What factors make Off Road Ability?

deflating tires works for everyone there. and its free. it can work better then lockers on snow/sand. so its good first to learn those free tricks .
 
Definitely need to air down. It’s pretty obvious but a tyre that is in the air or not receiving drive no matter how good it is or how expensive it is is useless.
 
[MENTION=16269]Dirt Trek[/MENTION] you did well in the first bit of the video (sorry, I didn't get a chance to watch the whole thing). You did exactly what you're meant to climbing that hill, ie, stayed on the throttle & waited for the electronics to catch up. Some people back off there but you shouldn't

CVTs are well known for stalling on steep climbs. I think with repeated offroad use like that, you would need to do more frequent CVT fluid changes. Note that this is a very specialised oil, AFAIK there are 3 different oils used in Subaru CVTs, so best getting it done at a dealership, unless your mechanic is a Subaru specialist with dealership training
 
That explains a lot, knew about staying on the throttle just from experience, but in the second video we "killed" the car on a long steep hill. Probably the cvt cutting out. Was climbing hills all day and ended having to switch to manual to get out because it was bogging the motor down. Thank you so much! That makes so much sense now!
 
scalman said:
deflating tires works for everyone there. and its free. it can work better then lockers on snow/sand. so its good first to learn those free tricks .
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Yeah don't want to go too low on those street tires I have, pretty cheap, don't even trust them with air in them lol
 
Beachworm said:
ABfoz - Thanks for this great information. Using authoritative and knowledgeable sources is very helpful and reduces speculation. Well done.
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Thanks and welcome.I think Subaru did a really good job putting chain instead of the Van Doorne which slips a lot.The more I dig into this, the more I am understanding that it is technically a robust system and that the failures are just related to overuse/overhat causing loss of hydraulic pressure and chain belt slippage, not changing the fluidat all, a faulty secondary oil pressure sensor, CVT oil pump gasket leaks and the most common, wrong oil grade/conditioners.
Rally said:
In the off road conditions where the slippage occurs, when the car is stationary and full throttle is applied although maybe not achieved, how much is torque converter slippage and how much is belt slippage? It’s not something a rally car will experience, it’s mostly off road conditions.
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The chain belt used by Subaru eliminates the slip during normal use and under GVM within the torque threshold of the transmission. Based on my current gathered official data from North America, in off-road conditions, the belt will only start to slip when the fluid overheats then the TCU will go into limp mode. It would be nice to have a separate module to actively monitor CVT fluid temperature, rather than just a blinking light on the dashboard telling the user that the fluid is already too hot. Cheers.
 
So based on the video, are we looking at torque converter slippage or an already overheated gearbox? And is the ecu kicking in too limit throttle percentage?
 
I would say that the stalling on the part where a wrong line was chosen is a function of torque converter slippage and an algorithm with a loop that searches for the correct gear ratio, where the cones would move forward and back, the computers would check whether there is enough traction or movement and while doing so, the throttle input is minimised. When the computers determine the correct ratio, throttle input is increased and the car moves forward. It may take quite a while but instructors during marketing events always say to trust the system and, as long has the car has two wheels on the ground, it will move forward. It just heats up the fluid excessively which is probably why @Dirt Trek experienced what he did on the post below.

If the transmission is in Manual mode, it will lock it to a certain virtual ratio, bypassing the algorithm, as noticed by some of the CVT Subaruers. Cheers.
 
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Rally said:
So based on the video, are we looking at torque converter slippage or an already overheated gearbox? And is the ecu kicking in too limit throttle percentage?
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In the second video It definitely got hot, plus we were pulling hills all day and I think that the hill it stopped on over loaded the system. Too hot, too steep, and had traction control on so that was also holding the car back. System knew it wasn't happy and lit up the dash. Trans, abs, TC, and several other systems weren't functioning properly but by time we got it down the hill some turned back on but I had to control the car manually because the trans was stalling the engine. After letting it sit for a while, once back in town, all lights turned off and it ran great.
 
Which brings us back to my test track, and seeing if a cvt equipped car can get up the hill without creating an open cut mine in the process.
 
Dirt Trek said:
In the second video It definitely got hot, plus we were pulling hills all day and I think that the hill it stopped on over loaded the system. Too hot, too steep, and had traction control on so that was also holding the car back. System knew it wasn't happy and lit up the dash. Trans, abs, TC, and several other systems weren't functioning properly but by time we got it down the hill some turned back on but I had to control the car manually because the trans was stalling the engine. After letting it sit for a while, once back in town, all lights turned off and it ran great.
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This is a good first-hand info. That is the limp mode we have been talking about and it is designed to protect the gearbox from damage as with the overheated oil, there is excessive pressure in the system. How long did it take you to reach limp mode? Cheers.
 
Limp modes are good as they save car and save your money. Same as traction control will never brake axle or diff because its not locking anything.
But if car goes into limp too often then you pushing it too hard its not made for that.
 
