What factors make Off Road Ability?

Its all very well to modify old vehicles and use them off-road as long as you're not intending for them to be daily transport for the wife and kids. Newer models are so much better as far as safety features are concerned, such as crash-worthiness, roll-over protection, emergency braking, controllability on wet or icy roads, that you wouldn't want to be taking your kids out camping in anything else.

Unless going off road is something you do twice a week, who would reasonably spend so much modifying their old car when they could have bought a newer model with low Ks for the same amount. The difference in capability is only relevant if you are testing the limits. There is always another way to get to the destination.

The other thing to consider is resale value. Anyone who has ever modified a car will tell you that those changes that were so valuable to you actually limit the number of people who would be willing to buy it from you and unless you come across an enthusiast (who is likely to want to do the modifications themselves) you will never get your money back. I know that I can remove my lift kit and sump guard and fit standard tyres and its a stock Forester for resale.

If you want a second car for bush bashing, go ahead and buy an SJ, SG or L series and spend heaps of time and money on it, have a great time and get lots of satisfaction while you take your kids to soccer in something safe to drive with idiots on the road. If, however, you can only afford to run one car, get a newer model and make modifications that can easily be reversed.

As far as the older models go, there seems to be a certain mind-set among their owners that anything later than an L series isn't a real Subaru. They even had badges that designated them as 4X4.

You have to do what's right for you and that depends on your finances, your life interests and responsibilities and how much equipment you have in your shed. :lol:
 
I agree with just about all of that. I would also add that whatever car you use, don’t just rely on the car to get you out of trouble. Learn how to control a car, do an ABS lockup somewhere remote and safe. Know how to control a slide and how to be a defensive driver. Surviving an accident is good, avoiding one altogether is much better again. Having taught some WRX drivers on the skidpan, it’s obvious that very few had the ability to control their cars in an emergency before they came to the skidpan. The improvements in their car control afterwards was very significant. I imagine Forester drivers and the general population are no better. A good driver in an SG could avoid the accident a poor driver in an SJ or newer car might survive.
 
When I first started offroading there weren't too many offroad spec SH Foresters as they were quite new. Now I know of about half a dozen in Perth with custom bars, lift, tyres and enthusiastic drivers that will go a lot of places! The electronic traction systems aren't as good as a diff locker, but they are way better then the standard drive system found in stock older Subaru's.

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Onroad I've seen a few newer Subaru's that have been modified for offroad. And I've seen a new Outback making dunes look easy. Probably the hardest offroading I've seen a newer Subaru do was by a completely stock XV. He should be fitting his lift and larger tyres soon. So just a matter of time until currently new Subaru's get offroaded and then a little more time until people work out what extensive mods can be done. But in stock form newer Subaru's come with slightly worse lower profile tyres, but better drive systems. Just a matter of time before the right person gets a lot out of them.
 
The 4Runner exception aside, we are a Subaru family, but not a Forester family. Yet, the one utility Subaru I will long regret never having is the 2009-13 FXT. Great car on road, great platform to offroad as well.
 
Thanks for agreeing with me Rally. I agree with you too:ebiggrin:

I was put through an advanced and defensive driving course by the company that gave me my first company car and it was an enlightening experience.

I would also recommend joining a CAMS affiliated car club and getting involved in motorkhanas. Competition does wonders for car control skills.

RedXS - You've said it well. Those of us who drive SH or later Foresters off road can't quite keep up with Rally's super SG but we can make some sections of track look easy where SG and earlier with open diffs struggle. Love that front bar:ebiggrin:
 
Motorkhanas are great fun. Mitch, who took this video of us in my WRX, has a pretty decent SG off-roader as well. He may even be on this forum.

[ame="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BpQ0rIetWuM"]Subinats 2018 Motorkhana Sydney - YouTube[/ame]
 
I'm keen to know if you need to use the handbrake?
 
Firstly, that was a joy ride, not an attempt at a quick time. Yes, you do need the handbrake although on some courses you can do a scando on some turns, although I don’t think I’ve seen anyone else do them. Much more fun doing a scando than a handbrake turn. I’ve not done a scando when going for a time.
 
MiddleAgeSubie said: "Yet, the one utility Subaru I will long regret never having is the 2009-13 FXT. Great car on road, great platform to offroad as well"...
Yes, that exact model (and it's sibling the S-Edition) are on my shortlist as my next vehicle....with the obligatory 2" Lift kit, snorkel and ATs.

