What factors make Off Road Ability?

scalman said:
those new 2018 wranglers looks better on road and off it . its even higher from ground and have even lower gears . its just crawl champion .looks like a toy from side tho

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Oh I cannot argue prices. Cars in the US are probably cheaper than anywhere else. However, the new JL Wranglers cost real money. They are no longer something everyone can afford.

The JL has a lot of improvements over the JK, on and off road alike. There is nothing else like it on the market. I am very interested in the plug in hybrid 4 door that is expected in 2020.

If it can get me on electricity only around town, that would be a Wrangler I could live with!
 
They never cheap . used ones holds price just because name.like really old ones. On other hand grand sherokees are cheap. So i guess all goes for name and legend that surrounds it. Still by prices in us they cost about same as new subaru XV. Thats crazy
 
Actually, no, the XV Crosstrek starts at 22, while the 4dr JLU starts at 30. The outgoing model can be had for 30 after taxes, but you are talking no air condition, no anything. I am not sure if the JLU entry model has AC. It is 30 with soft top and practically no convenience features, etc.

A decently equipped JLU Sport S is at least 36k msrp. Subtract to invoice, add taxes and you are looking at about 38 actual price out the door. This is a lot of money for a highly specialized vehicle. But it sells due to image and also many people buy it for the no-top/no-doors experience, not for offroad. It is pure fun.

Basically, a decently equipped JLU Sport S is as costly as a top-of-the-line 6 cyl Outback with Eyesight active safety system, navigation, and DVD.
 
Here is a hilarious case of a stuck Prado-based 4Runner Trail in 5 inches of snow during a review, passed by an Outback while stuck. I wish the OB pulled it out...to complete the story!

https://hooniverse.com/2014/04/03/review-2014-toyota-4runner-trail/

In fairness, I have been in the same predicament with the B9 Tribeca. First time in snow. Street tires. Did not turn traction control off, coming from a 95 Legacy this was not on top of my mind. Had to dig around the tires. Haven't forgotten the TC off button since!

But yeah low center of gravity does help. As do proper tires.
 
good video how land cruiser with its famous traction control had problems in snow and how later forester just went there. weight sometimes means so much and momentum with right tires
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX1cDEqwlIg&t=87s"]Subaru Forester vs Toyota Land Cruiser - YouTube[/ame]
lots of factors can make one car stuck and other just pass it .

or this guy with standard 2nd gen outback no lift no nothing. normal tires. and some extra cool grand sherokee
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0vufG7y-Mg"]Off Road Test Subaru Outback vs Jeep Grand Cherokee vs Land Rover Discovery - YouTube[/ame]
bad driving off road can me even good car stuck, bad decisions and such.
subarus are truly amazing cars as they are. and then even better with better tires and using right approach for situations.
examples like those and others truly made me choose car that i chose. and i even think it is even better then some people show on videos.
same reasons why small suzuki samurai are so good offroad. they super light and even as they have open diffs they can go places . with some modifications they drive around those big 4wd's
one big bad choice people make for making they cars for offroad is putting lots stuff onto them to make them heavier. thats just killing all capabilitys.
 
And there I was thinking I had the only Subaru that could successfully negotiate mud on normal tyres........
 
Nah - they're goodyear ultra grip 500 winter tread. Definitely a chunkier tread than HTs.
 
This was my first time in mud, hence I didn't know what to do and lost momentum. I didn't think I was going to get the vehicle moving again on its own but then TheInterceptor gave me a quick run through on mud driving. Just a bit of turning the steering wheel back and forth and I got moving again then came out. Common knowledge among people who drive in mud, but completely different to sand driving. Traveling with and learning from experienced people is what makes offroad capability. And this was done with HTs.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i036bogvsa66wdw/Video 24-6-17, 14 47 37.mov?dl=0
 
The best thing i like about my Forester (or ant Subaru) off road is... that it punches outside its weight class.
 
temmah said:
that it punches outside its weight class.
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I reckon its weight has a fair bit of input into its punching ability..

:ebiggrin:
 
That's what I am thinking, too; and especially the low center of gravity.
 
Rally said:
And there I was thinking I had the only Subaru that could successfully negotiate mud on normal tyres........
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Well, nobody argued against a Subaru in mud on street tires. That was not the point of the discussion. AT tires are only marginally better in mud and only if quite aggressive (and you need wheel spin to clean them). Only a dedicated mud tire will have a massive advantage in mud.

