New springs and struts - just checkin'

Gidday Tannin

The middle one ... I like the lenses and ergonomics. The IBIS in Olympus cameras appears to be the only one that works really well. According to some tests, the bigger Olympus bodies deliver between 2.5 and 4 stops (the smaller, lighter bodies like the Pens and the E-620 seem to come in at around 2.5 stops, max. The OM-D is in a whole different league with its 5 axis IBIS), as against the other two who struggle to get over 2 stops. Even so, that's something. I reckon that both the bodies I have with IBIS give me around 3 stops; but on a bad day, nothing can save me ... :lol: :rotfl: :raspberry:.

I have 3 bodies, and more lenses than I can reasonably use. I like to print big - A2 size. I have a printer that handles this size paper. Even so, the matting, mounting, framing and glazing cost me about $50 per print, around double the price of the printing ...

I have roughly the same depth of field at f/4 that you have at f/8. If I need the shutter speed, I can always open the aperture up to f/2 or f/2.8 on my higher grade lenses. These still give acceptable depth of field at these apertures, depending on the subject, subject distance, etc. They are also all very sharp wide open, even the standard grade lenses.

I would love to have the IBIS and sensor in the OM-D in my cameras, but one can't have everything, I guess ... :lol: :iconwink: :cool:. Hopefully by the end of this year ... :biggrin: :lildevil:
 
I've put the old struts to one side for you mate. Do you get up Ballarat way often?
 
I've had the chance to do a few miles now and can provide some first impressions:

1: It handles more like a 4WD and less like a car now. Not a massive difference, but the 2 inch extra height is quite noticable.

2: It rolls noticably. Not alarming, just somethng I notice, more with uneven road surfaces than with cornering.

3: The ride is annoyingly joggly. It's quite noisy and would get pretty tiring after a few hundred k. I like a firm ride, but every little ripple in the tarmac gets transmitted now. It's quite unpleasant. ButI'm still running the insane tyre pressures I was using before when the suspension had sagged and thrown the allignment out to blankey and I was zooming round those tiny narrow Tasmanian roads and trying to keep the thing on the black stuff instead of in the scenery. I'll drop those back to something more suitable in the morning and see what difference that makes. (Quite a lot is my guess.) I'm running .. er ... I think it was 42 PSI so there is plenty of room to bring that down. I'll try 35 or 30. These are light truck tyres too, so they tend to have a harsher ride than car tyres. 25 PSI isn't out of the question, but my guess is that about 30 will be sweet. I'm still not loaded up to touring weight (though closer now), so that will be a factor too.

4: It hasn't had the wheel allignment yet. We will do that on Monday. They said to drive it round a bit first to let things settle in. It's a vit vauge and wandery right now; doubtless that will improve.

5: Did I say that it drives a lot better? Working rear suspension is a lot better than worn-out, clagged out rear suspension!

6: I'm a little concerned that we might have overdone it on the front. The rear will settle with the extra weight I normally carry, but maybe a bit less lift at the front would have been better. Let's wait and see. I can always take the lift blocks out and just have the taller springs, but I imagine it won't come to that.

7: Overall, pleased with the changes so far. I won't really get the benefit 'till I meet some bad off-road stuff. Who knows when that will be?

8: Also on Monday, I get the bill. No doubt that will calm me down a bit! :(
 
my advice - when it's time replace the LT tyres go with a normal all terrain. I ran mickey thompson atz light trucks on our pajero for four years, but had to change them prior to a trip to visit family in the flinders ranges as the drive across from vic would have driven us nuts - the noise was fatiguing, not just annoying. They were one of the best off road tyres, but the 2% off road just wasn't worth it for the 98% it was on-road. Switched to yoko geo ats and they are great on road, way less noise and no tread block rumble (massive difference), they're wearing well and good of road so far.
 
the wheel alignment will make a massive difference. i built a lifted lib for a mate of mine once and he was quite concerned at what I had done to his car until it had the alignment. After that he loved it.
 
Tannin said:
I've had the chance to do a few miles now and can provide some first impressions:

2: It rolls noticably. Not alarming, just somethng I notice, more with uneven road surfaces than with cornering.
Click to expand...
That sounds strange to me :confused:
When I put the Kings on my Forry (MY05) (I'm guessing you did too as I see yellow springs) I noticed less body roll over all, especially when cornering.

