What factors make Off Road Ability?

You have responded to my rant very well. Thank you for being so thoughtful. I need to apologise, particularly to Rally, for some of my previous post. I should have been more judicious and I was hoping to edit it before it became public but missed that opportunity.

The SF was a lemon. It had only 130,000K on the clock but I think it had taken a dunking before it got to me.

As I said, at the risk of being repetitive, safety has to be a major concern because it is the only car I have and it wasn't chosen because of its off-road ability. I simply decided to use it off road when I had the time and opportunity to do so.

If I could have 2 cars, I might consider an SF as a project second car and drive a Lexus otherwise. I would put a bigger engine in it or fit a supercharger but I would rather use an auto than a manual. The clutch has always been a weak point in Subarus and that was deliberate to protect the drivetrain.

It seems to me that arguing about what makes off-road ability is a moot point because the factors have been well established by experts better than any of us. Some of those factors are used to determine ADR classification. (ground clearance, approach and departure angles and break over angle) The other factors are traction which is a function of weight on wheels combined with friction between tyre and track, power/torque to weight ratio up to the point where this overcomes friction, Centre of gravity, turning circle/manouverability, etc. Why are we arguing about it?
 
again snow and some foresters going good agains others
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0x2VFQvE1I"]??? ????????? ? Subaru? ??????? ????? ??????????? ? ?? ??????! ?????? ??????????! - YouTube[/ame]
 
Yikes....just relax folks.

When I started this thread, I was not only trying to discuss what makes any car perform well offroad, but I was also trying to analyse what factors about Subarus made them tackle certain situations so well. This was in response to several overland trips to Central Australia where I witnessed a certain degree of superiority over "real" 4x4s in some situations such as steep, hot, soft sand dunes and soft muddy clay.

I think the thread has been a great one - we have established that our low weight allows us to skip across sand without sinking giving us highly capable sand vehicles, we have established that low centre of gravity keeps that weight distribution over all 4 wheels when a much taller vehicle would have shifted its weight to the rear wheels, we have established that with a mild lift we have great clearance because the undercarriage has fewer low-hanging bits than a transfer case 4wd. We have reasoned that having 400kg per wheel is going to get you further along the wet-clay track than 800kg per wheel without sinking.

It has been a very interesting and informative thread.
 
Totally agree with you Tweaksta, that's why I love my Forester.

Next step is to keep the Forester's philosophy in mind and travel as light as possible.
 
but with those nice russian videos with foresters in snow gives some peoplke who dont have snow some other understanding too. that was my purpose here and im amazed myself how good they are . not much travel not big ground clearance but they flying up snow hills like champs. well mostly turbo ones does with that extra umph i guess.
and its allways better to see other cars vs subarus even large 4wd cars with lockers. those old turbo foresters so light and have enough power to fly up stuff where heavy cars even with lockers can struggle.
in that last video those forys just flying up obstacles chosing just right lines for them.

how VDC kinda mimics lockers just its not brakes any CV axles
uFcRAf0.gif
 
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People often ask me what is the "best setup" or "best" tyres or "best" model. I always ask them what do they want from it....

Only talking about older models, up to SH Forester & BR Outback, IMO Outbacks are the perfect overlander or tourer. They have a bigger boot than a Forester, higher spec interior, have the H6 option with the excellent VTD auto (Only some facelift SG XT Foresters have the VTD).

On the other hand, the Forester is a better offroader with better approach & departure angles & ramp over angle. The Outback approach and departure angles can be helped with a bumper cut or bumper replacement bullbar. In most offroading this won't be too big a deal but there are lots of tracks in Victoria where an Outback will get hung up, esp on those drainage humps on steep tracks

Having said that, probably THE most capable vehicle offroad I have ever seen was an old BG Liberty with a full Outback suspension conversion plus 2" full body lift kit. You should all know Venom's beast, if not, look it up. It had a H6 swap, dual range gearbox with 1.59 low range, 4.11 diffs, front & rear clutch LSDs, DCCD centre diff. While it didn't have a rear locker, it did have all terrain tyres for more grip. Plus having stock suspension meant better articulation (one of the reasons I recommend NOT getting raised springs). With the exception of Dedman's old SF & now his new SG, this was the most capable Subaru on this forum!
It still had the stock bumper & every now and again he would get hung up on it, but this was pretty rare in all the full on, hardcore tracks I've done with him. Venom would usually lead the group. Many times I've watched him crawl up a super steep climb making it look easy. Only to find it anything but when I did it

See attached photo - this is one of the steepest, most exposed tracks I've ever seen done. Simply not possible on road tyres even when dry, even with muddies aired down to 16psi, they were scrabbling for grip. When wet, this track would be extremely dangerous even with the best driveline & best muddies. On road tyres, you'd have to be a special kind of stupid to even attempt it

As for the onroad handling debate, it's kinda pointless to compare a modified SG with very stiff raised springs to a bog stock SH. I have those same springs in my SF & they greatly reduce body roll. Great for onroad but they suck offroad! There are also enormous gains to be had by upgrading the suspension on a SH to remove the wallowy rear end

I think the SG is considerably safer than a SF, & the SH is obviously safer than a SG, and so on
 

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How to improve SH rear wallow?

