A New Forester for Ratbag's SWMBO

taza · Jun 17, 2012

mr turbo said:
Congrats taza on earning your full license Enjoy :biggrin:
Just make sure you don't stuff it up by racking up too many points now :iconwink:

Regards
Mr Turbo

I won't be, can't afford any fines as it is! If I wanna be an idiot I usually find a gravel track or somewhere in the bush to rip it up, do some slides or the likes :iconwink:

aware · Jun 17, 2012

Congrats Taza! If you have the same full licence experience as me, you'll notice it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever haha (except police no longer follow me hoping for me to do something wrong) - although I'd argue I've become a better driver because my mind isn't 100% concerned with stopping the car from doing 51 in a 50 zone. I'm not saying I didn't concentrate on p's though, but it's as if something has actually changed. Seems hard to actually explain though (and that contradicts my first statement... - and is better left for the P Plate thread)

Ratbag · Jun 17, 2012

Ha Taz :lol:

taza said:
Haha, that's just epic. It must of been bloody quick and cornered well.

Much, MUCH slower than Roo2.
Standing 1/4 mile of around 17.5 secs; absolute top speed of 105 mph @ 7000 rpm in top. This with an engine with 3 main bearings, and push-rod valves. Also a very highly modified engine.
It was as fast as an 1800 MGB up to the 105 mph mark (about 168 kph).

Also, it would hit a coke can with the (steel) sump guard when I ran over one ... only had about 1 3/4" ground clearance!! Combine that with a set of Veith snow tyres (worked equally well in the wet ... ), and it handled pretty well.

Yep will do. If I had a commodore I'm sure I would of had an accident or lost my licence in the past 2 years. Pretty greatful for the Foz even if it is slow as hell :ebiggrin:

Your Foz is a very good car mate.
Far better than practically anything I ever owned until I bought Roo1.

The Kimberley was a lot faster.

The 1968 LC was all but completely indestructible, and would bulldoze its way almost anywhere - towing a tandem horse float. A 2 tonne Toyota on-road truck had rear springs about an inch narrower, with 5 x 3 foot leaves. The LC had wider leaves, about a foot longer, 6 main springs and 3 overload springs. Toyota stated that it would carry a tonne ANYWHERE. They were right ...

None of the many other cars I have owned were anything like as good in all respects as your Foz.

Take care of it. Treat it with respect. It will do the same for you ... :iconwink:

guzzla · Jun 18, 2012

Ratbag said:
You can buy a new X Forester for around $32K on-road. But us oldies get very used to our creature comforts, so you add in the auto, and the luxury pack for the X series, and you're up to around the high $30Ks.

IMO none of those things adds to the comfort of a Forester (or any other car). An auto makes it easier to drive for those who can't control a clutch and throttle as well as needed and leather does nothing for comfort but is all about the look/feel/smell. And I don't know what a sunroof does - makes it easier to get melanomas I guess. If Subaru really wanted to do more for our comfort they would work on that suspension for a better controlled ride, improve the seating shape and position, especially in relation to the wheel and pedals, cut out that awful road noise and make a climate control that was always consistent and did what the controls were set at.

Ratbag · Jun 18, 2012

Gidday Guzzla

guzzla said:
IMO none of those things adds to the comfort of a Forester (or any other car). An auto makes it easier to drive for those who can't control a clutch and throttle as well as needed and leather does nothing for comfort but is all about the look/feel/smell. And I don't know what a sunroof does - makes it easier to get melanomas I guess. If Subaru really wanted to do more for our comfort they would work on that suspension for a better controlled ride, improve the seating shape and position, especially in relation to the wheel and pedals, cut out that awful road noise and make a climate control that was always consistent and did what the controls were set at.

I beg to disagree.

We both happen to appreciate the extras that come with the better equipped cars. We have both owned plenty of "poverty pack specials" in our lives.

The alloy wheels lessen the unsprung weight; and therefore add to ride comfort and handling for both pleasure and safety.
The climate control works very well, and cunningly switches off when going up steepish hills, on or off road.
The self-levelling suspension works very well.

