Ratbag's 2006 Fox XS - Roo2

Gidday Folks

Guess I should start a journal. Seems a goodly system of keeping this stuff organised ... :lol:.

Anyway, I have fitted the OEM roof bars and Rola basket to Roo2 in the last couple of days.

Took it for a spin into town today on the Nepean Highway.

From about 70 km/h, it started to purr.

By about 80 km/h, the purr had become a more of a roar ... .

This will drive me NUTS, in short order ... Fortunately, it is my intention to fit the basket to the lid on my rebuilt trailer, where it should be out of the wind, and the noise should be well behind me ....

Will keep you posted about all this ... :iconwink:

 

[mr turbo]

I am not prepared to waste my life getting up to 60 kmh ...

I hear you mate :ebiggrin:

Besides, it doesn't seem to matter how I drive it, the mileage remains much the same doing short trips to the bank, chemist, supermarket and such like - always between about 12.4 and 12.7.

I know what you mean.
Whether I drive it conservatively or drive it like I stole it, there's not much of a difference in it's economy. Maybe 0.3ltr/100km's if that. But thats for city driving

One thing I have noticed though, is when I drop the cruse control setting from 111km/h to 108km/h on the fwy, my economy is improved by 1.2ltr-1.3ltr/100km :biggrin:

When I finally get to drive it to Adelaide sometime in the next month or so, it will be interesting to see what it does on a "real" open road trip.

You'll have to let us know how it goes :iconwink:

Regards
Mr Turbo

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday Mr T

I hear you mate :ebiggrin:


I know what you mean.
Whether I drive it conservatively or drive it like I stole it, there's not much of a difference in it's economy. Maybe 0.3ltr/100km's if that. But thats for city driving

That's also what I found with the Impreza. Only two things really knocked its economy around in the city: 1) running the air-con in heavy, stop-start traffic dropped it by around 1 L/100 kms (but not otherwise ... ?); and 2) the introduction of the "speed limits of many colours" - 40 and 50 zones - by our previous control-freak government. I cannot think of any car that runs efficiently at these speeds; and accelerating and braking at these speeds is guaranteed to guzzle gas, big-time!

The putative reason for these speed limits was to protect children ... I couldn't agree more with its intent ...
However, in the first year of operation, the number of kids killed on the roads near schools went up marginally ... AFAIK, there has been no statistically significant increase or decrease in child deaths near schools since the expenditure of many, many millions of dollars on this "initiative" (read "headline grabbing sensationalism", maybe?).

What it has achieved is the destruction of any remaining vestiges of traffic flow that remained in Melbourne at these peak times ...

It also caused my average fuel consumption in Roo1 to increase by around 1.5 L/100 kms - roughly a 16% increase. Great idea ...

One thing I have noticed though, is when I drop the cruse control setting from 111km/h to 108km/h on the fwy, my economy is improved by 1.2ltr-1.3ltr/100km :biggrin:

Now that is interesting. When on the open road, I tend to set the "cruise control" (my right foot ... :rotfl on about 10 km/h over the speed limit. Within braking or slowing distance of it, and not too much damage to the hip pocket if one does get done for it. Mainly, no automatic loss of licence - while still allowing one to get from A to B in a rational amount of time; and also keeps one's attention focused on driving, rather than sight-seeing ....

You'll have to let us know how it goes :iconwink:

Regards
Mr Turbo

I will be sure to :lol:.

 

[mr turbo]

One thing I have noticed though, is when I drop the cruse control setting from 111km/h to 108km/h on the fwy, my economy is improved by 1.2ltr-1.3ltr/100km :biggrin:

Now that is interesting.

I have a feeling it's to do with what the rpm's are, as that is roughly when the boost cuts in & takes over

I just can't remember what the exact rpm's are (at those speeds) at the moment.
However, next time I'm on the fwy, I'll make a note of what they are, if I remember :iconwink: & let you know

Regards
Mr Turbo

 

[Ratbag]

I reckon that you are right on the money there, mate.

If the cruise control is wavering from one side of the turbo cut in/cut out revs to the other, it may well have caused your car to hit the fuel like an alcoholic at a free booze up ...

It's still an interesting observation .

You might find that if you set it to (say) 113 km/h, the fuel use drops to normal again. It may well be the straddling of the turbo point that causes the problem.

I will look forward to your further observations ... :biggrin:

 

[mr turbo]

I might just have to try that one too mate.
I'll be traveling on the F3 in a couple of weeks time for our annual golfing day. I should be able to test the theories out then

Regards
Mr Turbo

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday Mr T

Did you get any sort of result from your test of the cruise control setting, mate?