Do you have any video of the track? I would love to see that.
 
Beachworm said:
Do you have any video of the track? I would love to see that.
Click to expand...

Lots, it is a brilliant track, can't wait to go back some time! :lildevil:

Going down from the side the previous photo was taken on:
https://youtu.be/J55gLut0XhY

The first section going up the switchback side:
https://youtu.be/W5bXadLYSGw

The second section chasing @elfreddo, at one point I had to stop to get my thoughts together & continue. To lose control here is to die, literally.
https://youtu.be/IUpUBPdDpXw

Going back up the first side. This was a long steep climb. crossing the road without stopping was fun lol. The vid gets a bit dramatic with the small rock. At the time it was dramatic but in hindsight would have only broken a headlight at most
https://youtu.be/qXr8cjmaJvY
 
Fantastic mate
I’m at work
Now when I get home I have an abundance of Subaru vids to watch [emoji1786]
I hope I can make the next trip up there, and I hope I can physically make it up the tracks you talk about too.
Went out with [MENTION=145]El_Freddo[/MENTION] today and had some great fun, he sure knows how to push his L series.....that’s for sure.... lmfao

Cheers

1WD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
[MENTION=15642]Beachworm[/MENTION]
I’m glad you liked my post
I totally understand where everyone is coming from but like I said we are all here to share the Subaru love, which can come in all different shapes and sizes.

Cheers

1WD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Great videos. Thanks for posting the links. I have to say that it didn't seem as bad as I thought it was going to be from the first still shot you posted. I guess that is because of the dreaded slope flattening effect of dash cams.
 
There are many very capable off road Subarus all over the world but at the end, the driving skills and testosterone make the difference !
 
NachaLuva said:
The second section chasing @El_Freddo , at one point I had to stop to get my thoughts together & continue. To lose control here is to die, literally.
https://youtu.be/IUpUBPdDpXw
Click to expand...

If it wasn't so dry, that section could almost have been on the Bump Track (west, not allowed on the eastern section from Black Mountain Road to Mowbray, that's walking/cycling only).
Better condition than the Bump Track though.
 
jf1sf5 said:
There are many very capable off road Subarus all over the world but at the end, the driving skills and testosterone make the difference !
Click to expand...

True. With Subarus, on many technical terrains, sometimes, there is just 1 line to consider vs many with 4x4s. How that 1 line is tackled makes it very interesting and enjoyable. Testosterone spices everything up, as well.
 
At my age it's more adrenaline than testosterone. :rotfl:
 
skills and choosing right lines , right amount gass when to give it when to release that would do night and day difference between 2 drivers on same car same track.
 
NachaLuva said:
Lots, it is a brilliant track, can't wait to go back some time! :lildevil:

Going down from the side the previous photo was taken on:
https://youtu.be/J55gLut0XhY

The first section going up the switchback side:
https://youtu.be/W5bXadLYSGw

The second section chasing @elfreddo, at one point I had to stop to get my thoughts together & continue. To lose control here is to die, literally.
https://youtu.be/IUpUBPdDpXw

Going back up the first side. This was a long steep climb. crossing the road without stopping was fun lol. The vid gets a bit dramatic with the small rock. At the time it was dramatic but in hindsight would have only broken a headlight at most
https://youtu.be/qXr8cjmaJvY
Click to expand...

[MENTION=2617]NachaLuva[/MENTION] - so, what are you doing over the easter holidays?? Only issue for me is that I’ll probably still be on roadies. But these vids definitely have me wanting to get back out to those epic climbs and creek crossings!

As for factors for offroad ability: gearing, reduction in diff power transfer (LSDs/Locjer - ultimate), articulation, ground clearance, torque/power, and of course, driver’s understanding of the track conditions and HOW their vehicle behaves/handles for the given conditions.

You drive a live axle very differently to independently sprung 4wd, or the other way around as the case may be... I reckon that independent suspension makes you think more critically about your line to reverse the same terrain.

Cheers

Bennie
 
El_Freddo said:
so, what are you doing over the easter holidays?? Only issue for me is that I’ll probably still be on roadies. But these vids definitely have me wanting to get back out to those epic climbs and creek crossings!
Click to expand...

Are you sure you want to do it on roadies? :lol:

Not sure if I'll have either Foz ready for that kind of trip by then. It's good motivation to get Venom's old gearbox installed...
 
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