My wife has probably driven more miles than I have in manual cars (well over a million miles ... ), and knows how to work a clutch properly, and how to drive a manual car perfectly well, thank you. She happens to prefer having an automatic, but has always used my (manual) cars as necessary ...
The 'tip-tronic' type auto in the new Forester combines the best of both worlds (for HER preferences ... ).

The MY10 has a longer wheelbase than my MY06, just in case you hadn't noticed.

Etc, etc.

It is just as well that we are all different, I suppose ...

guzzla · Jun 18, 2012

Ratbag said:
Gidday Guzzla

I beg to disagree.

We both happen to appreciate the extras that come with the better equipped cars. We have both owned plenty of "poverty pack specials" in our lives.

The alloy wheels lessen the unsprung weight; and therefore add to ride comfort and handling for both pleasure and safety.
The climate control works very well, and cunningly switches off when going up steepish hills, on or off road.
The self-levelling suspension works very well.

My wife has probably driven more miles than I have in manual cars (well over a million miles ... ), and knows how to work a clutch properly, and how to drive a manual car perfectly well, thank you. She happens to prefer having an automatic, but has always used my (manual) cars as necessary ...
The 'tip-tronic' type auto in the new Forester combines the best of both worlds (for HER preferences ... ).

The MY10 has a longer wheelbase than my MY06, just in case you hadn't noticed.

Etc, etc.

It is just as well that we are all different, I suppose ...

Yeah I agree with most of what what you are saying and appreciate all those other "extras". Few have anything to do with comfort though. No-one would feel the difference of riding on alloy wheels compared with the steel (for most they're all about the looks) - in fact my brother's X rides better than my XT because my 17" wheels need harder riding lower profile tyres, and the self-levelling suspension doesn't make it ride better - it just keeps it more level with a load.

I intended to get a Forester X when I got my XT and it was the extras such as the leather Momo wheel with audio controls, 7 speaker sound with 6 stacker, fog lights, privacy glass, xenon lights etc that were like adding strawberries on the cream with the standard specs of the XT.

I don't look on the standard models as "poverty" models but they are usually the best value in a range. I had to pay $11000 more for my XT than the X and at the time the X was getting that "luxury" pack of leather/sunroof. Leather might be classed as luxury but it certainly doesn't add to comfort (especially some of the hard, slippery stuff found in most of the cheaper models from both Japan & Europe - and the Forester is the perfect example of that) and the same with the sunroof. I live in the Sunshine State (certainly not the Smart State as some of the number plates say lol) and spend most of my time trying to get out of the sun for my own comfort and health.

What the XS Forester does give with its extras is the feeling that it is not the cheapest model in the range and that makes its owners feel good. And besides you have got the best looking factory wheels on any model Forester - ever. But then I'm a bit biased because of course they are part of my 07 XT specs.

Ratbag · Jun 18, 2012

G'day again Guzzla

guzzla said:
Yeah I agree with most of what what you are saying and appreciate all those other "extras". Few have anything to do with comfort though.

Pretty hard to add that extra 100+ mm rear seat leg room to my model ... :rotfl:

No-one would feel the difference of riding on alloy wheels compared with the steel (for most they're all about the looks) - in fact my brother's X rides better than my XT because my 17" wheels need harder riding lower profile tyres, and the self-levelling suspension doesn't make it ride better - it just keeps it more level with a load.

Again, I beg to differ. unsprung weight is one of the greatest determinants of a car's comfort and handling. It is why an E-Type Jaguar has in-board rear disks to reduce the unsprung weight. The reduction of unsprung weight is one of the "holy grail" issues in car design since around the time I was born ...
I would say that anyone who can't notice the difference doesn't pay much attention to the way their car rides or handles ...
The alloys also significantly reduce the inertia of the driving wheels. This is of the order of 10+%.

