What factors make Off Road Ability?

Thats exactly whats happening its stalls but sure i wanna for its still try to go forward. So thats why they puting those larger or better gearbox oil coolers in front main radiator at least on older foresters imprezas guys doing that here. Simple mods .
Mine raises engine temp pretty fast if im torturing it.
So thats why proper 4x4 cars doesnt have this problem and we do? For that torque converter?
Not necessarily because of the torque converter. It's because our torque converter transmissions, 4EAT, 5EAT and CVT, do not have a decent low-range or crawl ratio so when tackling obstacles, the speed may not be enough to lock the torque converter clutch so fluid drive is used. When fluid drive is used too much, the fluid overheats.

To mitigate the increase in temperature, according to many Subaru mechanics that I know, fully synthetic ATF is used. When on fluid drive and with fully-synthetic, the TCU detects the required torque figures earlier then locks up the clutch earlier. Fully-synthetic fluid also dissipates heat much better than semi- and breaks down much more slowly. The drawback is that shifting can be harsher and there will be a feeling of under-poweredness in the highway because the lockup occurs at much lower RPMs.

Another thing is to install an additional cooler but, as discussed here before, it will also affect the time it requires to get the transmission to operating temperature. It's more of getting the proper balance, really.

The ATF overheat is not only a Subaru thing. Any transmission with a torque converter can have the same issue. To be fair to Subaru, they have better cooling than most manufacturers of the same vehicle classes. Old XJs also burn their old ATF and if that happens, usually the whole transmission blows! The newer Ford Rangers also have transmission blowing in some conditions, mostly towing - pretty common here but drivers here are harsh to their trucks. Cheers.
 
@ABFoz How does locking the auto into low gear factor into this assessment?
The TCU detects the proper torque input a bit earlier and engages the torque converter clutch lock. It's not much but can still be felt. For example, on a 30-degree hump/obstacle, at 3 kph on first gear, on my previous fluid, I could step onto the gas, the RPM would go up and down but stays on the same speed. After the two drain and fills with the ATF-1A, I tried the same obstacle and approach, the TCC locked much earlier at ~1800 RPM (~2000RPM before) so I had to use a bit more momentum. So it's more of an advantage and a disadvantage at the same time. Advantage because I won't use fluid drive and disadvantage because now I have to use a bit more momentum on the same obstacle.

It can also be felt rather significantly in highways. I used to be able to get some fluid drive aid at 3rd gear at 2000 RPM. When I stepped on the gas pedal, on the uphill before our off-ramp, the RPM would climb to 2200 because of the fluid drive but now it just locks at 2000 RPM so if I don't do proper acceleration in the first and second gears, the uphill is much more difficult for the car. When it locks at 2000 RPM, it stays at 2000 RPM just like a manual gearbox.

I find the aggressive lockup very handy on dunes because I don't get to heat up the fluid when going up. In my last sand trip, the Forester went up the dunes at a rather slow speed and with its wheels spinning like driving a manual on sand.

I was told by my brother's friend in Japan that Subaru used to have the lockup based on RPM only but when they shifted to drive-by-wire or electronic throttle, torque input is measured in order for the TCC clutch to lock/release.

On the GG9 with the cable throttle. The lockup occurs at the same time even after the fully-synthetic drain-and-fill. Even without the lower/more aggressive lockup, I think the car still benefits with better heat dissipation from the fluid.


I hope I am making sense. The Japanese do introduce their technologies very quietly and subtly. Cheers.
 
Not necessarily because of the torque converter. It's because our torque converter transmissions, 4EAT, 5EAT and CVT, do not have a decent low-range or crawl ratio so when tackling obstacles, the speed may not be enough to lock the torque converter clutch so fluid drive is used. When fluid drive is used too much, the fluid overheats.

To mitigate the increase in temperature, according to many Subaru mechanics that I know, fully synthetic ATF is used. When on fluid drive and with fully-synthetic, the TCU detects the required torque figures earlier then locks up the clutch earlier. Fully-synthetic fluid also dissipates heat much better than semi- and breaks down much more slowly. The drawback is that shifting can be harsher and there will be a feeling of under-poweredness in the highway because the lockup occurs at much lower RPMs.

Another thing is to install an additional cooler but, as discussed here before, it will also affect the time it requires to get the transmission to operating temperature. It's more of getting the proper balance, really.

