What factors make Off Road Ability?

[MENTION=15642]Beachworm[/MENTION] I love the look of the SH and yes then you would have VDC in a forester, but is it correct that no forester that comes with VDC is available in manual?
[MENTION=15623]Ben Up North[/MENTION] nothings wrong with the SH mate [emoji6][emoji1598]

Cheers

1WD






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All SH Foresters have VDC regardless of the transmission.

I didn't look at the cheap SH because I already have one but the ad said the price was reduced to clear for sale as is. Values continue to decline as vehicles age. Even mine, as it is now would be struggling to bring more than $10,000
 
One reason you’d buy an SG over an SH is because it’s 10 times nicer to drive. It doesn’t pitch, lurch, skip and wallow like the SH does. It drives like a normal car, and it’s actually enjoyable to drive on road if you want to have a bit of fun through the corners. The hill start function doesn’t time out like the SH does, and it has a temperature gauge. Modifications are easier as it doesn’t have a body control computer.
 
Having come from driving a Mitsubishi Lancer with CVT into a new SH Forester I didn't notice the issues you mention. I've found (over the last 168,000 Km) it to be a very comfortable and stable cruising vehicle with a high level of safety. It also performs off road much better than I expected and is capable (with the current modifications) of taking me further than I need to go off-road. You can't get away from the fact that the SG is getting to be an old car. My SH is now 8 years old. The safety standards of cars over 10 years old are so much lower that experts do not recommend driving them with your family on board. I think you should always buy the newest model you can afford.

If it's a second or third car as a project for bush bashing that's a different story. If it's going to be your main driver the SG is past it.
 
Beachworm said:
If it's a second or third car as a project for bush bashing that's a different story. If it's going to be your main driver the SG is past it.
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That’s where I’m at
My SF is a great bush basher, and it has 2 airbags which I was surprised with for such an old car, but clearly I didn’t buy my forester for the safety aspect otherwise I failed miserably lmfao


I aimed for the cheapest forester so I don’t have any worries when taking it Offroad, panel damage/ scratches and scrapes are not a worry for me. And mods are highly achievable and can be had cheap, and for a second car used mainly for off-roading that appealed to me [emoji6]

Cheers

1WD


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I went from daily driving the SG to driving an SH. The difference was so stark even passengers commented how bad the SH was, and one of those drove a Patrol! Still, if you are satisfied with the SH then that’s all that matters
 
People really push the car that they have as the one car for everyone..
My mate's Outback has probably done harder rocky tracks then most people do in their Foresters. The extra space is the biggest benefit of the Outback for camping. Lift, bullbar, bumper cuts and different lines account for worse angles. There's a very fine line between where his Outback scrapes and my Forester doesn't. Both of us probably need rock sliders... Also needing momentum for long uphill wheel lifts sucks.

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Largest benefit for SG over the SH IMO is that you can get much more suspension travel out of an SG if you modify it. Keeping 4 wheels on the ground outways a painfully slow reacting traction system. Light weight and smaller car also helps to some degree. The SH probably is more capable in stock form due to the oem 215/65r16 tyre size. And the VDC is beneficial if the SG still has swaybars connected and no flex.
 
Just becasue the SH has VDC it doesn't mean they have greater offroad ability....

SF & SG have lower centres of gravity and the chassis dynamics are very predictable. For the SH Subaru wanted to make a more family friendly and spacious versatile vehicle. The roof is way higher (too high - I've seen over a foot between drivers heads and the ceiling). That weight up there doesn't help.

Essentially, any ability the SH may have gained by adding VDC is cancelled by a less dynamic chassis.....
 
I would rather see someone driving an SG Forester than say a Toyota Rav 4 or a Nissan X Trail simply because I have become an apologist for Subaru since becoming an owner. I didn't buy my SH Forester to go off-road. It happened to be my company car and I bought it for a song when the lease expired so I took it with me when I retired. I had already driven it for 5 years before I owned it and only after that did I become interested in taking it off-road.

I think the difference between the off-road ability of an SG as compared to and SH, Outback or even a Rav 4 or X Trail for that matter is marginal and has more to do with the driver than the car. Arguing about the centre of gravity is nit-picking as it is only the mass of the roof itself that is a few cm higher. Lifting an SG makes its CofG much worse than a stock SH and even then CofG is only an issue when the vehicle is negotiating seriously cambered tracks.

My point remains that if the car is to be your daily driver you should buy the latest model you can afford to give you and your family the best chance of surviving an impact with another vehicle or the scenery.

Think about it. What percentage of your driving is off-road and what percentage of that is so extreme that you would base your choice of vehicle on its ability to cope with it? You would be making a high value decision based on a 1% chance. That doesn't sound rational to me.
 
If safety is your thing, then you should be considering primary safety as well as secondary safety. And with a far better suspension set up, the SG is far safer than an SH. Better not to have an accident at all than be in a car with poor body control.

As I have said before, this is the beauty of cars like mine. I can run high performance road tyres on my SG for added primary safety and on road enjoyment and still have a far more capable off road car than later model cars even when they have off road all terrain tyres.

I agree good off road cars need to be good on road cars too. However, this thread is what makes good off road ability. If good off road ability is a low priority, perhaps this thread or even this forum isn’t for you.
 