Interestingly, petrol has dropped to a rational price here just recently, so filled up the 2x 10L jerry cans I had to put into SWMBO's SH to keep it alive.

Even though I only had 84 Kms on Roo2, filled it at the same time, as all very short trips to the shops etc; not even on an 80 km/h arterial road. It had used 9L, so 10.71 L/100 kms. This is about my best ever around the suburbs.
Maybe I am finally getting the hang of the electronic throttle?

 

[mr turbo]

Did you get any sort of result from your test of the cruise control setting, mate?

I did remember, but unfortunately, due to the traffic conditions, didn't get any good data (or enough anyway) to work with to give any true readings

One thing I have noticed & truth be told, I'm a little disappointed with, is that since I had "that service" performed, my economy has not changed for the better
If anything, it has gone up by around 0.5lts - 0.7lts /100km's

Regards
Mr Turbo

 

[Ratbag]

Well, Roo2 went in for its 125,000 kms service a bit early last Monday (6th Jan 14). It has a tad over 110,000 kms on the clock, but just on 8 years since its build date ... I reckon that I was starting to push my luck with the timing belt ...

The alternator/power steering belt was split into two halves lengthwise, but still both halves hanging in there! Figured that this was a signal about the belts generally.

Now, it was Ross's first day back after the holiday break ... So things didn't go quite according to plan - no surprise there! After all, there are always people who show up on his doorstep with an SH Fox that needs a complete brake job immediately, or some such ... :iconwink: :lol:. Ross is very accommodating about fitting in real emergency jobs.

Anyway, Roo2 wasn't ready on Monday, but I told him that it wasn't a problem - no worries.

Today I got a call from Ross this arvo - the radiator core fins were damaged. The radiator held pressure OK. The mechanic doing the job had noticed it going back in, and brought it to Ross's attention (the standard protocol there). Ross reckoned it is recent, though his mechanic couldn't recall anything that could have caused it. He's not happy putting it back in the car ("better to put in a new radiator than a new engine" ... ).

He voluntarily stated that he will wear the cost, regardless of how it occurred.

The bottom line is that Roo2 won't be coming home until tomorrow. Ah well, poop happens ... .

Nice to have a new radiator, I guess. Wouldn't have wished it on Ross though.

But bloody hell, I didn't realise that the NGK platinum plugs are $26 EACH! It works out a lot cheaper than standard plugs replaced every 12,500 kms, but it will jump the overall cost somewhat.

The fully synthetic Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 will also boost it up a bit. Worth it's weight in gold! 24 months since the last service (10,000 kms ago), and the oil was still (relatively) clean and felt OK between my fingers. No way would mineral oil have lasted as well as that!!

Hopefully the tensioners and water pump were OK. I told Ross that I trusted his professional opinion absolutely as to whether he thought any of them should be replaced. They should manage 200,000 kms IME with Roo1.

The big services are always a killer!

Will report in tomorrow about the all up cost, and what ended up being done.

 

[idw]

Good to hear it went well, besides the new radiator but hey it's a new radiator.

Interesting the difference you've found from fully vs. semi synth. I haven't found any difference at all besides cost, but my foz does a bit more work (engine service somewhere between 2-4 times a year) it all go's in golden and comes out black.

My water pump is still going strong (fingers crossed heading for 250k atm) , but the 200k service did need tensioner and bearings. So i wouldn't worry about the water pump too much, I might if it was a series II sf or series I sg people seem to report pump failure with them more often. The local tuning shop was saying something about them having a different impeller design and gasket material not sure how true that is.

Good to hear everything went well. The platinum plugs are great in the 150k I owned my last falcon it didn't come up as a service item, miss my falcon the el used to give xr fgs a run for their money.

an extra day for a radiator isn't too bad. easy for things to get damaged in work shops even if no one notices.

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday Id

Good to hear it went well, besides the new radiator but hey it's a new radiator.

Ross is putting new radiator hoses on as well. OEM. The after-market ones he got didn't fit properly ...

All the serviceable bits will go into my parts bag to take bush with me. Better to have a suspect part than one that's cactus!!

Interesting the difference you've found from fully vs. semi synth. I haven't found any difference at all besides cost, but my foz does a bit more work (engine service somewhere between 2-4 times a year) it all go's in golden and comes out black.

Which FS did you use, mate?
Brighton Holden supposedly put FS in SWMBO's SH, and it's very nearly black after a year and around 8,000 kms.
Ross put Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 (FS) in Roo2. At 24 months and 10,000 kms, it was somewhat more orange coloured than blackish ... Sort of orange-brown.

