A New Forester for Ratbag's SWMBO

Well, Folks

It's done. SWMBO approved, and so did I. They put the acid on us, as have a "sale" on ending today, and had two other enquiries. Refused a holding deposit ... So I had to grovel and gawk today. All straight underneath. Doubt that it has ever even been off the bitumen. Some parts at the rear still looked "new" - i.e. original sub-frame paint with no layer of dirt ...

Car has not been detailed; so good to see it "raw".

Take delivery next Thursday.

This is it, here.

Got a reasonable deal on the Camry, $2,500, specially when one adds back the cost of imminent repairs of the order of $1,500~2,000 ...
The dealership had already reduced their asking price by around $2,000. So not a bad deal for a 3 y.o. car with 65K Kms on it, that had a delivery price around the $44K+ mark.

The dealer didn't realise that the Forester had about $2,200 worth of additional extras until they looked at the original order in the book wallet, BUT I had :iconwink: :) :) :). The deal had been struck by then. "Too late", she cried.

No cargo barrier, but has had a Milford professionally fitted previously - mounting points are still there ...

There is no key for the Thule racks, so they will either retrieve the keys, or re-barrel them :).

Drives well, with no sign of any kind of uneven wear on the Geolandar G95s, which are around 1/2~2/3 worn. Look to be OEM tyres, spare is new, and an alloy ...

Plenty of jump in the donk, even though duck-features managed to lock it in 1st to start with ...

Talked them up a grand on the Camry trade in; and also pointed out that by saying their car has "full log book records" by necessary implication meant that the normal servicing had been done, and that the 60K Kms service hadn't been ... They wanted to argue the toss about that, but agreed to do a basic service with both oil & air filter in the price. I mentioned that I didn't think that anyone would legally interpret "full log book records" to apply to a blank log book with no record of servise therein ...

MUCH running back and forth to the manager for approval of the various negotiations ... LOL. I had told the salesman at the beginning that I was a PITA ... :lol: :ebiggrin:

Will post some phone camera photos a bit later.

Need to exchange the brand new Bosch battery in the Camry for the fairly new but unknown age Century battery in Roo2. Exactly the same size/rating.

All up, the change over price was about $3K less than I expected it might end up being, with the car being both younger and with fewer Kms on it than I expected. Has the "Sports Auto" rather than the later transmission as well.

SWMBO is currently ringing around the party line telling all her friends, so obviously approved of ...

:ebiggrin: :cool: :lildevil: :biggrin:
 
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That was a VERY close call RB, so glad you didnt stuff the lock :)

You'll get used to the convex external mirror and learn to like it for the extra vision it gives you. Is it the Driver's side or passenger? Never seen one D/S before.
 
Gidday NL

Nachaluva said:
That was a VERY close call RB, so glad you didnt stuff the lock :)
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You're not wrong ...

You'll get used to the convex external mirror and learn to like it for the extra vision it gives you. Is it the Driver's side or passenger? Never seen one D/S before.
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My thoughts also.

It is the D/S, which is quite odd, as you pointed out. Still, the car has no blind spots at all, which is great.

Even better, SWMBO likes it a lot already ... :ebiggrin:.

Got some sheep for it at the w/e, and some security wheel nuts. Nice guy at the local Autobarn gave the sheep to me for the same price I paid for mine when they were $70 off ... :biggrin:, even though not on special.
 
Gidday Kevin and Carl

Sorry, I missed you both out in the hurly-burly of the first page ... :(.

Kevin said:
Looks good RB! I'm sure SWMBO will enjoy it.
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Thanks, mate. She is having a ball, except for the key incident ... :cry: :cry:. I very nearly did the same when taking it down to the car place to have the sheep fitted.

carljwnc said:
Congratulations RB!!!:bananatoast:

I'm sure it will become a much loved car very quickly, ours sure has.:)
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Thanks, Kevin. It is the marvel of the neighbourhood, :rotfl:.
Just a very nice car, and I am sure that H's Dad would thoroughly approve of what we have achieved with his generous bequest.

I asked SWMBO yesterday if she was missing the Camry. She replied "A little bit". It's only been gone three days ... LOL!

I thought I would miss Roo1, but that quickly vanished ... :ebiggrin:

I might even get to drive it occasionally ... :iconwink:.
 
First service ...

Well, folks.

