What factors make Off Road Ability?

Allways was curious what that secret vdc traction control does on subarus how and why. You cant see nothing while in car so its just one thing to do is to watch video later and learn. Shame that one camera just showing you one side.
Thats without limits its just spins wheels that can spin and sometimes that enough but not on this hill.and yes maybe i gave up too early could give it more time maybe it would move forward some
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this mode VDC Off is very funn indead. specially on my model as it have no limits and dont turning on again ever. for later models who have their own vdc switch it works some differently tho. didint give you all freedom and then later models turns on after some time . so as i made my switch myself it lets all power go wild as much as i will press it . still curious how it works. it must be better then active awd older systems as i have allready split 55/45 or similar and rear lsd and even some locking in center when using 1,2 gears. so its fun . must be fun going at speed on mud.
So then with VDC on lets try same hill at slow speed as i could crawl there just torturing my traction control there
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Thats more like it. Less chance to brake something or to wear tires . its just looking for that traction where it could find it.not enough tho to go up. Because i guess other side wheels were doing same too. Just not enough traction.its grass and fresh snow on top. In the end it cuts your power so no matter how much you press pedal it just does same . but its good strategy i eould say , maybe after time traction would appear somewhere.
 
When I installed the helicals I wanted to retrofit a VDC as well but it is quite a big work and nobody here wanted to do the job because it is part of the security/braking, and I understand that. Somehow, I asked Quaife about that and they assumed that traction control systems work very well with helical diffs. So the best option would be to find an SG with VDC and install all my goodies in it...
 
MiddleAgeSubie said:
This is a nice short overview of the various lockers available.

https://www.crawlpedia.com/locker_comparison.htm
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I disagree with some of what is written there. I don’t consider plated or torsen diffs to be locker diffs. To do so just creates confusion. They are limited slip diffs. Limited slip diffs do not lock. Yes, plated diffs do wear out, but to swap over (as I recently did) to a torsen diff will result in reduced off road ability. I found the torsen diff offered only a mild improvement over an open diff off road. My view is they probably work best on road, but even then are second best to a plated diff. It is interesting to note that Subaru put helical diffs in the rear of the wrx and plated diffs in the sti.
 
In case people don’t know, helical diff = torsen diff.
 
yes it is . i was reading something here and found that line ..
https://www.rallispec.com/dif_gls_rst1903_t.html
because the bias ratio is a multiple of the torque available at the low traction wheel, if the wheel is off the ground then no torque can be biased to the high traction wheel resulting in a total loss of forward traction from that end of the car. A clutch type LSD will lose some of its torque bias ratio as the clutch plates wear, however, it can be tuned to provide a very aggressive lock ratio.
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so helicals not good for offroad. and i guess they put plated diffs to sti for reasons.
 
and talking about offroad . Chinese Haval H9 its really good thing for about 43-50k for premium is just fraction of price from cruiser .
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premium models are even tuned by ironman in australia. have good traction control and even rear locker. and 2018 model is even better. just engine side ..hmm 2.0 turbo petrol only. it pushed for high power but with that its eating lots fuel.
its almost prado
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and i mean itt can go places
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those chinese ...they can make cubaru clones too haha

they did dakar too ...wow
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I think I will put off thinking of buying Chinese until they can sort out their quality, reliability, handling and crash protection issues.
 
that's why we love subaru. i means specially for me cost for maintenance was most important thing. and its not so much problems so far . not too much electronics , i need them for comfort but not too much. and its crazy how cheap older subarus are. in my country foresters cheap only older models NA 2.0 models. then price jumps for no reasons. outback same year about from 2000-2004 here are cheaper with better comfort and stability controls. so i went for it mainly for that reason. i remember i was just watching and watching tons videos how impreza or forester or outback does offroad or just travels around. and i was just shocked how good they are for being so cheap. then i read forums how tuff they are how forgiving and how low cost maintenance there is compare to other cars, even german famous ones. in my country you drive diesel audi /VW , or you drive LPG. now i look at those all cars on road and thinking : poor *******s , what would you do if you slide to side or if its snowing heavily or raining.
i like my car best in snow or just any bad weather really. then i wanna go like to near forest and see how its there. not drive in city , really its just boring. im still very carefull with that because i drive alone car so noone to help me if i stuck somewhere , so i no go blindly forward yet...and im fixing my rust still and making it more sealed from water mud and stuff. so later i could go more harder on it . and will test more harder.
i read people talk about VDC is not for offroad , you no need it , you just need momentum to go to places. well yes you do with older subarus. and by going fast you will bend or brake something or just push hard on some parts. and i love to go slooow. ok so its lots of mud. ..no worries just go slow..see it goes forward. i love that feeling when car just goes. and no need to big wheels as then you loosing power from engine. specially when you lack of it with 2.5 NA engine. so you need all of it not wasting it with larger tires.

i mean thats looks awesome
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and what car you would take to smash some zombies ? ..
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Good points, Scalman, it is all a balancing act.
 