ABFoz said:
This is a good first-hand info. That is the limp mode we have been talking about and it is designed to protect the gearbox from damage as with the overheated oil, there is excessive pressure in the system. How long did it take you to reach limp mode? Cheers.
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Well we ran the car pretty much non stop up steep and not easy terrain for about 6 hours that day total. I'd say it cut out about 3.5 to 4 hours in. Only down time it had was for a couple minutes every hour or so (if even that much) after "mayday" hill we ran it up 2 or 3 more steep hills and through some off camber areas to get back to the main road so the system was getting a work out before and after it entered limp mode. Like I said before it had gotten hot (no indication on the dash but we could smell it) but the major hill climbs put us in an open area where a cold wind was blowing so I think that may have helped it cool quite a bit. Either way, 4 hours of hill climbs and constant traction control, I think the car held up pretty good. The run I did yesterday I was pushing hard but not as long, hardly any hills, and traction control was of for a good amount (mostly testing in mud) . May have agitated the front end but not a single issue from the motor or tranny. Front tires are down to the wear bars though lol :rotfl:
 
Dirt Trek said:
Well we ran the car pretty much non stop up steep and not easy terrain for about 6 hours that day total. I'd say it cut out about 3.5 to 4 hours in. Only down time it had was for a couple minutes every hour or so (if even that much) after "mayday" hill we ran it up 2 or 3 more steep hills and through some off camber areas to get back to the main road so the system was getting a work out before and after it entered limp mode. Like I said before it had gotten hot (no indication on the dash but we could smell it) but the major hill climbs put us in an open area where a cold wind was blowing so I think that may have helped it cool quite a bit. Either way, 4 hours of hill climbs and constant traction control, I think the car held up pretty good. The run I did yesterday I was pushing hard but not as long, hardly any hills, and traction control was of for a good amount (mostly testing in mud) . May have agitated the front end but not a single issue from the motor or tranny. Front tires are down to the wear bars though lol :rotfl:
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That's a good run! Based on the terrain on your videos, I think the car and the transmission did well. It's amazing what these cars can do in their stock form. There are limitations on any system and the user just has to be aware of that. It's good to know that you can properly enjoy a day at the dirt with before it limps. The challenge will be to get to know how much it can do before it gets to that point but I think you have a pretty good idea.

The smell is normal as it's just heated-up fluid and expanded fumes smell coming off the breather, as long as there isn't a transmission temp warning light turned on.

I have seen other makes who market their cars as off-road capable, would heat up their transmissions and limp the car after a few obstacles.

This is good news for those in the market for newer ones. CVT failures commonly occur in the belts and Subarus have chains, eliminating that issue. After seeing the TSBs and confirming that the failures and non belt-related, it's a sigh of relief for those after newer models.

Now, you have to find a good Subaru mechanic to take care of the transmission. This is recommended even if you are to do DIY. They will know what's wrong with the car from a kilometre away and, if you tell them your type of wheeling, they will adjust the CVT fluid change accordingly. It would be nice to get a dip stick to check the fluid condition but, at the moment, it's just going to be a proper fluid change to check the old fluid. Cheers.
 
Once again if the car goes where you want it too, and you are happy with it, don’t mess with it. We see all the time where people join up and the first thing they want to know, without ever had the car off road, is how high can it go and how big a tyre can I fit. They end up with a car that is worse on road and far beyond what they need off road. A waste of money. Money better spent elsewhere, such as sump guards and keeping the transmission fluid in good condition. I wouldn’t be having my foot on the throttle without moving for anything but very short periods. It’s just basic mechanical sympathy
 
ABFoz said:
That's a good run! Based on the terrain on your videos, I think the car and the transmission did well. It's amazing what these cars can do in their stock form. There are limitations on any system and the user just has to be aware of that. It's good to know that you can properly enjoy a day at the dirt with before it limps. The challenge will be to get to know how much it can do before it gets to that point but I think you have a pretty good idea.

The smell is normal as it's just heated-up fluid and expanded fumes smell coming off the breather, as long as there isn't a transmission temp warning light turned on.

I have seen other makes who market their cars as off-road capable, would heat up their transmissions and limp the car after a few obstacles.

This is good news for those in the market for newer ones. CVT failures commonly occur in the belts and Subarus have chains, eliminating that issue. After seeing the TSBs and confirming that the failures and non belt-related, it's a sigh of relief for those after newer models.

Now, you have to find a good Subaru mechanic to take care of the transmission. This is recommended even if you are to do DIY. They will know what's wrong with the car from a kilometre away and, if you tell them your type of wheeling, they will adjust the CVT fluid change accordingly. It would be nice to get a dip stick to check the fluid condition but, at the moment, it's just going to be a proper fluid change to check the old fluid. Cheers.
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I agree, was a little worried with an electrical system vs mechanic, and a newer car vs an old truck (even though they are classified as a mini crossover SUV wagon... thing. If you compare them to other vehicles in their class, they are definitely more car then SUV. Yet more capable) I'll admit, once I got a taste of what the car could do, I pushed it past what I actually plan on using it for. I just couldn't help it. Everytime we saw an obstacle we thought would stop it, it proved itself. It shocks us everytime we take it out, none stop. Definatly a proven offroader that can hold its own, but I still get people that put me down cause it's a car, and I think they don't want to see a stock $17k car walk past their $60k highly modified rig, be it a truck, jeep, or whatever. I love it on the road and off. And I was a hard core truck guy, never owned a car.
 
Rally said:
Once again if the car goes where you want it too, and you are happy with it, don’t mess with it. We see all the time where people join up and the first thing they want to know, without ever had the car off road, is how high can it go and how big a tyre can I fit. They end up with a car that is worse on road and far beyond what they need off road. A waste of money. Money better spent elsewhere, such as sump guards and keeping the transmission fluid in good condition. I wouldn’t be having my foot on the throttle without moving for anything but very short periods. It’s just basic mechanical sympathy
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The crosstrek is very capable stock, but I do want to modify it to get a little more out of it (including appearance) but I agree, preventative maintenance and safe guards HAS to be in the list of purchases. Highly modified is useless, vs stock, if the rig can't roll because the motor blew because the oil was never changed. My immediate plans are tires: more grip and less chance of puncture, 1.5 or 2 inch lift: noticed clearance issues and scraping, and chopping the front bumper: not too happy with the current entry angle and it's one of the things that bug me most out on the trail.
 
Yes, I’m not surprised you want to do something about the bumper.
 
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