I moved this thread from the General section to the Member's Journal sub-forum, as I think it properly belongs here ... :iconwink:

Just had RonnyRoo serviced at Brighton Holden ...
71,000 kms (6 month intermediate service) - basically an oil and oil filter change, rotate the tyres and safety check - $301 later ...

As if that weren't bad enough (Ross charged me $160 for the same service on Roo2 ... both full synthetic oil), they then inform me that the brake pads are on the way out (no real surprise there) and that for ONLY $760 they can replace them ... :rotfl: :puke:

I rang Ross - $532, IF the discs need machining; $112 less if they don't ...

That mightn't sound like a lot if you say it fast, but it is 42% more expensive; or Ross is charging 70% as much, depending which way one works the figures out.

That will be the last time that RonnyRoo goes to Brighton Holden for anything.

Bugger their warranty - I will rely on the Sale of Goods Act if necessary.

That's just a rip-off all round, IMNSHO.

Priced some Bridgestones for it on the way home. $250 a corner for either ER300 or RE002. Not quite as bad as I thought it might be for 225x55 17".
Maxxis and Kumho are a bit cheaper at $185 and $225 respectively. I wouldn't even consider Firestone or Chinese Mayrun, even though the latter are far cheaper at $155 per.
 
That is a big difference, price wise alright :eek:
I'd be telling them to shove it too :cool:

And they wonder why we call them stealers instead of dealers :lildevil:

Regards
Mr Turbo
 
Gidday Mr T

Too right.

Easy to see where the extra cost comes from. 7 blokes sitting around in an office the size of the workshop doing bookings and paperwork ...

Ross has one bloke who looks after the pumps, phone, keys and bills ... And about 5 mechanics/hoists. Anything technical, John puts Ross on the line. Ross does the parts ordering himself.

I believe it's called "efficiency" ... :iconwink: :ebiggrin: :lol: :raz:
 
^^ Adding to that, it appears very unlikely to me that the BACK brake pads have worn out in only 70,000 kms ... Front pads I can believe, but the back brakes take about 10% of the braking force in most cars. I might be wrong, but IMNSHO, the back brake pads should last far longer than the front pads ...

Interesting that the Subaru end of warranty inspection only 1,200 kms ago didn't notice anything about the brakes, or pads ...

Also just ran my fingers over the discs. Not only do they look fine, they feel as smooth as a baby's bottom ... Now where does Brighton Holden get the idea that the discs need machining from? I can't recall ever having a car that had disc rotors in as good condition as these appear to be.

Do they machine them every time someone has new pads, and then hit them up for rotors as well after one or two pad changes? Having machined the useful life out of the originals unnecessarily ...

Just checked the rotors on Roo2. They are about the same condition as those on RonnyRoo - i.e. smooth, with minimal to zero sign of scoring.

In 18 years and 234,000 kms, Roo1 never had the rotors skimmed, and the brakes worked like new.

Rogues and scoundrels? I am starting to think that this might be the case ...
 
Ratbag said:
^^ Adding to that, it appears very unlikely to me that the BACK brake pads have worn out in only 70,000 kms ... Front pads I can believe, but the back brakes take about 10% of the braking force in most cars. I might be wrong, but IMNSHO, the back brake pads should last far longer than the front pads ...
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I know it seems to defy logic both cars I owned before the Forester ('89 Magna & '97 Camry) wore the rear pads quicker than the fronts. The Camry rears were replaced at 180,000km and the fronts replaced with about 60% wear at 231,000km because I got the rotors machined. The Magna's rears used to last about 45,000km and the fronts about 55,000km. 70,000km seems way too early for a pad replacement for a Forester from my experience but who knows how they have been treated. Mine is still on the original pads with plenty of life left at 227,000km.
 
Gidday Guzzla

Thanks for that info. Interesting observations. I agree that previous treatment might affect the life, but given that the car is in excellent condition in every other respect, and the brake rotors are as smooth as, it doesn't look to me as if they have spent their life riding the brakes - but always a possibility with an automatic car, I understand.

Our '93 Camry's original OEM brake pads wore out at a bit over 80,000 kms, taking out the front rotors at the same time. Apparently, the pads were harder than the OEM rotors. Terrific ... :huh: :surprised: :madred: :yell: :puke:

The rear drums never needed other than routine cleaning and periodic manual adjustment.

It will be interesting to hear what Mentone Subaru say on Monday about their failure to notice the brake pads nearing EoL during their end of warranty inspection only 1,200 kms ago ...