I hear what you are saying Beachworm and agree with newer-is-safer but the SH is more of a wafty handler, when driving an SF or SG and they almost have an inherent sportiness (especially turbos) and a good deal of "chuckability" in cornering. This in itself has allowed me to avoid some pretty gnarly impacts with objects and scenery. (As Rally said, primary safety....)

With SJs and SHs becoming affordable now, the temptation to purchase a safer and newer model is always on my mind.....but seriously, if an SH can't get up a steep hill and the SJ has a time-bomb for a gearbox these models don't have the goods to warrant an upgrade IMHO. My daily driver needs to be a great road car and still be able to get up Big Red.......hence my quest to find a newer version of what I've already got.
 
I chose my SF because it’s manual and has a 50/50 torque split until loss of traction then it will send upto 80% of the torque to the opposing axle, it has the second best low range that I know Subaru ever made, it was cheap and because of this I am not scared to modify my SF in any which way.
To start with I was disappointed with the Ej20’s performance but since installing the EJ22 it has made my car much easier to drive Offroad at slow speeds and it can actually tow a decent weight.

If I was to purchase another Subaru for normal day to day driving I wouldn’t buy a SF.... I would look into newer foresters, liberty or even outback’s but I also wouldn’t modify it to have better Offroad capability.
My dads H6 liberty b spec would be up there on my list for a fun inconspicuous power horse daily driver lol.

Cheers

1WD



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"SG’s are newer than SF’s"

Haha, a true salesman. Mate, I'd freaking love to buy your car, it is everything I ever wanted.

It's just that in a nutshell the SG has roughly the same dimensions as mine so it wouldn't overcome my overloadedness when doing long outback trips, now with a child in the car I really need another few litres of internal volume.
 
Well then, the logical next step is an Iveco Daily.

:ebiggrin:
 
Lol [emoji23]

1WD


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Rally said:
If safety is your thing, then you should be considering primary safety as well as secondary safety. And with a far better suspension set up, the SG is far safer than an SH. Better not to have an accident at all than be in a car with poor body control.

As I have said before, this is the beauty of cars like mine. I can run high performance road tyres on my SG for added primary safety and on road enjoyment and still have a far more capable off road car than later model cars even when they have off road all terrain tyres.

I agree good off road cars need to be good on road cars too. However, this thread is what makes good off road ability. If good off road ability is a low priority, perhaps this thread or even this forum isn’t for you.
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Primary safety is very important but subject to the driver being aware of the vehicle's characteristics and driving within them. No amount of primary safety can help you when a drunk driver comes onto your side of the road right in front of you or runs a red light and T bones you. Primary safety factors also include ABS and VDC.

Your final comment certainly doesn't make me feel valued as the owner of a lifted Subaru set up to improve off-road capability. I have realised I am in the minority on this forum. There are very few contributing members like me that own vehicles less than 10 years old as their sole means of transport. There is very limited help for the minority when problems are posed but no shortage of advice for those looking to fit lower gearing or tricky diffs in old cars. The Facebook group offers much better support for modern Subaru owners who want to take their cars off road.

I have owned an SF and found it primitive compared with my SH. The engine was underpowered as others have noted, the low range was useless, the clutch was fried and the gearbox bearings packed it in. I couldn't wait to get rid of it and it didn't convince me to buy another Subaru or even defend it in any way.

Everything I have said in my posts is from the context of using an off-road capable car as a daily driver and your sole means of transport. I'm an aged pensioner and unlike those with a decent income, I can't afford to own 2 or 3 cars all suited for purpose. I need an all-rounder, a compromise car, that has both primary and secondary safety features (5 star at date of purchase).

Perhaps I should restrict my posts to the Facebook group and leave you to sell your car in peace. I would hate to think that my opinions are getting in the way of your pitch.
 
Beachworm said:
I have owned an SF and found it primitive compared with my SH. The engine was underpowered as others have noted, the low range was useless, the clutch was fried and the gearbox bearings packed it in. I couldn't wait to get rid of it and it didn't convince me to buy another Subaru or even defend it in any way
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I wonder how many K’s your primitive SF had ?
I’m not sticking up for the 2.0’s performance as I stated before I felt it was hugely lacking until I installed the EJ22...but I feel like in your case you bought a lemon SF, my crawl speed is really good for a Subaru and if your clutch had of worked correctly you may have noticed this too.
If in your case you drove your SF in low range with a fried clutch then no wonder you didn’t like it, sure it’s no SH but there’s plenty not to like about all newer foresters including your own as stated before by other members.
If safety is your main concern then safety’s your main concern, that doesn’t mean it should be everyone else’s, if Offroad capability is my main concern then that’s my main concern, that doesn’t mean it should be everybody else’s.

End of the day we all chose our Subaru for our own reasons and that’s that.

When My wife and I have kids or when my wife needs a new car I would look at a safer Subaru than the SF I have now, but not one with any Offroad capabilities, and I realise not many people can afford to have a “play” car like some of us on here can, but that’s why we start with the later models so it’s not so hard on the pocket for the initial purchase and for the random mods we all choose to do.

Facebook does have great support for any model Subaru, but so does this site, and I wouldn’t have my Forester today if it wasn’t for this forum.

Not having a dig at anyone
Just my 2 cents (more like $2 lol)[emoji1360]

Cheers

1WD





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