Which is better - NA dual range Foz or L Series?

[NachaLuva]

My Foz is a real 4WD. It has 4 wheels that are driven.

My L-Series though is definately a real 4WD, it has everything but lift, more grunt and chunky tyres to make it an offroad weapon. By looking at most modern 4WD's though they aren't much better.

Real 4WD? No thanks, mines a jacked up rally car with a faux range. (I just have to remember to bring a book to read while I wait for the LCs and Patrols.)

Hell yeah!

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday Venom & Rally

Wether or not you want to modify further down the track is another consideration. If someone was prepared to change gearboxes i would definitely recommend the 2.5 donk, and put in the 1.49 or 1.59 down the track. 2.5 is definitely a better basis for modifying.

Its is also difficult to discuss a single aspect of the vehicle in isolation in terms of how it effects offroad ability. especially between vehicles, because there isn't a uniform basis or environment for comparison.

While i am personally tempted to say gearing is king, thinking on it the real king is the synergy between a number of carefully selected vehicle modifications. A bit of lift, the right gearing, traction aids, and the correct tyres is what really adds up. On their own their benefit is certainly reduced.

Basically what I have been saying, and I agree with your summary above.

To me, driver ability is king. Be it off road, on road or the race track, this never changes. The cheapest and best way to improve your car's ability is to become a better driver. However, there is merit in what Venom has said.

Yes, Rally.
I agree with with both your statements.

Of course, as others have also raised, the legality and acceptability to one's insurer must also be investigated and conformed with.

 

[El_Freddo]

Been a while...

Benny has an armrest in his L! :iconwink:

Yeah I do. It's not hard to add one!

In the meantime, we will just have to differ on this. Give me the low down torque and vLSDs in the Forester every time; I am prepared to put up with what others consider to be inadequate LR ratios. They suit me fine, for a whole swag of reasons.

Two things here Ratbag, one - I think we really need to determine what the OP's 4wd'n needs are to debate this properly. I for one know that I'd be shoving the 1.59:1 low range into what ever DR subi I've got for the likes of my offroading!
Two - torque - the low range is really a mechanical change to the torque that can be provided from the engine. You can have a 5 hp single cylinder engine and still tackle some gnarly stuff if the gearing is right for the application!

While i am personally tempted to say gearing is king, thinking on it the real king is the synergy between a number of carefully selected vehicle modifications. A bit of lift, the right gearing, traction aids, and the correct tyres is what really adds up. On their own their benefit is certainly reduced.

Which I think really is key to any offroading application - building up your ride to suit your type of offroading needs. I would say that ours are a little more "in depth" than many on here.

Also what Rally says about the driver being king rings true with me. Just take a look at those jacked up tonka toys that have been paid via credit card and the work been done by the likes of ArrB... Need I say more?

How about this for an off road comparison then.

Stock EA82 Carb D/R Part time 4wd

vs

Stock EA82T MPFI D/R Fulltime 4wd.

I'd be going the stock Carb DR setup. I only say this as the DR fulltime turbo setup has the crap 1.19:1 low range gearing (from memory). Same for the PT DR turbo L series.

But with that said the 1.59:1 low range pretty much slots straight into the fulltime box, for me the added onroad stability from the AWD is a bonus and always welcome. I'm looking forward to a similar setup to what Venom's got in his liberty - I've just got to be a little more patient.

Cheers

Bennie

 

[taza]

^ I'm with ElFreddo here. A EA82 carby L-Series with it's part time 4WD, awesome low range and locking centre.
Slap in 2-4" of lift(depending on your type of offroading), some 14" rims and AT tyres. A webber carby, bump up the timing slightly and your pretty much set for most 4WD other than rock crawling or where lockers are needed

If I were to do the whole Subaru thing again I'd **** the Forester off, get an L-Series and go from there. I really do like the comfort of the Foz (can be had in the L but not with stock suspension thats older than me!) and the AWD onroad. Again that can be put in an L-Series.
I'd put in a 4" lift kit, 27" muddies, EJ25 or EJ20T, weld up the rear diff, bullbar and rear bar and I would basically be set

The Forester is a POS offroad car without modification but again I'm wanting to do alot more than what Subaru ever intended for them,. As stock and as a weekender/camping car they are amazing but for a proper offroader, loaded up, tackling all the stuff the big boys do forget it. Unless you pour thousands of dollars into it to make is really really awesome like Mr Turbo's, Kevins and Dulargarls Foresters. Theres even a few nice outbacks poking around.
along with D-Gen's WRX weapon.

 

[El_Freddo]

Slap in 2-4" of lift(depending on your type of offroading), some 14" rims and AT tyres. A webber carby, bump up the timing slightly and your pretty much set for most 4WD other than rock crawling or where lockers are needed

To finish that combo off I'd slap in a set of 4.11 ratio diffs. This will fit in very well with the 27's.

Cheers

Bennie

 

[taza]

To finish that combo off I'd slap in a set of 4.11 ratio diffs. This will fit in very well with the 27's.

Cheers

Bennie

If your redoing the gearbox then yes otherwise I wouldn't bother. Go slightly smaller tyres than 27's then.
It tempting to swap all the foz goodies into the L-Series! EJ25, foz rims, tyres, seats, interior, stereo, suspension, clutch, etc...
Would be just awesome but it won't be happening unfortunately.
It's pretty darn tempting to sell the foz but it's not worth it. Gonna run it till it's dead then get a real 4WD as that would suit my needs better.
Looking at one of these

With a setup like this!