It will also be interesting to see what Ross says about the need for pads and rotor machining in the next week or so ...
 
Cars just aren't as well made anymore.

I remember changing the front rotors in my old VL commodore at 430000km's and not cause they needed it cause i was fitting larger brakes:P. They'd never been machined either + the car was auto.

Our diesel foz has at it's 32thou service still have 8mm of pads left which the bloke said is basically brand new so i find it hard to believe you've wiped the pads in 70thou.
 
Biesel said:
... so i find it hard to believe you've wiped the pads in 70thou.
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So do I, Biesel. So do I.

My Impreza was on the second set of replacement pads (i.e. 3rd set) when it was sold. First set (originals) lasted 97,000. Second set 94,000 - IIRC. Third set had about 43,000 on them when I sold it. Rear brakes (drums) were cleaned and manually adjusted occasionally, just like the Camry's.

As I mentioned before, it will be interesting to get Ross's opinion on their condition. He has already told me that he doesn't like OEM pads for the Foresters. Prefers Bosch or Bendix (?) as they wear better and feel better; not so hard on the rotors; better, more progressive braking.
 
IMO, this is the first foz i've driven beingg the SH model. the foz has completely terrible brakes from factory.

We traded our 2003 model VY SS commodore for this diesel foz. the commodore was 60kg heavier but would easily out brake an SH foz even with the 195tho kms it had on it when we traded it. i've fitted an MRT master cyclinder brace which helped with the response and pedal feel but still this model is extremely under braked. I'm considering getting a set of wrx 4pot calipers and fitting them to the front. even the missus has commeted on how much less confidence she has in the brakes compared to the old commodore.
 
i changed our rear pads in our magna at 285,000ks original pads they were. unlikely at 70,000ks in your forester that they need replacing.
also when a road worthy is done in vic the inspection of the pads is that they must have enough life in them for x amount of ks, seeming you haven't done many ks in the car since you purchased it, well thats what i thought any way.....

you should run your fingers across my forester disc's (sf) they are very rough and beyond serviceable :lol:
 
Gidday Biesel & Thunder

Biesel said:
IMO, this is the first foz i've driven beingg the SH model. the foz has completely terrible brakes from factory.
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Not our experience at all. The brakes on both are extremely good. If anything, a bit too good on the SH! More particularly, the directional stability of both is superb in both wet and dry (as was my '93 Impreza ... ).

We traded our 2003 model VY SS commodore for this diesel foz. the commodore was 60kg heavier but would easily out brake an SH foz even with the 195tho kms it had on it when we traded it. i've fitted an MRT master cyclinder brace which helped with the response and pedal feel but still this model is extremely under braked. I'm considering getting a set of wrx 4pot calipers and fitting them to the front. even the missus has commeted on how much less confidence she has in the brakes compared to the old commodore.
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That sounds terrible! Sounds to me as if you should take that up with Subaru under warranty.

Anyone else feel that the Forester brakes are inadequate in any way? Interested to hear other's opinions on this.

thunder039 said:
i changed our rear pads in our magna at 285,000ks original pads they were. unlikely at 70,000ks in your forester that they need replacing.
also when a road worthy is done in vic the inspection of the pads is that they must have enough life in them for x amount of ks, seeming you haven't done many ks in the car since you purchased it, well thats what i thought any way.....
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My thoughts too, Thunder. SWMBO has done around 5,500 kms in RonnyRoo since we got it.

As I said before, it will be interesting to see what Mentone Subaru and Ross have to say about it. I may feel compelled to communicate their respective findings to the management at Brighton Holden. After all, there is always the possibility that BH service is right, that both front and rear pads are rooted, but I have big doubts about this ...

The truth will out this coming week, I guess. Will update when I have something back from the above.
 
Very interesting about the brakes. I've done my front pads twice in 100,000km I've put on my foz. I always brake hard, but since my current tyres if you brake hard at any speed above 60km/hr the wheels lock a little and the whole car moves/sways badly side to side as if it wants to roll!!! Talk about scary :censored: :eek: :shrug:

My first set of pads lasted on the front lasted around 60,000km. Which with the driving I do I am happy with that. Rear pads I've only just changed, they were the original and the car is about to hit 200,000km. Hell I've gone through more motors than brake pads lol

All the rotors are still original and have been machined once in my ownership.
 