The ATF overheat is not only a Subaru thing. Any transmission with a torque converter can have the same issue. To be fair to Subaru, they have better cooling than most manufacturers of the same vehicle classes. Old XJs also burn their old ATF and if that happens, usually the whole transmission blows! The newer Ford Rangers also have transmission blowing in some conditions, mostly towing - pretty common here but drivers here are harsh to their trucks. Cheers.
does that mean i could help lest say my 5eat to work better by changing oil to fully synthetic as i think it was never changed in car though im not sure about that but probably.
but then on those newer cars there is programing how ECU commands 5eat to work and how it works compare to given comands . and why car can be in said limp mode though it can give no errors but its feels laggy not so much forward as backwards. But whos fault is it ? bad fuel system job from that ECU gives wrong commands to 5eat or its torque converter not sure how that works and from what input it gives what output there.
so manual would never be lagy or doing some weird stuff there it would just work or burn clutch but it would work until it can.
it seems simple but what really is problem here. i start car , i rev it , it revs fine now laging in reving no problems works almost fine on idle too, but then i put in reverse and maybe i have little obstacle in rear but i need to drive over it , and i drive to obstacle slowly and it just stops and doesnt move anymore. it doesnt reacts to my pedal comands its just stalls there on low revs and thats all... what causes that ? and why if i have no errors at that moment.
 
It depends on the market and the driver. Earlier North American CVT models have one less cooler making them prone to overheating when the driver tries to push through an obstacle at really low speeds at fluid drive. When any torque converter-equipped vehicle stalls and the driver still wants the vehicle to go forward with throttle input, he/she just overheats the fluid. The SK Foresters are reported to have the same number of coolers as international models but we have to check on that to make sure.

Has this been conclusively documented, @ABFoz? I thought only the Oz (and perhaps the NZ) market SKs had the extra CVT coolers, and were left out for the North American market. Is this implemented via a smaller radiator in front or behind the main radiator? I have a 2020 SK in the US, I can take a look and report back. Don't remember any mention of it in the manuals that came with the car (I will admit, I haven't read the reams of documents thoroughly).

I think only the higher trim Ascent (USDM market three-row SUV) and the Outback XT with the FA2.4 engine mated to high-torque CVTs had these coolers by default in the US market.
 
Merc AMG GLE just killing there all crossovers, but for $130k on summer city tires. i dont think on that test you need much tires anyway just good traction control and enough power

lada niva's vs jimny's
all knows jimnys but the more you see that lada niva the more its impress how capable it is for such price stock.
 
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does that mean i could help lest say my 5eat to work better by changing oil to fully synthetic as i think it was never changed in car though im not sure about that but probably.
but then on those newer cars there is programing how ECU commands 5eat to work and how it works compare to given comands . and why car can be in said limp mode though it can give no errors but its feels laggy not so much forward as backwards. But whos fault is it ? bad fuel system job from that ECU gives wrong commands to 5eat or its torque converter not sure how that works and from what input it gives what output there.
so manual would never be lagy or doing some weird stuff there it would just work or burn clutch but it would work until it can.
it seems simple but what really is problem here. i start car , i rev it , it revs fine now laging in reving no problems works almost fine on idle too, but then i put in reverse and maybe i have little obstacle in rear but i need to drive over it , and i drive to obstacle slowly and it just stops and doesnt move anymore. it doesnt reacts to my pedal comands its just stalls there on low revs and thats all... what causes that ? and why if i have no errors at that moment.
Hmmm. If the ATF hasn't been changed yet, doing a drain-and-fill or two may help. A full flush may give you problems. What is the colour of your ATF, at the moment?

Subaru of NZ recommends drain-and-fills every 30,000km with Motul ATF-1A or the similar Fuchs for 4EATs and 5EATs 3rd revision onwards, meaning after around 2003. My previous BP5 still has the service history from Japan and the owner had his ATF serviced at around 30,000km. This is why NZDM cars usually sell higher than JDM imports.

With CVTs it's 30,000km, as well, but with the genuine CVTF.

Please note that Kiwis are generally rough on their cars. JDM imports here are cheap, so there is that mentality that they can always replace their cars with a new import, so they drive them as hard as they can. It is actually better to buy a JDM import directly from Japan vs a JDM import from somebody who has already used the car here, unless of course, the person knows about Subarus because he/she would follow Subaru NZ's recommendations.

Has this been conclusively documented, @ABFoz? I thought only the Oz (and perhaps the NZ) market SKs had the extra CVT coolers, and were left out for the North American market. Is this implemented via a smaller radiator in front or behind the main radiator? I have a 2020 SK in the US, I can take a look and report back. Don't remember any mention of it in the manuals that came with the car (I will admit, I haven't read the reams of documents thoroughly).

I think only the higher trim Ascent (USDM market three-row SUV) and the Outback XT with the FA2.4 engine mated to high-torque CVTs had these coolers by default in the US market.
I don't have details of that at the moment, I have just been told by a mate I used to work with from Texas that he sees an extra cooler vs his 2017.