Kevin said:
Better take the Subie - at least it will get you home! :iconwink:
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C'mon, it is not THAT bad;). 2007-11 had more problems, but pre-2007 and since 2012 have been alright. Not Toyota-like but okay.
 
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But there can not be combo .subie handles like normal car and 4wd handles just like 4wd. And subie on road handles even better then most cars. It doesnt feel offroadish even with lifts . but what it can do is amazing.
 
scalman said:
But there can not be combo .subie handles like normal car and 4wd handles just like 4wd. And subie on road handles even better then most cars. It doesnt feel offroadish even with lifts . but what it can do is amazing.
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Oh they can make a great combo in my garage. And the Tribeca can move to the street:lol:
 
MiddleAgeSubie said:
C'mon, it is not THAT bad;). 2007-11 had more problems
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Yes indeed my son's Wrangler in that year range was that bad! Purchased new and even broke down on the way home! That was just the beginning.
 
Kevin said:
Yes indeed my son's Wrangler in that year range was that bad! Purchased new and even broke down on the way home! That was just the beginning.
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I know. You have said that. Even the Pentastar V6 has not been problem free. Google left side cylinder head issues. But, on the whole, they are okay.

We will see the new ones. More engine choices on the horizon!
 
those new 2018 wranglers looks better on road and off it . its even higher from ground and have even lower gears . its just crawl champion .looks like a toy from side tho
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and they as allways pretty cheap for basic models out in US
and they must be very good for local offroading if not one of best out there. for offroading i mean because its light it would just go pass all those heavy 4wd trucks. same as subaru does. even if its deep mud , subies would not sink so fast as heavy brothers and would just go forward.

and about what makes off roading best thats maybe the answer. good old Patrol its just monster with right mods
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-XfzKc0RsA"]? Nissan Patrol & Mitsubishi Pajero in MUD [Off-Road 4x4] - YouTube[/ame]
tho inside of it i wouldnt want to be too long. for local drive only . those Polish just love their patrols, same as russians or us lithuanians too. we just love deep mud , sand , water, and go nuts.
but why i hate those older 4wd who basicly are just 2wd all times and just 4wd when you need it . because whats the point then ? i want have security too on road. nut just put 4wd on bad road. it could be too late when you get stuck . i like all time 4wd systems on newer cars. or as older grand cherokee has too.
i mean what would happen if you drive big high lifted heavy 4wd with 2wd mode on good road but suddenly you having something bad on road or you slide or smt ..and on this moment you just have rear 2wd . thats worse thing ever. you are done allready, nothing you could do about it. so new cars understood that and they making now most cars all time 4wd as it should be.
for me most interesting what default cars can do off road. not what they made to do with tons modifications. yh you can lift it and put better tires but thats it. then will see how they perform. and if you need lockers on 4wd car to go anywere then car is just not worth it.
 
scalman said:
i read people talk about VDC is not for offroad , you no need it , you just need momentum to go to places. well yes you do with older subarus. and by going fast you will bend or brake something or just push hard on some parts. and i love to go slooow. ok so its lots of mud. ..no worries just go slow..see it goes forward.
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There are surfaces and steepness grades where momentum is a necessity. On soft and deep sand such as some of the sand dunes we get here in Australia most people switch off VDC as it hinders momentum. An example is the Big Red dune in the Simpson. Here are some Subarus having fun on it. Watch their wheels, VDC wouldn't help at all in this situation. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=big+red+subaru

I believe that for climbing dunes you need a constant feed of power to all 4 wheels and that by braking any of these wheels forward energy is wasted. Furthermore VDC can't react fast enough yet to accurately provide perfect torque vectoring in situations like this.

Interestingly I should mention how good Subaru LSDs are. A few months back, I blew a CV while on holidays. I had to drive several hundred km to the repair shop - all on 3 wheel drive with one shaft hanging. I was surprised how much power that one remaining wheel could transmit. Sure if I tried to use too much power there was a bit of slippage, but I was able to drive sensibly and not slip at all.
 
Tweaksta said:
Interestingly I should mention how good Subaru LSDs are. A few months back, I blew a CV while on holidays. I had to drive several hundred km to the repair shop - all on 3 wheel drive with one shaft hanging. I was surprised how much power that one remaining wheel could transmit. Sure if I tried to use too much power there was a bit of slippage, but I was able to drive sensibly and not slip at all.
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And you didn't cook the center nor the rear LSD's ?
 
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