Brakes are only as good as the tyres they are slowing.
I do find the ABS in my fox un-nerving over less than perfect surfaces.
I've never gone through a set of pads. I reduce speed with high slip angles ;)
 
Ratbag said:
Not our experience at all. The brakes on both are extremely good. If anything, a bit too good on the SH!

Anyone else feel that the Forester brakes are inadequate in any way? Interested to hear other's opinions on this.
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The brakes on my 07 Forester and any other Forester that I have driven are not as good as the brakes on our '97 Camry. There is something about the initial pedal travel and the way they don't bite as well. However unlike the Camry it it hasn't had any warping of the front rotors. You can get used to the feel of the Forester's brakes but a drive of a few other types of cars will quickly show up the Forester's brakes for what they are. See if you can get hold of a Golf GTI (or any Golf for that matter) and then I'm certain your opinion will change.
 
Guzzla: The Brakes on SWMBO's SH Work Perfectly!

Have you got it now?

IF yours don't, take it to a dealer and have them investigated ...

I have not mentioned that I am dissatisfied in any way with the braking of either of our Foresters. They both brake as well as, or better than, any other cars in the same class.

Both brake significantly better under all conditions, wet and dry, on and off road, than our Camry - dramatically better, in fact (even after fitment of the new rotors and pads ... ). The Camry also chewed out the rotors along with the first set of brake pads at around 80,000 kms - apparently, the OEM pads were harder than the OEM rotors. A new set of after-market rotors, and after-market pads improved the braking a lot, and at around 170,000 kms, had not come close to wearing out the new pads, and the rotors were like new.

Your statement that the brakes on your Camry were terrific, except for the rotors warping is interesting. I have driven a Pontiac Firebird that had this (design) problem. It was all but undrivable after a single panic stop. So what you are telling me is that you really liked the non-functional brakes of your Camry better than the "feel" of the perfectly functional brakes of the Forester ... ??

This calls to mind the statement by Wheels in their head-to-head test of the twin turbo Liberty and the Audi Quattro bi-turbo. They said that the brakes of the Audi felt better than those of the Liberty, but had no effect of any description on the relative efficacy of the brakes, in any way.

Sorry, folks. Back on Topic

What I AM concerned about is that Brighton Holden ["BH"] are telling me that both front and rear pads on the SH need to be replaced, and the rotors need to be machined, at a mere 71,000 kms. The rotors appear to be like new. They do not appear to need machining.

The car has been booked in with Mentone Subaru ["MS"] for Thursday this week. They will give me a defensible expert opinion on the service report from BH. If that report is not in accord with what BH have put on their report, I will be taking the matter up with the senior management at BH as regards their standards, and serving a letter of demand on them to cover the cost of the inspection by MS.

This is all supposition at this time.
Thursday will show what the truth of the matter is, one way or another.
 
Ratbag said:
Guzzla: The Brakes on SWMBO's SH Work Perfectly!

Have you got it now?

Your statement that the brakes on your Camry were terrific, except for the rotors warping is interesting. I have driven a Pontiac Firebird that had this (design) problem. It was all but undrivable after a single panic stop. So what you are telling me is that you really liked the non-functional brakes of your Camry better than the "feel" of the perfectly functional brakes of the Forester ... ??
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No Ratbag, you misquote me. I didn't say the Camry's brakes are terrific. I said they feel better than the Forester's (and any of the 8 other Foresters that I can remember having driven). The difference is mainly in the initial response and a more powerful feel but they both probably have a similar stopping distance. However they are weak when compared with a friends 07 Golf that I drive regularly and my brother's Honda Accord Euro..

Yes, I still have both cars (Forester 227,000km & Camry 346,000km) and my wife & I drive both most days. We both acknowledge similar reactions to their differences and admire them for their common traits of reliability, long component life and easy liveability. We have no intention of replacing them in the near future. The rotor warping on the fronts of the Camry was a common problem with my model and they were replaced under warranty at 110,000km after being machined 3 times. New pads were also fitted. The replacement rotors were then good but I had them machined at 341,000km because of a slight shudder and they also replaced the pads which only appeared to have about 60% wear. I reckon that is pretty good brake service. The Forester is even better in that respect because it has had no shudder and still has plenty of life left in its original pads. And it has had to tow a camper trailer over 40,000km of its life.

* Sorry for hijacking this thread :)
 
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