I intended to get a Forester X when I got my XT and it was the extras such as the leather Momo wheel with audio controls, 7 speaker sound with 6 stacker, fog lights, privacy glass, xenon lights etc that were like adding strawberries on the cream with the standard specs of the XT.

I don't look on the standard models as "poverty" models but they are usually the best value in a range. I had to pay $11000 more for my XT than the X and at the time the X was getting that "luxury" pack of leather/sunroof. Leather might be classed as luxury but it certainly doesn't add to comfort (especially some of the hard, slippery stuff found in most of the cheaper models from both Japan & Europe - and the Forester is the perfect example of that) and the same with the sunroof. I live in the Sunshine State (certainly not the Smart State as some of the number plates say lol) and spend most of my time trying to get out of the sun for my own comfort and health.

I don't look down on the base models of anything, anytime. You are right, Subaru (and others) make very adequate cars that are eminently affordable - Good on them!

I just happen to be taken with Rally's description of his Forester as coming with the "poverty pack" :lol:

I also grew up in Queensland being driven around in cars with leather seats (very nice ones, at that. Bentley, Jaguar ... ). I do not like leather seats either. Both of us like sheepskin to sit on.

BTW, you have noticed that most (all?) Subarus with sun roofs come with an internal blind?

What the XS Forester does give with its extras is the feeling that it is not the cheapest model in the range and that makes its owners feel good. And besides you have got the best looking factory wheels on any model Forester - ever. But then I'm a bit biased because of course they are part of my 07 XT specs.

I really don't care what a car looks like. For me, it has to have high longevity and reliability, along with being safe and enjoyable to drive, and be reasonably economical while doing so. I can see that the trip computer in SWMBOs new Fox would rapidly train me to drive more frugally.

We could have bought a new turbo diesel Forester, but it would take longer than I am likely to live to save that much dough with the better fuel economy - approximately 336,000 kms, in fact ...

Even if I were to have endless supplies of money to spend on cars, I wouldn't bother. I got that out of my system a LONG time ago.

thunder039 · Jun 18, 2012

Ratbag said:
better fuel economy - approximately 336,000 kms, in fact ...

i made this same calculation a while ago before buying our latest forester (deciding between diesel x trail) and i couldnt believe how long it would take to make your money back! :surprised:

and i didnt add in the extra servicing cost with regular fuel filters and the fact that diesel is generally slightly more expensive!

Ratbag · Jun 18, 2012

Gidday Thunder

thunder039 said:
i made this same calculation a while ago before buying our latest forester (deciding between diesel x trail) and i couldnt believe how long it would take to make your money back! and i didnt add in the extra servicing cost with regular fuel filters and the fact that diesel is generally slightly more expensive!

Yeah. Whole different ball game if one is looking to buy a brand new car, but as the salesman said to us on the quiet, "You're better off with a car like this than a new one. With a new one, the instant you drive it off the lot, you do about $5,000 cold. Doesn't matter which make or model ... ".

Of course, I have known that for a very long time.

Our insurer has just agreed to an 'agreed value' of $4,100 more than the full price we paid for it as a reasonable replacement value ... :iconwink:

:ebiggrin: :ebiggrin:
That is, over and above the dealer's asking price, before the trade-in allowance :woohoo:

AND without even a token fight about it ...

:biggrin:

thunder039 · Jun 18, 2012

Ratbag said:
Gidday Thunder

Yeah. Whole different ball game if one is looking to buy a brand new car, but as the salesman said to us on the quiet, "You're better off with a car like this than a new one. With a new one, the instant you drive it off the lot, you do about $5,000 cold. Doesn't matter which make or model ... ".

Of course, I have known that for a very long time.

Our insurer has just agreed to an 'agreed value' of $4,100 more than the full price we paid for it as a reasonable replacement value ... :iconwink: :ebiggrin: :ebiggrin:
That is, over and above the dealer's asking price, before the trade-in allowance AND without even a token fight about it ... :biggrin:

we were looking at second hand also, i was just surprised how long it would take even with the super efficient turbo diesel subi's

taza · Jun 18, 2012

I did a calculation on how much I actually spent on petrol int he past 2 years. Let's say it was more than the cost of my car (10.5k I paid for it).
Diesels are only economical if you drive them carefully too, the moment you start driving them like a petrol or revving/thrashing and accellerating hard the good fuel economy goes out the doors.
With the older diesel engines too before commonrail their fuel economy wasn't all that great either but they are much more reliable.