Regards
Mr Turbo
 
Eastie said:
my advice - when it's time replace the LT tyres go with a normal all terrain. I ran mickey thompson atz light trucks on our pajero for four years, but had to change them prior to a trip to visit family in the flinders ranges as the drive across from vic would have driven us nuts - the noise was fatiguing, not just annoying. They were one of the best off road tyres, but the 2% off road just wasn't worth it for the 98% it was on-road. Switched to yoko geo ats and they are great on road, way less noise and no tread block rumble (massive difference), they're wearing well and good of road so far.
Click to expand...


Thanks team.

I took the tyres down to 30 PSI front and rear today and repeated the same trip as yesterday. Much improved. It still joggles a bit, it's still a little harsh, but no longer unduly so. It no longer feels like a train going over a badly-joined rail. I might try just a little less air - 27 PSI maybe, and write the rest off to the inevitable price you pay for running truck tyres.

I hear you about the Yokos Eastie, there are a couple of reasons why I haven't gone that way. First, I have only ever owned two sets of Yokohama tyres: the factory-fit Geosquealers which were terrible, and a set of some other Yokohama model which was all I could get in Townsville that particular day, and they were, if anything, even worse. Yes, I know that lots of people here say that the Yoko Geolander ATS are completely different, and I'm sure that they are right, I just struggle to force myself to order tyres from a company which gave me such utter carp twice in a row. One day soon, I imagine I'll get a set for my spare rims and reserve them for outback trips. Meanwhile, I'm on my second set of light truck tyres which are a little harsh ride-wise and lack the tread pattern for sand or especially mud, but are tough as old boots and wear forever and resist stones and gibbers and mallee roots better than any tire I've ever owned except maybe those superb Michelin off-road tyres you can't buy anymore.

mr turbo said:
When I put the Kings on my Forry (MY05) (I'm guessing you did too as I see yellow springs) I noticed less body roll over all, especially when cornering.
Click to expand...

I can think of two reasons why this might be so: first, my rears had collapsed so there really wasn't any chance of any body roll till now! Second, I haven't had the wheel allignment yet. It's entirely possible that I'm getting exagerated effects from misallignment. Oh, and third out of two, maybe I need to replace a few other bits of running gear - the old girl has done 265000k.

Be interesting to see how she goes on Monday.
 
I'm surprised about your comments about body roll too. My springs/struts were totally shagged when I replaced them & the improvement in body roll was amazing!

Thanks for the struts...PM sent
 
Hopefully after you have the wheel allignment on Monday, it'll feel & perform more to you're liking :)

Regards
Mr Turbo
 
Well I spat the dummy. The front lift blocks are coming out next week.

The handling is still terrible. The ride is horrible. It tramlines something shocking on soft stuff and not much better on bitmen. With a normal load, the front sits noticably higher than the back.

What I should have done was fit all four lift blocks and gone for HD springs at the rear only. that would have worked out about right for ride height, and given a softer ride too. Oh well, you live and learn.

Anyway, we will see how much better it is with the front lift blocks removed. I have my fingers crossed. Oh, and I'm having the steering rack ends replaced at the same time - there is too much slop in the steering and that makes the tramlining and the bump steer worse.
 
Cheers mate.

I think I have too much lift at the front, NL. There is always a fair load in the back, so that's about right - lifted maybe 45mm above standard assuming a normal load on board - but the front is more than that - at a guess, 55 or 60mm. Gary thinks that I'm getting a problem with airflow lifting the body 'coz the front is too high, and that's why it floats around and needs concentration to keep on track. I reckon there is a bit more to it, 'coz it's also nasty at low speed on slippery dirt. The company which did the wheel allignment, I noticed, carefully bllled me using terms like "adjust as far as is provision for" hinting (to my mind) that they had run out of adjustment because the front was so high. Or maybe they just put that on all their bills.

Anyway, we are going to try dropping the front a bit by removing the 25mm lift blocks. (A 15mm drop would be perfect, but we will try this and see how we go.) Obviously we will need a fresh alignment after doing that, so if the first one was no good we get another chance at it now.

The extra clearance makes an amazing difference on badly rutted tracks and over huge potholes, so I don't want to go back to the standard height.

Oh, I also think that the combinationj of the HD springs and the standard shockers was a mistake. It floats too much, as though the shockers are worn (which they ain't). Another time, I'd have standard rate springs and the standard shockers, or else harder valved shocks to go with the harder spring rates.

We will try this combo (HD springs all round, standard shocks all round, 25mm lift blocks at the rear only) and if I'm still not happy, I have it in the back of my mind to put the front lift blocks back in again and replace the HD front springs with standard rate springs. I want it to drive nicely on the bitumen 'coz I do a lot of k, but still get the off-road benefit of a lift. Paitence is a virtue, eh.
 
