Replace, refurbish or swap?

Tannin - this thread has a wealth of fantastic information. I hope that everybody's input helps with your decision.

Ratbag - your vehicle overall costings are just awesome! Here are my not so meticulous costings to come to basically the same conclusions:

Subaru Capital Investment Portfolio (yes, I consider them an investment) for 12 years of good honest reliable service (with very few headaches) has consisted of the following:

1984 Wagon 1800 $1500 + 1995 Liberty 2200 $8,500 Total: $10,000
Both cars were serviced every 10,000kms and had what I would call routine maintenance done as and when required.

This year we added another Subaru to our Capital Investment Portfolio.. 2000 Outback 2500 (aka Scooby2) $8,000

Swifty (the 84) was retired this year and went to Subaru Heaven. Her new owner paid $400 there was $350 refunded in rego. 12 years motoring for a capital investment of $750. The 95 Liberty has been put on light duties and the 00 Outback is our main family car.

Scooby2 when we bought her had done 170,000 kms. At 195,000, we had the timing belt done, and as a precaution the waterpump also. To me, she feels like a new car to drive, and overall we are wrapped. Her log books indicated a full service history, and clearly her previous owner treated her very well.

I am hoping (based on previous Subaru running) investment to get around 8-10 years more running out of Scooby2. So my thinking is this... 18-20 years motoring for a capital investment of all up $17,250 in 3 cars is in my reckoning why so many people... including Ratbag... are wedded to their Subarus!

Regards
 
Scooby2 said:
Tannin - this thread has a wealth of fantastic information. I hope that everybody's input helps with your decision.

Ratbag - your vehicle overall costings are just awesome!
Click to expand...
You got that right Scooby2 :)

I really like how you've looked outside the square (so to speak) regarding the comparison to costings too :)
IE: Old V's New & the 10 year period etc.

Regards
Mr Turbo
 
Why thanks Mr T. Gotta love living outside of that square! I also was very interested in Casperfromholland's thread on how many km's his original engine has done and its performance on LPG. If we were doing higher mileage every year, it would be a definite option for us, but for now, Scooby2 is just her stock standard off the shelf, in the square, Subaru :lol:
 
Yes, a very valuable thread gentlemen. Good stuff. I particularly like the costings approach.

Two engine-related things to emerge from this thread were:

1: resetting the engine control unit. I have never heard of that, tried it the other day, and the old girl seems to be nippier around town. The acid test will come with the big hill on the Creswick Road - if I can accelerate gently up that in top from 90 or 100k with a load on, she's doing OK. If I have to drop a gear to maintain my speed, it's a fail. We will see in a day or two when I'm out that way.

2: induction side clean. I picked up a can of something or other - as supplied to me by my local mechanic - and followed the directions. Well, followed the direction on the can. When I got to the end of the directions, it said "this is the end of Stage 1; now proceed to Stage 2". really!? So I made the rest of it up - let it sit for an hour or two, then went for a drive and gave it some wellie. Seemed better, but that's possibly more to do with (1) above.

By the way, to get the stuff in I removed (and later replaced) a rubber pipe on the top of the manifold, looked to me as though it might be a crankcase breather. The nipple it came off was completely clogged up with black, powdery gunk, which I removed as best I could before squirting cleaning fluid in there. Nothing seems to be broken so it must have been alright!

Now it is time to do the springs and struts. I might start a new thread for that ... er .. that would be Subaru Suspension Upgrade Thread number 1492, I think.
 
Gidday Tannin

The "right stuff" is Subaru branded UEC (Upper Engine Cleaner).

It has the full directions on the can, and tells you where to stick it :iconwink:, and when to stick it in there ... :rotfl:

Can't be bothered going and reading the can in the garage. It's too flaming cold and dark here right ATM.
 
Tannin said:
Cheers lads, helpful advce all round.

Venom, I've been taking my cars to Greg down at Regent Automotive in Main Road since I had the Mazda RX-4, which would be 1985. :eek:

One thing that might be relevant: we have been getting an engine management light for quite a while now. (Months.) According to the computer, it's the hot wire oxygen sensor. Apparently that means it could be either the sensor itself or the engine management computer. Replacing the computer is no small job, I believe. So we took a punt and replaced the sensor. No dice: the warning light came straight back. Greg and I agreed that it would be best to take it into the Subaru dealer 'cause their computer can provide more detailed and accurate readouts. But I haven't got around to it yet. They are on the other side of town and it's always a bit awkward fitting a trip over there and back into the day.