The "latest and greatest" cars have an oil change computer in them that measures the characteristics of the oil and recommends when it needs changing. I noticed some of the people with these running FS oil were reporting 20,000+ kms and over 20 months before this occurred. Very interesting.

My water pump is still going strong (fingers crossed heading for 250k atm) , but the 200k service did need tensioner and bearings. So i wouldn't worry about the water pump too much, I might if it was a series II sf or series I sg people seem to report pump failure with them more often. The local tuning shop was saying something about them having a different impeller design and gasket material not sure how true that is.

I still have the one removed from Roo1. It's built like a brick outhouse. It was also rattling away like crazy for about 65,000 kms before it was replaced. Didn't seem to hurt anything ...

Good to hear everything went well. The platinum plugs are great in the 150k I owned my last falcon it didn't come up as a service item, miss my falcon the el used to give xr fgs a run for their money.

Yeah. It is just sticker shock. $106 for plugs seems like a lot, but when one multiplies the cost of a set of ordinary NGKs by 5 changes, it still works out cheaper, without the labour cost of the extra plug changes.

an extra day for a radiator isn't too bad. easy for things to get damaged in work shops even if no one notices.

Ross is VERY particular about this sort of thing ... No "blind eyes" in his workshop.
Honesty and integrity are beyond price, IMNSHO ...

 

[idw]

Shell Helix fs, and penrite fs, I just used what ever ss 10w40 is on sale at the time now. Black oil is good in a way means it's taking the sludge out of the engine at least.

 

[Ratbag]

^ Dunno about the black oil bit.

The whole purpose of the FS oils is that they hold particulates in suspension better than the SS or mineral oils do.
They also don't go off in around six months the way mineral oil does, from both natural breakdown of the long-chain molecules and breakdown caused by petrol and exhaust gas absorption. i.e. the FS is "tougher" than either SS or mineral oils.

For these reasons, the FS oils lubricate better, and don't either emulsify or sludge the way (particularly) mineral oils do.

I only ever ran mineral oils in Roo1, and the EJ-18 engine in it appeared to be as good as the day it was made 18 years and 234,000 kms earlier. It was a bit sluggish, but the standard NGK plugs had been in it for about 100,000 kms! Changing them probably would have perked it up a bit ... :lol: :rotfl:.

BTW, one has to be a bit careful with the way Shell labels their oils. It is very easy to buy a SS or mineral oil when what one is actually after is a FS oil. Often the only difference is the "fine print" on the label! I'm sure you are well aware of this, but others may not be.

I have only learned about the differences between FS, SS and mineral oil since becoming involved in this and other car forums. Interesting stuff.
I can attest to the superiority of the Shell Helix Ultra FS from my own experience now. It doesn't bother me if it does nothing at all for the fuel economy - it's worth every cent for me because I don't have the change the oil every six months; i.e. about every 2,500 kms!!

Basically, I have never before had an oil go for 24 months and still be identifiably orange! Nor for 10,000 kms, for that matter.

The oil in our SH is pretty close to black now. Methinks I will buy a carton of the Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 and a new filter and do an oil change myself. That'll be the first time in a very long time :iconwink: :ebiggrin:!
It's only due for a minor service, and Ross checked everything else when he did the brakes recently. He always does .

 

[mr turbo]

But bloody hell, I didn't realise that the NGK platinum plugs are $26 EACH!

You're not wrong, they don't come cheap

It is just sticker shock. $106 for plugs seems like a lot, but when one multiplies the cost of a set of ordinary NGKs by 5 changes, it still works out cheaper, without the labour cost of the extra plug changes.

But like you say, if you average the cost out (over the time) it's not too bad, once you do the sums & think about it

Ross is putting new radiator hoses on as well. OEM.

Thats a good call & something I should've done but didn't do when I replaced my radiator
Another thing that was suggested to me when replacing the radiator, was to also replace the radiator cap with a new one aswell :iconwink:
Thats something else I didn't do, but so far, so good. Touch wood.

I'm sure if something was going to happen, it would've happened by now, especially as it was changed just under 2 years (21mths) ago :biggrin:

Regards
Mr Turbo

 

[my04tone]

I have had 2 sets of NGK Iridium plugs on in 100,000k, they didnt really need changing at 75000k, i just thought what the heck get a new set in.