You are completely right about the shocks and springs, as you always carry some load in the back, you could just go with OEM springs and blocks at the front, it will also be better on road (less understeer). And for a stiffer handling, the shocks should be stiffer than the springs to be able to "control" the springs.

Subforest72 had the same problem with his Ironman springs in the front because of his spare wheel carrier, he came back to the front OEM springs and it seems ok, better handling and better wheel travel for off road use :iconwink:
 
Tannin,
I am surprised by your comments. I put my lift in a couple of months ago and pondered saving money by retaining the OEM struts in the front. The rear SLS were stuffed.
In the end I went for the raised Kings and new KYB struts on all four corners, and could not be happier with the result. The new springs and struts are so quiet too.
The car feels really good both on and off road. My understanding is that the KYB struts are stiffer than the OEM KYB's that were fitted on the front and definately stiffer than the SLS in the rear.
I have the luxury of being able to compare the ride between the raised 2002 XS and the other one (2004 XS)that has stock suspension (SLS in the rear).
The ride is firmer but not harsh and the rebound is more noticeable (probably due to the raised spring trying to extend the struts), but it handles fine.
I would be concerned about lowering your tyre pressures for road use. The LT tyres might have been alright with the OEM set up but with stiffer raised springs, don't know.....
 
Using raised springs plus 1" blocks has very likely run your camber alignment out of adjustment. Did they give you a printout? I'd be very interested what your front camber is.

A 2" lift block has 7mm of camber compensation...you have an extra 1/2" of lift with no compensation.

It may also have affected your caster. The best mod I've done handling wise is installing caster offset bushes in the front control arm. Tracking is better & turn in is amazing:
Control Arm Rear Bush (Caster Offset)- SuperPro

I think removing the front 1" block is prob the best way to go from here. Hopefully that fixes your problems
 
Cheers lads,

131019-092253-.jpg


As you can see from this picture taken yesterday with the car normally loaded*, the front end is too high. Gary reckons that is the root cause of my problems. But since I last posted, and in the light of several very helpful comments above, I have decided not to remove the spacer blocks. Instead, I'll be putting standard springs back on the front. (Which means buying them 'coz I don't have the old ones any more. Doh!)

The way I'm looking at it, that should give me (about!) the right ride height and a softer ride (the Kings HD are very harsh) and get the allignments closer.

Two questions remain:

(1) Will the standard springs + 1" block leave the front too low instead of too high? If so, what can I do about it?

(2) Will the lower front be enough to fix my allignment and handling problems or will I need to follow up with NachaLuva's extra suspension bits?

My plan for now is to just go ahead with the spring swap and see how it performs and whether or not more tinkering is needed. Thanks for all the useful suggestion, lads!

* "Normally loaded": i.e., with the same stuff I'd usually take away on a multi-week trip with me - camping gear, lots of food in case I get stuck behind a river in Queensland, 30 or 40 litres of water, and so on. Actually, a full trip load is slightly heavier than above - I only had about 20 litres of water on board, for example - but I reckon I had enough weight in yesterday to be close enough. Add another 100kg, be about right.

PS: I may have a pair of HD springs for sale shortly, hardly used.
 
Havachat, do you have lift blocks as well as the HD springs? Or just the heavy springs?
 
That looks the same as mine was till I put an extra 1" block in the rear. I think my front springs sit higher than they are meant to cos they also top out :(

Are you putting standard height Kings in? You should be happy with them...they are standard height but still a little stiffer than OEM to give better handling.

I'd do your spring swap over first & then see how your alignment goes, I think it should be fine...unless you want to put in the caster offset bushes or an anti-lift kit lol (not sure if they have these for a Foz). It really does transform the handling & turn-in :lildevil:

Anti Lift Kit - Whiteline KCA334
"Whiteline Anti Lift Kit (WALK) is designed to add 0.5 deg static positive caster to both front wheels while changing the nature of front anti-dive & lift. The low compliance bush also maintain higher dynamic positive castor & change the front control arm geometry that positively influences front suspension attitude. This leads to superior traction under power including cornering dramatically reducing understeer & front wheel spin. The additional castor coupled with the new firmer bushings supplied serve to dramatically sharpen initial turn-in response then forcing more consistent alignment angles through the corner due to the reduced bush compliance"

But only for an SH Foz. I think the caster offset bushes do the same thing. SuperPro is superior to Whiteline :iconwink:
 
Hi Tannin
I have Kings heavy duty raised springs front and rear, however I also fitted new KYB Excel G struts. So far with the loads my car has not sagged that much. Planning to do a high country trip shortly so I will be pretty loaded up for that.
Cheers
 
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