Ratbag · Jun 18, 2012

Gidday Taz

taza said:
I did a calculation on how much I actually spent on petrol int he past 2 years. Let's say it was more than the cost of my car (10.5k I paid for it).

When I was your age, I was doing about 20~25K miles a year, but my Mini wasn't exactly a gas guzzler ... :rotfl:

Of course, this becomes less for most of us as we get older and other things take up more of our time, naturally.
This is also dependent upon whether driving is part of our employment or not.

Diesels are only economical if you drive them carefully too, the moment you start driving them like a petrol or revving/thrashing and accellerating hard the good fuel economy goes out the doors.
With the older diesel engines too before commonrail their fuel economy wasn't all that great either but they are much more reliable.

Applies to all cars, I suspect.

As for the reliability of consumer level diesels, this has yet to be established by any kind of benchmark AFAIK. I have heard some horror stories with repair bills for these engines ... Whether that has any kind of general applicability, I do not know, or profess to know. Just interested.

Almost any consumer level petrol donk will give trouble free running for at least 160K kms in normal use, by the average driver.
That sort of reliability was reserved for cars like Rolls Royce in my youth.

Before someone takes me to task about it, taxis have always been a special case ...

stilson · Jun 18, 2012

G'day RB, congrats on the new Fox, she looks a beauty.

Ratbag · Jun 18, 2012

Gidday ST

stilson said:
G'day RB, congrats on the new Fox, she looks a beauty.

Thanks, mate.
"She" is a "He" - RonnyRoo ... :poke:

:rotfl:

Will PM you, probably next w/e sometime ...

Lots to do this week :iconwink: :ebiggrin:

mr turbo · Jun 18, 2012

guzzla said:
And I don't know what a sunroof does - makes it easier to get melanomas I guess.

A sunroof can & does make for a good escape hatch, if it should ever arise.
I'm mighty sure Blue Fox will agree with me on that one.

Ratbag said:
BTW, you have noticed that most (all?) Subarus with sun roofs come with an internal blind?

Good point Ratbag :iconwink: & it's not just Subi's that have this feature either :iconwink:

But each to their own & it does come down to an individuals personal choice

Regards
Mr Turbo

Rally · Jun 18, 2012

Maybe- but everything else broke or leaked or gave trouble with monotonous regularity. I used to call on a Rolls Royce workshop. Oh dear, how disappointing. They are mechanical dinosaurs- even in the late 60's they stil had drum brakes, and into the 80's they still ran semi trailing arm rear suspension, and their pushrod engines lasted into the 90's. Not sure when they go rid of the old 3 speed autos- but that was probably the 90's as well. BUt I still have a soft spot for them- except the current model which looks hideous.

Ratbag said:
Gidday Taz

Almost any consumer level petrol donk will give trouble free running for at least 160K kms in normal use, by the average driver.
That sort of reliability was reserved for cars like Rolls Royce in my youth.

...

Ratbag · Jun 18, 2012

Gidday Rally

Rally said:
Maybe- but everything else broke or leaked or gave trouble with monotonous regularity. I used to call on a Rolls Royce workshop. Oh dear, how disappointing. They are mechanical dinosaurs- even in the late 60's they stil had drum brakes,

Those "dinosaur" drum brakes would pull a Roller up from 80 mph about a 1/10th of a second slower than a Grosser Mercedes, except that the Roller did it in a very dignified straight line ... None of the other similar vehicles even came close.

EVERY car on the road leaked like a sieve at every point in those days.
As a general rule, only using a pint of oil in only 1,000 miles was considered exceptionally good ...