Also, if I could add my 2 cents on new vs old cars and related traction aids; I agree wholeheartedly with your comments that an SH/SJ will save you life better than an SF. However, I feel much safer in my SF with no ESC, VSC, TC or VDC than I feel in a current model Pajero Sport, Fortuner, Land Cruiser, Prado or any ute-based 4WD with all the electronics. On a wet road in a high speed off-camber sweeping curve, the high centres of gravity can cause such loss of control that the electronics simply don't know how to save you. The electronics are being used to aid in controlling what is essentially a brick on a frame on wheels. Even an older Subaru has such a low centre of gravity that the forces pulling you off the road are significantly reduced, allowing for a safer curve at possibly a higher speed without triggering electronic intervention.

The only other 4wd which I have seen displaying prodigious vehicle dynamics is the Amarok, not only have I seen one rallying in dirt quite well but I happened to observe one almost have an peak-hour accident in Sydney and I was blown away by how it performed with the driver's emergency brake-and-swerve manoeuvre.
 
I like the Amarok too. I'm interested to see how the auto performs off-road as it has no low range.
 
Tweaksta said:
MiddleAgeSubie said: "Yet, the one utility Subaru I will long regret never having is the 2009-13 FXT. Great car on road, great platform to offroad as well"...
Yes, that exact model (and it's sibling the S-Edition) are on my shortlist as my next vehicle....with the obligatory 2" Lift kit, snorkel and ATs.

Also, if I could add my 2 cents on new vs old cars and related traction aids; I agree wholeheartedly with your comments that an SH/SJ will save you life better than an SF. However, I feel much safer in my SF with no ESC, VSC, TC or VDC than I feel in a current model Pajero Sport, Fortuner, Land Cruiser, Prado or any ute-based 4WD with all the electronics. On a wet road in a high speed off-camber sweeping curve, the high centres of gravity can cause such loss of control that the electronics simply don't know how to save you. The electronics are being used to aid in controlling what is essentially a brick on a frame on wheels. Even an older Subaru has such a low centre of gravity that the forces pulling you off the road are significantly reduced, allowing for a safer curve at possibly a higher speed without triggering electronic intervention.
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Getting that model Foz will be awesome! I agree that any Subaru with AWD and low center of gravity is preferable to a traditional 4x4 on wet roads.
 
Yes, the S Edition is veeerrryyy nice! A whole heap of performance upgrades & interior upgrades :monkeydance:
 

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^ indeed! My son has an SH S and has had extra work done and performance-tuned; very quick. Not off-road modded though as it's their "soccer-mum" car.
 
The blue on in the pic looks interesting with those big tyres. How do the front ones not rub when turning?
 
They're the same car, just different lighting.

Tyres are 225/70/16 on Toyota 86 rims (made by Enkei. Same PCD & offset as a Forester). The pinch welds behind the front tyres have been flattened a little, nothing too much

I'll be fitting this same size to my SH
 
What's the rim width? Mine are 6.5. I'd like to go to 225 but thought 6.5 rims would be too narrow.
 
Hey Nacha, is that your car or do you know the owner? Very interested in the lift components for it. Is it sporting a SubieLiftOz lift kit? Is it just 2" blocks for the fronts and rears plus trailing arm spacers or would it need camber bolts too?

I'm not knowledgeable about the SHs suspension apart from the fact that it "looks" different to mine - especially since the rear spring is not visible.
 
[MENTION=101]Tweaksta[/MENTION] the S-Edition? I wish that was mine lol, it's very nice!!! Nah I just have a basic SH Foz XS auto. Yes it has a 2"/2.5" SubieLiftOz lift kit

Yes the SH Forester rear suspension is very different. It needs strut top spacers plus a rear subframe spacer kit instead of trailing arm spacers (they serve a similar function though). No need for aftermarket camber bolts on these
[MENTION=15642]Beachworm[/MENTION] I believe the Toyota 86 rims are 16x6.5" or 7". I have 215/75/15 on 15x6" rims, 225 on 6.5" is fine
 
How much would the 2"/2.5" SubieLiftOz lift kit cost just out of curiosity?

Also, does anyone know if the SubaXtreme SH XT sump guard would fit the S-Edition?
i.e. does the S-Edition have anything bigger underneath (pipes etc) than an XT?
 
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