CVT and Off-road

I think it's about the nut behind the wheel more than anything else!

I agree that a standard SH is an improvement over a standard SG; once we figure out how to program them they will be even better!
 
That's a good point Beachworm but yeah the new technologies, as well as the CVTs, seem to be new territory for me. It may actually be that the settings or the programming are a bit more on the safe zone. I haven't checked yet if FreeSSM can do some tweaking but it may not work. If it does not still, who knows, Subaru may open source the TCU module for us to properly select our gear ratio of choice.

That is also another point, Kevin. They may already know that the Outback would stall at a particular situation using that particular speed/approach. They just re-demonstrated it. Based on reviews, X-mode actually works well on lose surface but the test on the 2nd video would be much more conclusive if they tested it with X-mode off.

Subaruing, for me, at least close to stock, is very different compared to traditional 4wding with 4x4s as we are not spoiled by ladder frame, high angles, aggressive gear reduction, etc., to begin with. A different 4wding philosophy must be considered and that's why we off road our Subarus.
 
Well said ABFoz. :) CVT isn't new technology though. I worked for a Volvo dealer in about 1976 and Volvo had a small car that hardly anyone bought that had CVT. It might be new for Subaru but other manufacturers are pushing the limits in other areas that give us some hint of what the future might hold.

Things like eyesight technology and hill descent control are now standard even in the base models of many off-road capable vehicles Terrain reading and forward looking radar are in use by Landrover and others, plug-in electric motors are available in a Mitsubishi, Tesla and others and we are now seeing fully autonomous off-roaders being planned.

I predict that CVT is just a stop-gap measure and it won't be too many years in the future when a Forester comes out with fully electric drive and no gears or conventional transmission at all. Perhaps even an electric motor-in-wheel design as used in heavy earthmoving equipment could be possible
 
You're right. It may just be somewhat new for some, even myself, as many are used to driving manuals and planetary gear autos. Even for Subaru, they released Justy models with CVT and they said that's how they came up with their own type of CVT chain, as opposed to the Van Doorne one which is used by almost all other models.

Yes, for MPG purposes, the CVT is a go-to. For Subaru, since they only have a few models, it is the quickest way for them to lower their entire fleet's fuel consumption average, especially for their biggest market, the US.

An electric Subaru is a different beast though. All that available torque plus their AWD system makes it really ideal for everything that we do. Their prospective release date, according to rumours, is 2021 with the SGP, and that is after the release of Toyota's solid-state battery. Hopefully Subaru would be using that, as well.
 
The limited range and long charge time need to be overcome for them to be ideal for everything we do.

Adapting technology is, always has been and will into the future I am sure going to be the way things go. Some things are worthwhile hanging on to. Others are not. I remember in the 90’s how hard it was to get people who owned muscle cars to buy a decent ignition system. They would spend thousands on building a big hp engine, but settle for twin point distributors! People won’t move on unless it becomes fashionable even if the new technology is far superior. If upgrading a tcm costs say $2,000 to fix x mode, I still think the take up would be low. Lower than a lift kit and fancy rims for the same money.

Because of the risk of a low take up, it doesn’t make good business sense to develop the software. It was the same with the diff locker. No one could make a business case for developing a locker for a Subaru diff. It only happened because I took the risk and invested in it. If writing a flash for the tcm isn’t commercially viable and effective, reliable, driveable, etc, which one of you will take the plunge and throw your money at it?

And remember, chances are that you cannot just do a single flash. Different spec cars would probably require their own specific flash. Yes, it’s indeed possible. Yet someone needs to make it happen
 
That's exactly it Rally. We need someone with the passion and the resources. I have the passion but that alone goes nowhere. :(
 
[MENTION=15881]ABFoz[/MENTION]

I agree entirely. You have a great lot of knowledge on the subject. There are certainly barriers to progress but time fixes that. It will happen sooner or later.
 
since i first saw AWD tesla car i thought : imagine what subaru AWD could do with all that torque. it would be monster. we would get it sooner or later , i would prefer sooner.
 