But just last night I stumbled across this thread - https://www.offroadsubarus.com/showthread.php?t=4607 - and thought "why not?" Has to be worth a try. So I have the battery disconnected at this very moment and in about 10 minutes I'll go and try it out. If the donk is good, hell, we are already past the half-way mark at 260,000k, why not try for half a million?
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Tony :poke:

I have been getting the engine sensor light since i went to Tassie 3 years ago, my mech says dont sweat it as it goes out, a common fault in our model.

cheers
Tony
 
Cheers Tony.

Yep. I had the same with a different fault for a long time - er, some years it went for. The fault reported was a minor automatic transmission failure (I forget exactly what), which was a bit of fun as the car is manual! We reset it and fiddled around a bit but it always came back after a while.

Then one day I had it in at the local Subaru Dealers - Ballarat Subaru, part of the Ballarat Holden empire - for an unrelated matter. Did I want them to look at it? Visions of clouds of banknotes floating before my etes, I said "OK". Their more advanced computer said it was something else, a sensor of some kind. (Can't remember what now. It wasn't all that important but did serve some purpose. They could just short it out or get the part and replace the sensor for $70. Hmmm ... I thought, I bet this turns into $370 before we are finished. Oh well, let's do it. To my delight, it was ready early, cost less than they had quoted, and they got abit bored and filled some time on by washing, vacuuming, and polishing the old girl. Quite a change from her usual garb, which is a thin coat of mud on the outside and a thick coat of dust on the inside. She looked a treat!

Anyway, I wasn't too impressed with the previous Subaru dealers in Ballarat whre I'd bought the car, but the new franchise was bending over backwards to impress me in case I wanted to buy a new one - and you know what, I was impressed.

I'll slip her back up there one day soon and get them to figure out what the light is this time.

Anyway, I'm off-topic, but yep: it does seem to be a common class of problem.
 
On another note i still play your old lap steel :iconwink:

I am giving my old girl an overhaul as well, costs much less than the 40k to buy a newby. I will have to get another car eventually, to tow a bigger caravan, but i think i will keep the Subee, its not worth trading and or selling.
 
Ahh .. that Tony. G'day mate. :) Good to see you.

Err .. swapped it for some tyres, didn't we? That was a long time ago. You know, chances are I don't have the tyres any more!
 
Tannin said:
Ahh .. that Tony. G'day mate. :) Good to see you.

Err .. swapped it for some tyres, didn't we? That was a long time ago. You know, chances are I don't have the tyres any more!
Click to expand...

Ahhh yeah mate thats me :lol: and seeing as i have been through a few sets myself? i doubt you still have them...
 
I'm still driving the old girl. Done 300,000 now.

Things wrong with it:
  • Timing belt replacement almost due.
  • Broken cup holder
  • No clock light (PITA to get at to replace bulb)
  • Bodywork has numerous minor dings. All very minor, but it looks a bit shabby.
  • Driver's seat badly worn. Been re-upholstered once, will need it again one day.
  • Seat belt a bit worn. Should be replaced soonish.
  • Engine management light never goes out. Tried several times to sort it. It's been like that for years. I just ignore it.
  • Spare key lost (very expensive to replace!)
  • Missing trim over wheel arch. (I have it somewhere, just never get around to putting it back on.)
  • Engine down on power a bit. It's pretty good considering the miles it's done, but it is certainly a little sluggish. Had a compression test done a while back: all cylinders down a bit from new values, as you'd expect at 300,000, but roughly the same as each other and perfectly OK for a good while yet..