I did use Mobil1 synth for ages (since my 1st oil change) then changed to Nulon Synth at about 75000k, a slightly better fuel consumption on the Nulon and i dont think the motor is as chattery as it used to be. I drop my oils pretty much right on the k's required, but the syth does allow me to run overtime if need be without worrying about it breaking down in its structure like Dino oil does.

 

[Ratbag]

^ ^ Gidday Mr T

Roo1 never had the radiator cap replaced ...
My motto is: If it ain't broke, don't fix it ...

Same goes for batteries. The OEM one in Roo1 lasted about 7.5 years. Well above what we are led to believe is the 'average'. The last one was its replacement ... i.e. around 10 y.o.! OTOH, I don't buy cheap, nasty batteries (or expensive nasty batteries, either :iconwink.

I think that Ross has replaced the radiator hoses because of what happened to the core. The car is ready for pickup, so will go fetch when SWMBO gets home.

It is easy to spend a lot of dough trying to keep a car in 'as new' condition. I only replace parts that are failing, or have failed, or that there is a high likelihood of failing catastrophically. Otherwise, I fix it when and if it breaks.

& Gidday Tony

The fully synthetic oils give one a very robust buffer zone, particularly for old farts like me who don't do a lot of miles each year.

I have kept a close eye on both the oil level and its condition for the last 18 months, and have been amazed at how it has stood up! If it were not for the worry about the timing belt, I would have been happy to leave the service for another couple of thousand kilometres.

When I used to use my car a lot (for business), the oil started to look very gungey by the 6 month/12,000 km mark.

 

[Ratbag]

My credit card hates me ... .

$939.80 was the total of the service. He did the full 125,000 km service, plus carefully inspected the whole car. He reckons that it is in absolutely excellent condition.

The big ticket items were the plugs ($104), Shell Helix Ultra FS 5W-40 (4L $60), timing belt ($145.25), two OEM radiator hoses ($40 each) and the two drive belts ($26.50 & $28.10). Of course, Ross didn't charge me for the new radiator. He did show me the replaced one. I agreed that there is just no way of knowing whether the metal core tubing was a micron thick, or full thickness. The core tubing was flattened and deformed. I wouldn't have put it back in the car either!

The replaced timing belt looks to be in perfect condition. No signs of any kind of abrasion or wear. Certainly good to have a spare if the new one should ever break, leaving the engine OK, but needing a new timing belt ...

Kept the old parts. Never know when a somewhat defective spare is better than no spare at all ... :iconwink:.

Now for the interesting part.

I immediately noticed that the car drives smoother; and the engine is idling smoother, with less noise. I thought - Am I imagining this?
As I drove home it became abundantly obvious that I wasn't.

I have read quite a number of reports that the second fill with FS oil shows a noticeable improvement in fuel economy and the smoothness of the engine. I can't say that this is the cause, but the car sure feels and sounds smoother.

Anyway, I was expecting this to cost around a grand. So a bit less than I was expecting, for a bit more work and bits.

According to Ross, the idler pulleys/tensioners and water pump were perfect. So replacing them all is a joy to look forward to at the 250K km service (at about 235K kms, or whatever ... )!

 

[mr turbo]

By the sounds of it, it was a well done job & a job done well
On top of that, you got out of it for a good price too

Regards
Mr Turbo

 

[guzzla]

Interesting observations about the oils re. full synthetic v semi synthetic.

My XT now has 249,000km on it and has always had the 5w-30 Subaru Castrol full synthetic (Castrol Edge Sport apparently) and has never used any, never ever needing top ups, always changed every 12,500km and always turns black very quickly. Our other car until recently passed on to my youngest brother was a V6 Camry with 352,000km when I gave it up. It had always had Castrol Magnatec 10w-40 semi synthetic, changed every 10,000km, never ever used a drop and always stayed quite yellow looking right to the end of each oil change. Yet the same stuff in my daughter's Corolla turns quite black. Be interesting to get an oil analysis done on all 3 cars.

re the 125,000km service. Mine was done at my usual service dealer, Wippells VW/Subaru and had just the oil/filter and timing belt changed. $754. The spark plugs were done at the scheduled 112,500km service. The top & bottom radiator hoses were done at the 187,500km service. I'm very soon about to get the real big one - the 250,000km. Along with the engine, gearbox, diff oils, coolant, brake fluid & spark plug and the timing belt changes I am wondering if I should insist on the water pump, cam belt tensioner, pulleys and ancillary belts being changed. All of these are the originals. Cheap insurance don't you reckon? The engine is as sweet, smooth and quiet as it's ever been. I'm dreading the bill. I'm not using the Forester as much now we have the new Golf. Has taken us 7 months to get up the last 10,000km where at one stage I did 13,500km in 16 days. And all of that was with our camper trailer behind. The Wippells service guy nearly freaked out when I came back 2 weeks later for another service.

