lift my scoobie

[Ratbag]

Gidday NL

Perhaps the mods could move some of this discussion to Tannins suspension thread so this isnt hijacked so much?

Nah. I don't think it's a bad thing to have all sides of the discussion represented here.

There are always pros and cons to everything.
IMO, it's a good thing that they are all ventilated ... That way, people can make informed decisions.

Might even lead to a solution to Tannin's problem/s.

 

[Kevin]

I have 40mm blocks, raised extra heavy duty king springs and custom struts. It's harsh when unladen, handles well when I have the rear sway bar connected (which is rare) but I do lose some articulation because of the stiffness of the suspension.

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday Kevin

What size rims/tyres are you running on?

I have discovered that SWMBO's SH running 17" alloy rims with 225/55 17 tyres is somewhat harsher than my SG running 16" alloys with 215/60 16 tyres - a just noticeable difference, but real. Suspension etc are completely stock on both.

With 4 adults in the SH on the open road, the ride in the back is a bit harsh. If the seats weren't so comfortable, it would be worse ...

I would not have thought that such a minor change would make even a slightly noticeable difference!

 

[mr turbo]

Perhaps the mods could move some of this discussion to Tannins suspension thread so this isnt hijacked so much?

I don't think it's a bad thing to have all sides of the discussion represented here.

I was thinking the same thing

Might even lead to a solution to Tannin's problem/s.

And thats another reason to why I left it here too

Regards
Mr Turbo

 

[mr turbo]

I have discovered that SWMBO's SH running 17" alloy rims with 225/55 17 tyres is somewhat harsher than my SG running 16" alloys with 215/60 16 tyres - a just noticeable difference, but real. Suspension etc are completely stock on both.

That is probably due to having more rubber between your rims & the road.
What I'm trying to say is less impact is transferred to the car due to the higher profile tyre.

Regards
Mr Turbo

 

[NachaLuva]

we don't want to be pretending that there aren't problems with lifts - my troubles provide a useful example of that. I only wish that someone had told me about these gotchas before I went ahead.

I know how you feel...I wish it had been suggested to me to get SG rear struts for my SF when I did my suspension

As you can see from other peoples lifts, there hasnt been a problem with 1" blocks AND raised springs until yours. Everyone who has done it has been very happy, the only problem has been camber adjustment for some & thats easily fixed with camber bolts.

I'm sorry you're experiencing these problems & hopefully a solution can be found soon.

BTW, I've found some front springs, but I think they're from an SF. Can anyone tell me how to recognise sf from sg?

 

[Ratbag]

^ Yeah, that's also what I attribute it to, Mr T.

I don't know why manufacturers are doing this. Marketing, perhaps?

If it weren't for the expense, I would probably go "backwards" to 15" rims with higher profile tyres on the SG. Not worried about the width. Even a 205/75 15" is still legal, and would give far better ride comfort with little to no sacrifice in handling.

[EDIT] THIS IS WRONG!! MAXIMUM INCREASE IN TYRE SIZE IS 15 MM - Thanks, Pedro ---- Still legal (24.1 mm bigger diameter, so less than the 25 mm allowable), and would correct the speedo error in my SG. Insurance company is not bothered by tyres being slightly narrower (more resistant to aquaplaning ... ). Even a 215/70 15" is legal. [END EDIT]

Don't know if there were any OEM alloys made in this size though. Going from steel to alloy has a dramatic positive effect on handling and ride, and going from alloys to steel has the opposite effect ... .

We could always swap the SG 215/60 16" alloys onto the SH. Probably improve its ride markedly ... Sell the OEM 17" alloys off the SH.

The SH has a longer wheelbase, and more rear passenger room than the SG. It's a bigger, heavier car all round. While the SH might not seem to be much bigger in dimensions, when you multiply it all out, it has a considerably greater volume than an SG. OTOH, while the SG is a bit longer than an SF, it is very similar in size. It should be more comfortable than my SG ...

We both have sheepskin seat covers in the front. That makes a huge difference IMNSHO. Sheepskin removes the high frequency vibrations that is present in all cars very effectively. Even the crappy stuff that one gets in off the shelf covers does this.