Big difference is that Subaru have to make money and aren’t propped up by a US government agency. So they can’t get away with making cars with poor quality control that would embarrass Soviet era car makers.
 
Beachworm said:
Perhaps even an electric motor-in-wheel design as used in heavy earthmoving equipment could be possible
Click to expand...

The key word in this bit is Heavy. Which electriic motors are, relatively speaking.
Add to that the problems of shock and there's your reasons why we won't see in-wheel electric motors on consumer products any time soon. Much, much easier and more reliable to stick the electric motors on the other end of the suspension.

(I've been reading about electric power for vehicles for years in my search for a good power assist bicycle. The best options are still frame mounted as opposed to hub motors. There was a very impressive hub motor developed in Australia a number of years back, the university involved took it private and I haven't found anything much about it since).

I think the CVT transmission and AWD will be used in conjunction with an electric motor when Subaru go mainstream with electrics, unless they are incredibly shortsighted. It's a lot of investment money to throw down the toilet otherwise.
 
Ben Up North said:
The key word in this bit is Heavy. Which electriic motors are, relatively speaking.
Add to that the problems of shock and there's your reasons why we won't see in-wheel electric motors on consumer products any time soon. Much, much easier and more reliable to stick the electric motors on the other end of the suspension.

I think the CVT transmission and AWD will be used in conjunction with an electric motor.
Click to expand...

At this present time, all this is true but imagine the simplicity of a vehicle with no transmission at all (because an electric motor develops maximum torque at zero revs, it's likely that a transmission would be redundant), no drive axles and the ability to manage torque to each wheel independently.

All the barriers to this as you mentioned above will inevitably be overcome in time as many other barriers in mettalurgy and engineering have been overcome in the past. The driving force has always been and will continue to be economic. Electric vehicles were superior to the first internal combustion cars but the economics of oil supressed development of electric cars. As oil is a dwindling resource it will continue to become more and more expensive and electricity, due to the development and refinement of solar technology will become cheaper and more practical. Advances in electronics (especially miniaturisation), mettalurgy, and magnetic materials will reduce the negative impact of weight, shock, vibration, battery life, charging time and all the other barriers.

The advances in the last 10 years have been incredible. The next ten years maybe more. Ten years ago, who would have thought that an electric car could go 400Km without recharging and be able to drag off a supercar? Who would have thought that an electric vehicle with motor-in-hub and solar charging would be able to trundle around rough terrain on Mars for years without a problem? Why would this technology stop advancing?
 
No doubt about it. Those Mars rovers are out of this world.

Sorry,
 
Father's day isn't until sunday. Stop that Dad!
 
My 2 cents worth as a SJ CVT owner.

In the second video I think my forester would have gotten up that incline. Its hard to tell as things look different in videos. I think once the diagonal wheels started spinning/braking I would have given it a little more throttle in a steady manor. So that the wheels with traction would have had more torque (i think i am using the correct terminology here) to move the car forward.

Having said that I have been in situations where the wheels with traction can't get enough torque to move the car forward. A few weeks ago I went for a drive with my cousin (Amorok 4x4 with rear diff lockers). I got 1/4 of the way up a very steep uneven incline and this exact thing happened, 2 wheels spinning/braking and the car would not move forward. My cousin did it no issues with the rear diff lock on. But that is no surprise.

The thing i like about the CVT is the smooth gear transition without losing power while climbing a steep hill.

Overall i think the SJ/CVT/X-mode is great. Obviously i'm not going to win any 4X4 competitions with it, but it does everything i need it to do.

P.S. This has been a great thread to read.
 
So Temmah, are you coming on the October long weekend trip? We can see how it deals with that hill!
 
Haha unfortunately I'm returning from Singapore that weekend. But I promise I will come in the near future.
 
Rally said:
So Temmah, are you coming on the October long weekend trip? We can see how it deals with that hill!
Click to expand...
That would be great if anyone with SJ CVT will try same hill. And you ofcourse let us know in video how it ended.
 
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