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday Mr T

By the sounds of it, it was a well done job & a job done well
On top of that, you got out of it for a good price too

Yeah, mate. Take out the ~$140 for new belts/hoses and the $104 for the new plugs, and the total cost was around $700. Pretty reasonable for the 125K kms service IMO.

Gidday Guzzla

Sorry I haven't replied to your other post, just that time and other commitments took precedence.

Interesting observations about the oils re. full synthetic v semi synthetic.

My XT now has 249,000km on it and has always had the 5w-30 Subaru Castrol full synthetic (Castrol Edge Sport apparently) and has never used any, never ever needing top ups, always changed every 12,500km and always turns black very quickly.

Maybe that's either a turbo vs N/A difference? Or maybe just the oil formulation is different? Interesting observation, in any event.

Our other car until recently passed on to my youngest brother was a V6 Camry with 352,000km when I gave it up. It had always had Castrol Magnatec 10w-40 semi synthetic, changed every 10,000km, never ever used a drop and always stayed quite yellow looking right to the end of each oil change. Yet the same stuff in my daughter's Corolla turns quite black. Be interesting to get an oil analysis done on all 3 cars.

It would indeed. This adds weight to the idea that different engines (even from the same maker) have different characteristics in this regard.

However, with our SG and SH, both have the EJ-253 donk, so I would expect them both to react the same way, if using the same brand/grade of oil. It may simply be that the oil in the SH is a different brand (or a different grade), and thus reacts differently. I will use the Shell Helix Ultra FS 5W-40 in it from the next oil change and see what happens. I prefer to be able to see the oil degrading gracefully :iconwink:. SWMBO does more miles than I do, but it is still nothing like what we each did when we were younger.

re the 125,000km service. Mine was done at my usual service dealer, Wippells VW/Subaru and had just the oil/filter and timing belt changed. $754. The spark plugs were done at the scheduled 112,500km service. The top & bottom radiator hoses were done at the 187,500km service. I'm very soon about to get the real big one - the 250,000km. Along with the engine, gearbox, diff oils, coolant, brake fluid & spark plug and the timing belt changes I am wondering if I should insist on the water pump, cam belt tensioner, pulleys and ancillary belts being changed. All of these are the originals. Cheap insurance don't you reckon?

Ross and I discussed this yesterday. He reckons that they will all need to be done next time around. I was very surprised to see that the old timing belt out of Roo2 still looks like new! One of the other two belts was cactus, and may as well change the a/c belt while the front of the engine was fully exposed. I am surprised that people say that access to the plugs is difficult on these engines. It was far harder to get at the plugs on Roo1 (EJ-18). Lower down in the frame, I think.

The engine is as sweet, smooth and quiet as it's ever been. I'm dreading the bill. I'm not using the Forester as much now we have the new Golf. Has taken us 7 months to get up the last 10,000km where at one stage I did 13,500km in 16 days. And all of that was with our camper trailer behind. The Wippells service guy nearly freaked out when I came back 2 weeks later for another service.

I can imagine!

Strangely enough, Roo2 was sold and serviced by Wippells from new up until when I bought it (from a Victorian dealer!!). From their last service until when I bought it, it had travelled only about 1,500-2,000 kms in a year. There's a story in that, I reckon. Maybe a deceased estate? Anyway, I had Ross do an intermediate service on it just after I bought it. That's when the FS oil went in. I rang Wippells to check the car's provenance and service history prior to final commitment to buy.

I reckon that with tensioner, pulleys and water pump thrown in, it should only add about $400 to the tab for your 250K kms service. Depends on the condition of your turbo too, I guess. I understand they can be fearsomely expensive to repair/replace. In the States, they cost around US$1,700 for the part! Ugly if that goes.

 

[mr turbo]

I reckon that with tensioner, pulleys and water pump thrown in, it should only add about $400 to the tab for your 250K kms service. Depends on the condition of your turbo too, I guess. I understand they can be fearsomely expensive to repair/replace. In the States, they cost around US$1,700 for the part! Ugly if that goes.

You're fairly close mate, but it's actually a little higher than that.
I just looked at what mine were & they came in at around $466.
Thats $337 for the pulleys & tensioner & $129 for the water pump.

As for the price to replace/repair the turbo I don't know.
However, if they are in & around that kind of money, I just hope mine doesn't go bang anytime soon.

Regards
Mr Turbo