One checked one's tyre pressures every week, and one's oil and water every day or so ... Brakes had to be bled all the time; master cylinders re-bored and sleeved with monotonous regularity.

Ever heard of Vibra-shock shock absorbers? Rolls Royce invented them ...

and into the 80's they still ran semi trailing arm rear suspension, and their pushrod engines lasted into the 90's. Not sure when they go rid of the old 3 speed autos- but that was probably the 90's as well. BUt I still have a soft spot for them- except the current model which looks hideous.

Our cars still have trailing arm rear suspension; thank God, or Subaru ...
Along with the other suspension design bits, the wheels can only go where they have been designed to go. Unlike many other cars, where the wheels tend to go wherever they like.

The antiquated 1966 Silver Shadow could accelerate to 80 mph and back to zero just slightly slower than an E-Type Jag ... Not all that bad.
It also handled better than the 600 Grosser Benz.

A Roller might not be a Maserati, but then it was never meant to be one.

The two Ferraris I have driven were absolute garbage by comparison, but cost more (250LM and 275LM, IIRC).

Rally · Jun 18, 2012

The difference in geometry between a semi trailing arm design, and what Subaru used up until circa 2008, is massive. Yes, the Subaru does use a trailing arm- but it is more of a strut design. While the geometry is far from perfect, it is a million miles ahead of the massive camber changing characteristics of semi trailing arm design. Just look at the IRS of all VP-VZ Commodores when laden or lowered to see the pitfalls of semi trailing arm. Thing is, the Rolls was supposed to be the best car in the world- the closest thing to automotive perfection and all that. How dare it leak oil like an untrained dog on his masters carpet.

They were still using a full chassis way after everyone else went to the far safer monocoque construction, skinny plastic steering wheels when everyone else had gone to something far more comfortable. And the indicator lens looked something off a boat trailer you'd see with a 12 foot tinny on it. I wished I never called on that workshop, I left there feeling quite deflated every time!

Ratbag · Jun 21, 2012

RonnyRoo comes home (eventually ... )

Gidday Folks

Well we picked up RonnyRoo from Brighton Holden today.

SWMBO is still very nervous as so new; and so used to driving the Camry, as I was with Roo1 (so am I after reading "War and Peace" - aka the Owner's Manual; nervous, that is ... pretty bloody complicated ... ).

'twas pissing down rain when we left the dealer straight into the mess of Nepean Highway with SWMBO driving.

Brakes are fantastic, even in the wet and miserable, slippery conditions.

But hey, the car even has reclining back seats

; LOVE the rear armrest and tray for comestibles ...

The tilt AND reach adjustable steering wheel is terrific.

The inability to display both the main odometer and trip odometer at the same time sucks - bloody accountants ... :twisted:

.

The D/S convex external mirror is alarming.
May have to get it replaced with a 'proper' flat one ...

It does look HUGE next to Roo2 in the drive ... According to the OM, it has 0.8 inches more ground clearance than Roo2 (8.7" vs 7.9" for the Oz models, according to the respective Owner's Manuals ... ). About 3 inches longer, and 2 inches wider, and a WHOPPING 4.5 inches higher ...

There is a lot more rear leg room, and the rear seats are more comfortable than in Roo2. Specially with the fold out lunch bar and centre arm rest :lol:.

AND SWMBO reckons the automatic rear seat fold down is fabulous ...

The auto box works a treat ...

So just my impressions after a very stressful end to the day (see about the drama with the keys and ignition lock in the Daily thread ... )...

And this I just cannot believe. With all the cars both new and used, that my family, myself and SWMBO have ever bought over all these years, NOT ONE has come with a full fuel tank; not ever.

Brighton Holden sent us off in RonnyRoo with a fuel tank that is absolutely chockers ...

GOOD ON THEM. THAT is what I call good customer relations.
In fact, neither of us could fault their service in any way, shape or form.

Should be able to get some photos up at the w/e. Got to do some "honest work" tomorrow ...

stilson · Jun 21, 2012

Good to hear RB.

A New Forester for Ratbag's SWMBO

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