My point about the rim/tyre size difference is that it doesn't take much to effect the handling on such finely balanced cars. Remember when I had my new tyres fitted on Roo2 and the frame/four wheel alignment was done?
The frame was straight, and each of the wheels was within spec for alignment. However, each wheel was pointing in a different direction from the others. None of them were symmetrical.

This made it handle like a canal barge. A bit similar to what Tannin is describing. Floating in the lane at <80 kmh. Pulling to the P/S in the last couple of metres when stopping. Vagueness in the steering. Originally, increasing the tyre pressures in the P7s from spec to 35 psi helped a bit. After the alignment and new tyres, the car was suddenly completely different to drive. As Tannin says "handles the way I expect a Subaru to handle", or similar.

As I have said previously, I drove my '68 LC around for about 18 months or so with the front wheels about 1 1/8th inches out of alignment. Had no perceptible effect on the handling, braking or tyre wear!
Not so with our Subies ... But then, they don't handle like a badly loaded truck to start with!

 

[NachaLuva]

If it weren't for the expense, I would probably go "backwards" to 15" rims with higher profile tyres on the SG. Not worried about the width. Even a 205/75 15" is still legal, and would give far better ride comfort with little to no sacrifice in handling. Still legal (24.1 mm bigger diameter, so less than the 25 mm allowable), and would correct the speedo error in my SG. Insurance company is not bothered by tyres being slightly narrower (more resistant to aquaplaning ... ). Even a 215/70 15" is legal.

Dunno bout going 205/75 15, the higher the profile the more tyre roll so the worse the handling.

215/70 15 would be much better, or 225/65/15

Don't know if there were any OEM alloys made in this size though. Going from steel to alloy has a dramatic positive effect on handling and ride, and going from alloys to steel has the opposite effect ... .

There are OEM 15" alloys, I have a set of 4 I havent advertised yet

Bit scratched, I love the look of them but I wanted a better offset. A polish & clear coat would have them looking like new :iconwink:

 

[idw]

My lift currently on my SF foz, is raised king springs and kyb struts (of which one rear has been bent) and bigger a/t tyres. My expiriences performance wise was similar to tannin the quality of the handling went right down and the car has a lot of body roll, speed bumps are only comfortable going over at 5km/h. Once there's some weight in the boot, all the characteristics change and i'm usually happy with the ride. I'm currently fabbing 2" lift blocks and trailing arm spacers in my spare time.

The extra height has stopped me damaging things off road as well, but the down side of that is the suspension is stiff and doesn't follow the terrain as nicely as before. Also has a tendency to bounce which has pushed me off the line i wanted and in to trouble twice, kind of overcome this by modifying my approach and anticipating it, but on the other hand as well It's great to be able to bounce the wheels up small ledges.

I don't know about others but my raised king springs have sagged a little as well and become slightly more comfortable.

So i guess from my experiences of lifting, I'd still buy raised springs again as the benefits for me out weight the cons. If i was doing the lift again from the start I'd include these items

• new bump stops and boots (mine looked ok when i put them back in but soon went to heaven, ***** of a job to go back just to change them again do it to begin with)
• 1" lift blocks (mainly to counter the sag of loading up the boot, king springs are raised and don't offer extra load carrying, donkey end still saggs right down loaded up)
• rear camber correction (help keep alignment)
• raised springs
• correct length sway bar links (help with body roll)
• heavy duty rear sway bar (to curb the body roll)

Add a set of tyres that suit your needs and a few other mods like breathers extra 12v port etc and you'll have a more capable off road foz and retain more of the handling.


I'm still on the hunt for a wrx sway bar, so im only adding the better handling of the new sway bar from others experiences i don't have any first hand.

Paranoid fabrications also make 1" spacers at about half the price of subtle, difference is they are high density pollyethylenenot alloy, about the same strength wise in this application

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday NL

Dunno bout going 205/75 15, the higher the profile the more tyre roll so the worse the handling.

Very, VERY much exaggerated, I suspect. Modern tyres (since about 1970 ... ) have far better sidewall design than in the olden days.

215/70 15 would be much better, or 225/65/15

The whole point of the exercise would be to get well away from these sort of profile tyres. I don't really mind the 215/60 16"s on the SG, and they still allow for some very fast cornering indeed. I suspect that I might drive a bit more "vigorously" than you do ... :lol: :rotfl:. I have been known to come out of marked 50 km/h corners between 80-90, even in the Fox. Gotta love the gearing in the SG DR box ... Much better than it was in my Impreza.