It is worth noticing the Prado-derived 4R's utter failure in just a little snow, entirely due to the tires;)
 
russians testing Gelandevagen vs Lexus vs Cherokee vs Outback
Outback vs heavyweights going pretty good to those hills. Cherokee with locks would go anywhere but with open diffs not so much there.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRs7fByJTbo"]? ????? ?????!!!! ???? offroad ?????, ??????, ?????? ? ?????? - YouTube[/ame]
i mean if you have open diffs and no traction control why mod everything but locks. locks should go first thing
i think on hills subaru just need more power and 3.0 versions are way better to get more speed when needed , more power to ground . i would just stop at some places because not enough power i think.
 
My argument for some time. The grippiest tyre in the world has no grip when it is off the ground or severely unweighted. All the money spent on tyres and lift kits amount to nothing when you encounter typical off road situations like this.
 
but if one or 2 grippiest tires in air , still there is one or 2 that have grip and will make all difference there. even lockers with wrong tires will just spin in mud doing nothing. same goes for wrong rims as too large rims that are good for street but dont work offroad. people still doing it for fun but nobody showing videos when those tires or rims fail , brake, split , etc. you can have most baddiest 4wd but if you have 18' rims on low profile tires on it its failure instantly.
for me tires where like first thing. but because i got lift first i did it first, but tires was most important there. never regretting that i took most expensive AT ones out there.
saw lots of people doing nothing to they foresters out there just puting good AT tires and going offroad just stock. and doing great.
 
But those 2 that have grip must have drive to them, and if the other wheels are in the air the only way they will have drive is with a locked diff or a decent traction control system.
 
well yes you right. and best thing is when people understand what tires they have and how to best drive with them. less grippy then use a lot momentum and just go full pedal i guess. no lockers or traction control need momentum no other way to pass it . or find other line other angle maybe.
i think subaru of all other awd cars likes momentum m spin wheels and go forward doing it. still i like go everywhere as slow as i can and enjoy it. if it fails then i choose other approach. sometimes more crazy is the right one.
rally's car is now have so much choices how to approach things .

there was one guy here where i live with forester. old one ,no mods. no bumpers. he tried some forest roads with normal tires. because its normal tires you can lower psi or do much with them. he got stuck in places and cant go much forward. then after some time he bought new tires. same car just he put general grabbers on it. no other mods. almost stock forester with active awd. so he came back to same track . found same places he couldn't go last time, but because this time he lowered psi a lot he just went passed those places not so hard.
just tires and low psi can make miracles where you can go vs other guy who could have more power, lift and stuff but wrong tires and psi and he wont go nowhere.
 
Rally said:
But those 2 that have grip must have drive to them, and if the other wheels are in the air the only way they will have drive is with a locked diff or a decent traction control system.
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Practically no post-2007 4x4s sold in the US lack such a system. Even all Subarus got VDC in 2010.

I had my front right wheel in the air by a lot during a climb just a couple days ago and from what I can tell from the video it took precisely 2 sec for VDC to stop it and get the car through.

But I doubt I would have made the climb on street tires--or done it without excessive, dangerous speed. I have failed much milder stuff on street tires before (albeit in Tribeca, not OB).

Toyota offers a more aggressive version of its own active traction control system and no traditional lockers on the US Land Cruisers as well as the same system and a rear locker on 4Runner TRD.

The newer Subarus with x-mode also offer a more aggressive traction control than mine but they all come with CVTs, which is a whole different subject.

As we have said it many times, VDC works great in easy to moderate conditions. Beyond that you need something other than a Subaru in the first place. As for pre-VDC cars, sure, lockers will make a world of difference.
 
You dont need nothing more then subaru :)
 
russians allways know how to have proper fun in mud. and they come in such large groups of offroaders on different type of machines. so its nice to just see what they drive there and how

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk2d-7TfTBc"]Toyota Prado ? 20 ????????????? ????? ??????????. ???????. - YouTube[/ame]

in one video you can see so many different 4wd tpes. open diffs, locked , traction control, broken diffs lol
must have tool on those kinda tracks is
xilgaauliai-guminiai-batai-seastar.jpg.pagespeed.ic.yMLBRQTVPg.jpg


another good video why small suzuki jimny goes and pajero dont
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bkWlrCBsw4"]????? ???????. ???? ???? ????? ???? ??????. ??????? ???????, ???, ???? ? Suzuki - YouTube[/ame]

thats proper hardcore how that jimny goes so well amazing what light weight does

at least some recovery gear you must have even for not heavy cars as subarus. hi lift can help in lifting and pullling out situations
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