My thoughts on shocks and suspension

Which shop is doing the work Stilson.
 
stilson said:
Longer koni inserts and threaded extensions on factory struts.
Click to expand...

Please throw up a build thread :biggrin: Would love to see how this is done, part numbers, and the overall compressed/extended lengths if possible :iconwink:

Is it going to include a coil over conversion? You could remove the spring perch and go for a standard coil spring diameter which would give a lot more spring options, and give more clearance to the tyre and the strut tower (if needed for more camber/caster).
 
stilson said:
Longer koni inserts and threaded extensions on factory struts.
Click to expand...

Haven't found any longer than 205 mm stroke Koni inserts…SG oem struts have 190 mm.

I ordered custom Hotbits coil-overs with 240 mm stroke front and 260 mm stroke rear, they have just been finished and should arrive within a week, I'll give you more details :iconwink:
 
???????:surprised::confused::question:
Vincent, what about your proflex setup?
Are you gonna sell that to a poor dutchman? Than I jump in my subi drive 1000km pick it up this weekend!:ebiggrin:

seriously
i am not totally satisfied with my kings and kyb in the rear. For me it is a bit to soft, especially with the heavy LPG tank in the rear.
In my VW Buggy i use a pair of hi jackers air shocks from gabriel as a helper shock. By pumping them up I can easily alter the ride hight and make the rear suspension a lot stiffer. Handy for on and off road use.

I am playing with the idea to mount those shocks as an extra in the rear of my subi. Welding will be involved then but for me it would be an ideal solution especially with the plans I have to go marocco for an offroad vacation next year. A lott of luggage wount give a saggy bottom then. Just add some air. Is this done before by somebody?
 
As some of you have read before I have now lived for 8000km with the raised King springs and KYB struts which replaced the stock self-levelling suspension on my 259,000km XT, enough to be able to make a few observations. It has improved its sealed roads behaviour remarkably, turning in so much better with little body roll, less understeer and better balance. My other car I drive nearly every day is a new Mk7 Golf, which is a benchmark in driving behaviour, and believe me, it is no let down to step back into my Forester - it's that good, just different. I have great drives through the twisties in all this range country between here and the Sunshine Coast. I certainly don't want to change the rear roll bar like others have done for their first mod and feel it might even hurt the great front/rear balance it now has. It is also much more confidence inspiring across lumpy dirt roads and the extra clearance is really appreciated. I like the more controlled ride better too. I have as much fun heading up the back tracks in the forest trails that are abundant through this area.

Negatives are the reduced articulation - it really does lift that rear wheel up on diagonal stuff so much more, and could be a turn-off for those who need it more than I do - and when I drove the other day with about 400kg of 30 loaded drink cartons in the back it no longer sat level like it used to with the self-levelling rear struts. I always liked that stock rear end for heavy loads.
 
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Guzzla,
Interested to read your comments re springs etc.
My self leveling rears failed at less than 150000kms. During their working life I found them to be self leveling only when unladen and not so great if any sort of a load was on board.
They were replaced with normal KYB struts with stronger Pedder springs.
One strut actually bent driving along the old Ghan track in 2012 causing the rear driver`s side tyre to wear severely on the inner edge before I realised the problem.
The Pedder springs I found to be fairly weak and the rear sagged badly under (not much) load.
I replaced them with Kings about 4 months ago and am very happy with the result. Car unladen sits flat and have adjusted lights such that when laden they shine straight ahead. As most unladen driving is around town the slight drop in low beam is not a problem.
Have not touched the front set up, remains standard.
Car is lifted 40 mm with a SubaXtreme kit so ground clearance is good and front wheel travel is ok as the front sway bar broke a loooong time ago and has not been replaced as yet, and with 307000kms probably won`t be.
 
Ride height should be compensated for in the shock, not the spring. The spring should be setup for desired handling.

Again, it's what Subaru owners do because it's the only (or economic and readily available) option.

The well worn path with Subaru shocks offroad is one that you just would not go down in your average offroader because you have the option to buy what suits you off the shelf. Hence why I started this thread, really wanted to know about what people are doing to get properly suited shocks. So thanks to you guys who are pioneering this stuff and sharing.
 
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I disagree Venom. The spring should control the ride height. A shocks job is to dampen the spring, hence it's proper name as damper. If you are carrying heavy loads, then the correct path would be to fit a stiffer spring, with a correctly valved damper to control it.
 
^ I agree, Rally.

It's one reason why the SLS fails - the damper is being used partly as if it were a spring.

Truly variable height suspension is a completely different can of worms.
 
You're right Rally. Springs hold it off the ground and dampers control the movement. And the level of "tension" in them plays an important part in the front/rear balance. You should see how flat mine sits and how understeer is so well controlled and how it just sticks and sticks and follows the line chosen. I'm dying to try it again on the Bridgestone Adrenalins I once used. I reckon one of the reasons my XT feels so right is these new KYB's must be perfectly valved to suit the springs. And the big bonus is it does it with 30mm of extra clearance. It's win/win. I'm so glad I did all 4 corners together and stuck with a common set up. It makes the car feel like it's properly developed and driving as a balanced unit. It kills the standard set-up. It sits absolutely level when unladened - it has the standard self-leveling xenon lights of the XT so headlight beam focusing is always correct anyhow - and it takes a good load without sagging at the back. It certainly sat perfectly when I hooked my camper trailer up to it the other day to check how that was. The 30 cartons of grog :ebiggrin: I had on last week was the leftovers from my daughter's wedding and was an extreme weight to have over the rear end. (I told them not to get so much and the bottle shop was happy to take most of it back - that's where I was heading with the load)

re. the stock self-levellers: I must have been lucky for them to have lasted 250,000km because they certainly did some work - 40,000km towing my camper trailer including across the Gibb River Road (in all my years on the road (and tracks around the far SW QLD as a kid) I've never experienced corrugations like some of that) and also Birdsville, Cameron Corner & Flinders Ranges trips, all with 3 people and the rear well loaded (but no trailer). I always noticed how the stock struts on both ends used to fade badly on some of the badly corrugated roads, even when fairly new. That has completely disappeared on these new KYB's. I feel like my Forester has a whole new life ahead of it.
 
I didn't articulate my statement very well, I don't actually agree with what came out myself ;) What I was trying to say is that it is possible to increase height or return to a factory ride height (to correct for sagging or higher loads) with a higher spring rate, without losing articulation. However it requires the right shock length, spring perch height, spring length etc. The extra coils in a higher rated spring mean that its compressible length is reduced, reducing how far the suspension can compress overall. It's compressibility (?) as a percentage of total spring length is less, so to achieve that same compressed spring length actually requires a longer overall spring. So currently yes you can go for a higher spring rate, but you lose articulation. That's a compromise forced by a lack of choice. That is my understanding anyway. A gravel rally car actually has really high spring rates, but say compared to the tarmac setup has a higher ride height and more travel. It's all about the correct shock and spring selected as a unit to achieve, as above, the right balance. Again the whole point of this discussion is that we tend to talk about springs within the realm of one choice of shock, and not choice of shock and suspension chosen as a whole unit to achieve the desired results.
 
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The teaser can only be seen if I open my mail box, sorry…but in words, its the first pic of my new set of Hotbits coil overs with 24 cm stroke front and 26 cm stroke rear :)
 
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