Reasons I'd rather have an SG than any of the newer models(copied from an older post):
  • Visibility. Modern cars (any damn brand) have garbage all-round visibility. That's why they all have reversing cameras - 'coz the stupid back window is more like a prison slit. Tried backing a trailer when you can't even see the bloody thing? Or just judging a bit of tricky manouvering between trees or rocks?
  • Frameless windows. I love the frameless windows. Yes, they make it noisy at highway speeds but I'm used to that. Never had them before the MY05, now I'm a convert.
  • I can remove the back seat cushion and have lots of extra storage under the floor. (Typically two weeks of emergency food and water - a necessity for outback trips where you can get stuck behind a river or something.)
  • All my gear fits perfectly. I've evolved and fine-tuned a system for carring everything I need for a 6 or 8 week photography trip over the years - that's a heap of gear - without ever needing to obscure the windows and without needing a roof capsule or a trailer, and I always know where everything is. Some things I need to unpack a bit to get at, but these are all things you have to have but seldom need (e.g, winch, second spare, snatch strap, emergency water - with any luck you won't want them at all). With a new car I'd have to learn a new system. Using the exact same system every time is good 'cause I know where everything is and I very seldom forget anything.
  • Dual range transmission. Love it! Love it! Love it!
  • No BS gimmicks like touch screens and electric seats. Not interested in any of that nonsense.
  • I already have a full set of spare wheels. Very handy. You can have part-worn everyday tyres on one set and nice new off-road tyres on the other set.
  • No stupid bells and alarms and beepers! The only one on the MY05 is the seat belt warning which takes 5 minutes to short out. Not sure how easy it is to get rid of the noises in a new one. (I do bird photography, often from inside the car - you have to stay in the car or the bird flies away - which is why I can't have it making weird noises, and is also why I like the all-rond visibility and the frameless windows.)

A family member has a slightly newer Forester, MY07 or round-about, still the SG body I like, so pretty much identical except for being a different (better) colour, and having only done 120,000k. I'm thinking about buying it.

Can some kind soul remind me what differences there are between the MY05 and the later SG models? I know there wasn't much change bar the new and nicer-looking grille, but doubtless there were a couple of things.

Things I'd need to do with the new(er) one if I got it:

  • Wire in the Thumper battery, which goes in the rear footwell. ($100. Less if I do it myself.)
  • Remove the rear headrests and the rear seat. (Cost zero.)
  • Remove the cargo barrier. (Cost zero.)
  • Remove the stupid seat belt buzzer which drives me crazy when I'm opening gates. (Cost zero, time: three minutes.)
  • Tyres are roadworthy but crappy. Not a problem: I can swap them,. and I already have a set of spare rims that should fit. (Cost zero.)
  • (Optional.) One inch Lift kit. (Cost: can't remember. $600ish? Might be cheaper to buy a new one than have the old girl's blocks removed and swapped over.)
  • (Optional.) HD rear springs. (Could possibly swap those over too.)
  • Roof rack. (Yes, I could use the old one but I might lash out on a new one. Wouldn't like the old one to break one day, and a pair of cross bars won't break the bank. I've carted a heap of stuff on it, mostly building materials, and it must be 10 years old now.)

All up, not that much to do. I'm pretty tempted.
 
Tannin, the series II SG has the EJ-253 instead of the EJ-251 motor. Much wider, flatter torque curve. You would love it! I wrote a thread about it detailing some of the differences between the two engines. On my tablet ATM otherwise I would find the link for you. Search for EJ253 ...
 
EJ253 feels noticeably more powerful to drive then the EJ251. By no means an XT, but first test drive of one and you'll pick the difference.

Latest generation of Foresters actually have greatly improved visibility over the SH and nearly as good as the SG. New Outback visibility is still terrible.
 
My SG has done 243,000km's. Never gone better. It's an MY04, and I wouldn't dream of getting rid of it.

The MY07 engine is a bit better, but neither was state of the art at their respective times.

Removing the seat belt buzzer is a simple as disconnecting it at the seat. Takes 10 seconds if that.
 
its the yellow wires right?

[EDIT] I think that might be the AIRBAG wires, ST ... if so, DON'T INTERFERE with these! [end edit]
 
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Tannin, that thread is here:
https://www.offroadsubarus.com/showthread.php?t=5020

The EJ-251 gets about 80% of maximum torque at about 2,200 rpm, and drops below 90% by the mid 5,000s.

The EJ-253 is getting 80% of maximum torque by about 1,200 rpm, and is still at 90%+ at the red line at about 6,300 rpm.

The latter makes a huge difference to driveability, as Red has already said.
 
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