There are OEM 15" alloys, I have a set of 4 I havent advertised yet

Bit scratched, I love the look of them but I wanted a better offset. A polish & clear coat would have them looking like new :iconwink:

Are they 5.5" or 6"?
Roo2 currently has 6.5"JJ rims. This does make a big difference as to how the sidewall flexes. The wider the rim, the less the flexion.

 

[foresttracks88]

quite the controversial thread i have started haha, mate i just want to know where the cheapest place i can get 1" lift spacers from.

i appreciate all the other comments though, its been good reading thru them and getting a better understanding of how the subbie works/handles

 

[NachaLuva]

Very, VERY much exaggerated, I suspect. Modern tyres (since about 1970 ... ) have far better sidewall design than in the olden days.

They certainly have improved by far but the higher profiles do roll more. This is the reason for the trend towards low profile tyres on new cars so when they are tested in reviews they get the best possible handling. As you know, manufacturers scrimp on everything possible yet low profile tyres are more expensive, they do it cos they know it equates to more sales.

Are they 5.5" or 6"?
Roo2 currently has 6.5"JJ rims. This does make a big difference as to how the sidewall flexes. The wider the rim, the less the flexion.

They're 6" JJJ. Not as light as the Audis but waaaay lighter than steelies :iconwink:

 

[NachaLuva]

mate i just want to know where the cheapest place i can get 1" lift spacers from.

Try these. Both US
Subtle Solutions Lift Kit - SF/SG Foz
HDPE Spacers | Paranoid Fabrications

Both Subtle & Paranoid have exc reputations :biggrin:

Note: An SF Foz uses the same as the GC8 Impreza

 

[minas01]

I have 1 inch subtle blocks with new KYB struts and lifted Dobinsons springs on my 06 Forester. Best thing I've done thus far! Handles a lot better on and off road. Ride is firmer but nothing to write home about. With camber bolts in the the rear, alignment is fine. Car sits perfectly flat if not a bit higher in the rear with the car unloaded. I suspect somethings not right with Tannins install and or components. I went with Dobinsons springs after hearing from a couple of places that Kings are prone to sagging early on. Could be the case here in the rear.
My advice would be to research research research! Lots of info on this site - don't let one persons opinions or bad experiences sway you. Make an informed decision.

 

[GTsurfer]

I have just installed NEW 30mm raised kings and new KYB stuts in my 04 XT forester the other day and it looks to sit higher in the rear also,.
Seems to still handle great and this was lowered with STI rear and front wrx springs before the lift,, around 100mm in height difference before and after.
Measured 270mm under rear diff, 250 under exhaust at rear and 230 under lowest point of exhaust at front, I have a 3" exhaust stainless which sits lower than anything else.
I am sure this height may settle with time but hopefully not
I have aftermarket sway and strut bars also.

see attached, not sure how to attach in post rather than as thumb?

 

[GTsurfer]

Please ignore "how to post photo question", I have searched and worked it out

 

[pezimm]

Still legal (24.1 mm bigger diameter, so less than the 25 mm allowable)

I thought the VIC limit of change in tyre diameter was +/- 15mm?? Is my memory playing tricks on me?

Pedro.

 

[havachat]

Hi Pedro,
Go on the VicRoads site. Cars classified MC which the Forester is can be raised a maximum of 75 mm , 50 mm suspension and 25 mm increase in tyre diameter.

 

[idw]

Hi Pedro,
Go on the VicRoads site. Cars classified MC which the Forester is

Where did you find this out on the site? I've been looking for something along this line to do with building a bullbar?

 

[pezimm]

Where did you find this out on the site? I've been looking for something along this line to do with building a bullbar?

I think the MC classification is on your compliance plate... Mine certainly is MC...

I recall in the past there was an argument about the rules that apply to MC vehicles with the exception of soft-roaders. From what I recall, the debate on the Forester being included or excluded on these MC specific rules was not finished.

Anyways, a bit of an off-topic discussion here, but in the interest of having everyone reading the thread informed, I thought it was important to mention.

Pedro.