What factors make Off Road Ability?

@Ben Up North Ben, that car will be a classic within 10-15 years, and worth a fortune if in concours condition.

Of course, my chances of living another 10-15 years are practically zero, so these things are sort of dependent on other things as well.

Enjoy it for what it is! As you patently are.

I sort of 'accidentally' bought another camera a couple of days ago ... ;) .
 
worth a fortune if in concours condition.
Poor girl will never be that way again. She's had a fair whack in the side at one stage and a poopy paint job when they replaced the quarter panel. I'm guessing Mick (first owner) might have missed a corner one day, and landed on a rock at the same time as there's a fair dent underneath too.
She's straight though, drives like a bullet (in the direction you point it) at any speed I've tried, no funny feelings (wobbles/vibrations/oddness etc) at all.
not sure if a bullet is the right term, but I reckon it fits

Enjoy it for what it is! As you patently are.

Absolutely! :D

I sort of 'accidentally' bought another camera a couple of days ago ...
Oops!
 
@scalman Other than my work vehicle, and my Ford Escape, I don't think I've ever owned a vehicle that I didn't quickly put more into it than the initial cost. That's true of most of my bicycles too...all of which are worth more than all but one of the 10 cars I've owned🙃
 
Topic reminder "what-factors-make-off-road-ability" ;)
 
Print photos? What year is it ? :D I thought this place for that so we can share our or others moments in photos or videos.
And isnt it better to buy new more expensive car for travel some offroad and dont put anything into it well almost because its new and enjoy it then some old one that needs lots work. Unless its what you like to do. But more and more so those old cars goes into past and soon it wont be allowed even to buy them or drive them on main roads because of they large not green engines.
Subaru for me was because its affordable and its fixiable on budget well older car was at least, not this one anymore sadly. Would gladly go back to my previous one if its wouldnt be rusty mess.
Im driving it but im not enjoying it like i did with previous one that i just bought from savings from couple salarys. Im not happy how its drives what it need now into repairing so it could be fine to drive, so many parts needs to be repaired or changed now so i know this all and i think many times i choose wrong model or wrong engine too complex too sensitive.
We need to enjoy our cars feel good about them for what they capable of where they can take us. For me its allways that point where i can drive to matters more not off road part of it so much.
 
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That's true of most of my bicycles too...
Funny thing about bicycles, the more you pay, the less you get.
Topic reminder "what-factors-make-off-road-ability"
Oh Poop...
...We used to off-road bicycles before BMX appeared. I used to think BMX bikes were kind of silly when they first came out.

:D
 
I love taking pics and share them but i just do it with old samsung s8 that cost maybe 50 euros. And my both bycicles cost about 60 each. They do job for what i need perfectly. I would love to have proper camera just for zoom as i need that sometimes. But i think with time we will have proper zooms on phones on budget line as we have now on premium.

Thats how "capable" this car is now in snow. Aftee car stopped i tried to go reverse then forward and repeated that many times with pedal to floor. Nothing happened. Revs just kept not raising.
I hope all this just because my cyl 2 ,4 roughness and bad fuel mix,if not then i duno what else is wrong there.
Why car cant move even with bad fuel mix or whatever engine still revs ok after about 1.5k revs , but until that it has so much lag that i coulf get stuck just on any snow now. Its not even funny .
That was pedal to metal im not joking there. I was stuck. Needed to dig up more snow from wheels so it could move little by little. I blame ECU for all that. Ok even if engine dont work great it has power in it, so why not give that to gearbox and to wheels. But no . I guess u get this then.
 
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I think this post is now way off topic. I don't think any of those videos show real world off road ability. There are too many variables to make any solid conclusions from them.
Greensuby.
 
That's a fair call.
 
Did I open this parenthetical? :eek: I will try to keep this on topic though.

I just pointed out the difference in shocks. I am installing those on my 4Runner; they are not available for Subarus, nor is my 4Runner old.

As for lots of money on old vehicles to offroad them, this is kinda national sport around here. People would take a 1990s pickup and build what they call a pre-runner out of it. A prerunner is a vehicle used by desert race drivers to prerun a race course, most famously the Baja 1000. Of course, some just use another trophy truck (but each of those can cost 1 mln hence the utility of a prerunner). Most prerunner style vehicles are just built for the cool looks and don't cost nearly as much. But some people are serious about them. You can find youtube videos, big jumps and all.

A prerunner is built by installing a long travel suspension aiming at up to 20" up front and 30" of travel in the rear. So that's 50 cm front and 75 cm rear travel. The trophy trucks are normally 2WD, you don't need 4WD if you can carry enough speed. But to do that you need LOTS of wheel travel and extreme strength. For this reason, people spend 10-20-30-40,000 $ to turn a 5-10,000$ old truck into a capable race machine. So offroad capability on race vehicles derives first and above all from the suspension. Of course, you need a strong build, a powerful motor, and a good driver.

Here is one example:

These vehicles can be street legal in some states, like AZ, but they are said to be a real pain to drive on the road.