So we've got the following coolers in our NZDM and JDM CVT models. Please note that many JDM EZ36 models come with two of these. I was told that it is an extra one is an option in the Southern US but I can't confirm that.
1595970566500.png

This one is sometimes located in the front-right fender or sometimes NACA ducted at the front diffuser below the radiator. I don't know how effective this is but earlier CVT USDM models do not have this. Some users say that the ducting makes this really effective, if it's located below the radiator.
1595970592800.png

This passive cooler. There is supposed to be an NACA duct from the diffuser directing air to this.
1595970627500.png
 
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Thanks, I will take a closer look under the hood and report back.
 
OK, I took a look around my USDM SK's engine bay, and didn't find any additional cooling elements near the main radiator. Only one set of hoses to/from the engine, and 2 fans behind the radiator. Nothing obvious below the radiator either.

Couldn't easily see if there was a passive cooling element -- the plastic shroud below the engine and transmission hides that area well. Maybe a separate project to get this cover off and see if there is anything visible there.
 
Funnily enough, the coolers are not listed at partsouq. Maybe, they just produce them at a low volume or consider them as putrly auxilliaries.
 
can Porsche Cayenne do off road ? looks like it can no worse then audi, even better if its lifted and on larger MUD tires
later in video when patrol came and said ohh but i have more flex thats why i dont care about diagonals so much, maybe so , but i would never pick patrol instead that porsche, and no need that expencive car, older VW touraeg can do similar things with low gear and rear diff locker even and air suspension.
car owner said that he had no problems with those big tires on that car , he drove with them a lot in hard terrain and nothing yet brake.
car is on LPG as it drinks a lot with those tires , they said on off road like that 30-40l to 100km . but on lpg its still kinda ok.
at 11min time he took some water it was too deep. snorkel needed.
 
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I never seen a Cayenne or a Macan offroad before!
 
I never seen a Cayenne or a Macan offroad before!
Totally unrelated to the topic (who me?) But I saw my first BMW X3 Backpacker wagon the other day. Now that was a surprise!
 
I never seen a Cayenne or a Macan offroad before!
russians, polish guys off road on many cars that others wouldnt even think of , and those pretty capable , good off road system , nothing overheats , axles holds, looks great too. but you need those older models like from 2005 to do that proper, not newer models.
funny thing you can put same kind of spacers on air struts for them and with that they will still work on air suspension just will lift it much more. i allways thought air suspension is best for local off road . not for australia overlanders sure , but for others it would be perefect, make car low on highways and high in off road, have best things from both worlds.

3f19cddfafb060fd8af0e2eaf97b529d.jpg
 
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OMG! A Cayenne actually set up for off-roading.
I would swap all my Subarus for that.
:D
 
i think its surrounded by subarus in pic there is it not ? but yh you lift it and you used it full program. back then when they made real good cars capable not so much anymore. 1st gen caynenes becoming cheaper every year anyway. but same as 1st gen touaregs, those where beast too and cheaper. problem is how you fix it and for how much ... thats main reason i think. but if you dont count that then you go full on and make it full ON modded. that engine and power on cayenee must feel just great, in video he said he didint even used any low gear or lockers, with that power it was just going on normal modes and it was enough.
so yh people here pick foresters because they simple and cheap, old models. they pick that for money, but then again go try do valve job on 3.0 ez30 engine and see how much that will cost. i mean its just cosmic prices . and i use like same fuel now as some 4.0 pr even 4.7 l engine on grand sherokee would use. its so bad. omg i again drove just 68km with 20l of lpg ...68 not even 100km that would make it very bad 20l to 100km so not even that ... omg. yes in city but thats so bad . like so bad for your wallet. even if lpg is half petrol price its still so bad thats its not good car for travel at all. at this point its better just to travel with some diesel there. like audi or merc diesels.
in this month i drove like 3-4 times to see like 250km ther and back to sea and i spend so much money and those trips that my money had like ended. i didint even had that problem last year with my 2.5 VDC red 2001 outback....and that was using much fuel on high speeds. and here i thought i will get bettet with this newer car with more powerfull engine ... yh right... fuel mix too rich fuel usage too high ... thanks. thats what iv needed for 2-3 months of summer for me.
 
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Geez, even my 1968 Landcruiser would do about 16+L/100 kms. That was empty, no trailer, and after fitting decent carburettors - 2x 1.75 inch SUs from an Austin Kimberley.

The Kimberley had a 2.2L donk that did about 7000 rpm, and the Landcruiser had a 3.8L donk that did about 4000 rpm. So I used the same jetting and needles, and designed and made the inlet manifold myself. Worked exceptionally well!

Improved the fuel economy by over 1.5x to 3x (towing), and made a huge difference to the torque.

Things were much simpler 45 years ago ... ;).
 
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