Either Freestyle or Dual cab, tray back, canvas canopy, steel bullbar with winch to mow down people and the likes. lol LOCKERS especially and 2 fuel tanks. OMG I want one. Would take it over a subie anyday

 

[taza]

......................
Just waiting to be banned from the forum for talking such blasphemy :lol: :iconwink:
Soobs are good cars but I don't think I will actually have another offroad one. They just aren't upto the task of what I want and even when they can do it they break. It wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't poor but I don't think I've had a week straight of my Forester running this year. Not all from offroading but some it is. If I hadn't taken it offroad it would still be like new and I would be over 6k up!

Cheers,
Taza

 

[El_Freddo]

Just waiting to be banned from the forum for talking such blasphemy :lol: :iconwink:

Ya think?!

I would also say that you need to look further into the pro's and con's of these utes. I'm talking about the IFS/solid axle front end setup specifically. After that it'd be the engine combinations, known common faults and fuel efficiency.

If your redoing the gearbox then yes otherwise I wouldn't bother. Go slightly smaller tyres than 27's then.

Well I'd say that it's a critical modification to make the whole setup complete and work the best it possibly can. I'm on the road to this setup.

Cheers

Bennie

 

[taza]

Ya think?!

I would also say that you need to look further into the pro's and con's of these utes. I'm talking about the IFS/solid axle front end setup specifically. After that it'd be the engine combinations, known common faults and fuel efficiency.

Fuel economy I couldn't care less. That's one problem sorted.

I know having a car like that wouldn't be a good city car thus having two cars. Probably a nice road car like a wrx or Forester XT (onroad spec). Or if I only had the one car just don't go stupid with offroad mods so it is still alright onroad.

They don't have solid axel up front only in the rear. Common know faults I've looked into abit. Plus my father owns one so I have a good idea of what it's like. It goes like a shower of s**t compared to my gutless Foz.... that could almost be outrun by a pushbike!

and realistically to setup a Subie proper (an Outback or Foz) would cost around $30,000+ while to setup a ute for example is 2/3 of the price.

 

[stilson]

This is a pretty massive thread jacking.

 

[taza]

This is a pretty massive thread jacking.

Opps. I do get abit carried away sometimes. There is still relevant info about low range gearing and comparing Subie models in there though :iconwink:

 

[NuZo]

Who cares about thread jacking! its good to see what people think is acceptable form an off road-able vehicle.

a good read for noobs like me

Cheers,

Nuzo

 

[taza]

Who cares about thread jacking! its good to see what people think is acceptable form an off road-able vehicle.

a good read for noobs like me

Cheers,

Nuzo

Nuzo, Don't get me wrong the Soob's go good. But for my needs in the future they just aren't upto the task in comparison to the price.
Great all rounders though and are very very capable offroad, especially with some slight mods like lift and tyres :iconwink:

 

[thunder039]

Nuzo, Don't get me wrong the Soob's go good. But for my needs in the future they just aren't upto the task in comparison to the price.
Great all rounders though and are very very capable offroad, especially with some slight mods like lift and tyres :iconwink:

while sort of off topic about other 4x4's if i were to buy a compact 4x4 it would probably be a suzuki which are much off road orientated

 

[taza]

while sort of off topic about other 4x4's if i were to buy a compact 4x4 it would probably be a suzuki which are much off road orientated

Agreed. The new Grand Vitara 5 door's are amazing little cars. Through in some lift, muddies, front bar and snorkel then your set. the best bit is you can get LOCKERS for them
If I was after a more onroad orientated car that was offroad every now and again I'd buy an XV or Foz diesel.

I'm taking an XV for a drive next week so I'm keen to see what they are like

 

[NuZo]

the new XV's are alright, Lack of dual range ****s me!

mate of mine has one, and we drove it to and from sydney to melb.(so like 2000kms)

i was averaging 6.8L/100kms and 6 speed is nice. pretty gutless as it is heavy, and again no dual range.

the on board computer is the best part, im a big fan of real-time fuel economy!

 

[thunder039]

the new XV's are alright, Lack of dual range ****s me!

mate of mine has one, and we drove it to and from sydney to melb.(so like 2000kms)

i was averaging 6.8L/100kms and 6 speed is nice. pretty gutless as it is heavy, and again no dual range.

the on board computer is the best part, im a big fan of real-time fuel economy!

yep not a fan of single range manuals, which is why i am almost converted to automatics, which thus makes this thread useless to me :lol: only because i have been driving our new (04) auto forester offroad in snow etc and is much easier and better then the manual

 

[NachaLuva]

yep not a fan of single range manuals, which is why i am almost converted to automatics, which thus makes this thread useless to me :lol: only because i have been driving our new (04) auto forester offroad in snow etc and is much easier and better then the manual

Agreed, autos are very under-rated off road. Their only limitation is lack of engine braking on steep descents

 

[Rally]

As a devout defender of the manual faith, I do disagree. In addition to their engine braking, they cost more to buy, more to fix, more to maintain, use more fuel, go through brake pads and discs more quickly, are slower and cannot be push started. In addition, they require additional underbody protection and are prone to overheat in sand or when towing. Finally, they are more boring to drive.

Agreed, autos are very under-rated off road. Their only limitation is lack of engine braking on steep descents

 

[thunder039]

As a devout defender of the manual faith, I do disagree. In addition to their engine braking, they cost more to buy, more to fix, more to maintain, use more fuel, go through brake pads and discs more quickly, are slower and cannot be push started. In addition, they require additional underbody protection and are prone to overheat in sand or when towing. Finally, they are more boring to drive.

although i wouldnt say auto's are better then manuals it has certainly proved it self to be worthy, i would also say its better in the snow then my manual's and mud due being able to take off more gentle