A second group of enthusiasts apply the same idea to rock crawling. This is even more popular in that there are places to practice in many more states. Serious folks will get an older low-end Wrangler and basically leave nothing but the frame and the body. Everything else, even motor and transmission may get replaced. So they bury tens of thousands of dollars into 10-30,000$ Wranglers. As with race trucks, so with rock crawlers suspensions alone cost 5 figures. Newer Wranglers cost more but you would not want a top of the line model if you will strip it completely. The video actually shows newer models but still gives you an idea of what the sport is like:

Here are 2 extreme trails that are 2 hours from my house:

A third group is the mud-trucks in the Southeast. I know nothing about this kind of offroading though.

A fourth way to throw lots and lots of money on toys is to buy a UTV. UTVs begin at around 20,000 for good sporty models.

To stay on topic, the common denominator between all four categories is suspension which is at the very heart of any vehicle from any of these four categories.

This is not true for the Australian 4x4 show that many watch on Youtube here, including myself on occasion. Suspensions on that show are used just to get the job done and the vehicles on the show are far too heavy to do any racing or serious by US standards rock crawling. Instead the focus is overlanding: getting to awesome places while having some fun "wheeling." In the US, the "wheeling" itself is the only goal for the 4 categories described above.

Here is an example of that, too:

Overland and sightseeing in the US is done by different people using different vehicles, usually mildly modified or, in some rare cases, built like Australian overland vehicles because they look cool even though that kind of build is not really necessary in the US (maybe in Alaska). The latter type of vehicle is generally associated with social media.

And finally an example of the social media offroading phenomenon: btw, I have driven that trail in my Outback.
 
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@MiddleAgeSubie Good summary, MAS.

There are also distance differences between the USA and here, and I know that you are well aware of these.

Nacha's photo that showed "nearest fuel" being around 500-700 kms in any direction demonstrates this remoteness difference well.

It can be cheaper to ditch a brand new vehicle here than it is to recover it in many parts of Australia.

Many of our modifications here are predicated on the vast distances 'between drinks' here.
 
I totally agree, @Ratbag. But here those mods are mainly predicated on the coolness factor as they are not really needed. You can definitely use an Australian style vehicle here, but you don't have to. It is a choice, and an expensive one at that. For you, it is a necessity.

Btw, I added examples by way of youtube videos.

The social media offroading phenomenon is fascinating. Not sure why people enjoy putting themselves and their kids even in front of the entire world.
 
Exactly.

My 1968 Landcruiser had enough fuel capacity (44 UK gallons) to go around 800 miles on road with a ton in the back (after my carburettor and intake modifications). About 500+ miles towing a tandem horse float with two horses.

How it came standard, it had a 17 UK gallon tank - not quite useless here, as intended for use where there was a static fuel supply, like farms or mining camps/mines. Just useless for long distance driving.

With its standard (1930s design) carburettor, it would only do about 13.5 MPG (UK gallon) not towing, and down to 3.5 MPG towing the horse float in slow, hilly conditions (Adelaide Hills).

Fuel economy, spare fuel and basic repair ability are essentials in Australia. Tool kit has to include an OBDC II dongle and device with software to drive it, along with other essential tools and basic repair stuff.
So is a minimum of 1L per day per person of water, for at least 5 days.

An understanding of survival skills is essential.

If in the outback, you need a big tarp for shade and visibility from the air (blue is a good colour here ... ;) ).
A GPIRB or satphone is essential.
If in scrub country where bushfires are likely, a wool blanket for protection from radiant heat (wool doesn't burn).

My old thread about Aids to Survival is a good starting place.

My trailer build thread is another.
 
Did I open this parenthetical?
Naaah, was happening long before :)

Many of our modifications here are predicated on the vast distances 'between drinks' here.

I remember when people used to measure distance in six packs.:eek:
Not me of course, couldn't bear the thought of spilling some. :cool:
 
so in this video, what makes it is subaru, just good old subaru goes up snow hill when others might have more problems there
Though from his link we could find that hes had 70% rear locker , then middle locker and even front lsd of some kind there. But i dont think in snow you need lockers anyway, you need good awd and good TC there, as in snow you dont need your wheels just spin uncontrolled. Still amazing thing if you know you can do it
 
That sounds right, wouldn't a locker actually make a vehicle slide sideways in snow? I have not been driving in urban snow for 12 years now, indeed, I only remember one such case in that period and a few snow-covered trails, but that's completely different.
 
wouldn't a locker actually make a vehicle slide sideways in snow?
Call me dopey, but I don't understand how a locker could make the vehicle slide sideways more than an open diff.
 
Call me dopey, but I don't understand how a locker could make the vehicle slide sideways more than an open diff.

What I do know is that the opposite is true offroad without snow. Not using the locker or an aggressive traction control setting can make a body on frame SUV slide sideways when it loses traction; ask me how I know that part. The Outback would never slide in similar situations, it would just spin in place.

So the above is what I do know.

However, I have read the opposite for snow/ice. I guess the idea is that when you loose traction you have two spinning wheels and so instead of just getting stopped, you start sliding in whatever direction it happens to be. Apparently, this is particularly true of vehicles with light rear ends. Not sure where I had read that years ago but I now found this: Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups - View Single Post - Lockers vs Limited Slip in Snow and Ice
 
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