Teaching:

El_Freddo

El_Freddo

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Well, with the strike today to push our "honourable" premier Ted Baillieu to fulfil his election promise to make victorian teachers the best paid in the country one of my mates posted this article on bookface, I for one totally agree with what's said in the article!

For me, it's not about being the best paid, all teachers should be paid the same - what I don't agree with is the pollies putting in measures to try and gauge good teaching over poor teaching through student outcomes. This article by Ned Manning sums it up very well "Baillieu has no idea how teachers work. This goes for all forms of teaching, not just in victoria.

In the mean time, I'm still trying to break into the industry with a full time job - it's frustrating, I just need that one foot in the door, even if it's a one term contract job. One is in the pipe line for semester 2, I'm just waiting for a response to find out what the go is - hopefully it's good news all round.

Cheers

Bennie
 
Teaching ...

Gidday Bennie

Good luck with it mate.

I was a temp teacher for a term; loved it.

BUT don't start me on the politics of this ... :( :(

I have two degrees: one undergraduate, one postgraduate.
I have two professional qualifications.

I am not allowed to teach, because the bloody teachers union has got the good old 'barrier to entry' in place - a mandatory Dip Ed ...

I could teach a Dip Ed course (I am qualified to do so ... ); but I'm buggered if I'm going to do one ...

Even if I were to do so, I am still not allowed to teach computing, because I don't have a degree in I.T. - a term that wasn't even over the horizon when I started working in what would become this field. Neither was a Computing Science degree ...

I ONLY have just under 40 years experience in that field; having run my own successful business in the field for the last 20 of them.

So PLEASE don't make this a political fight - the teachers' union has no interest in the education of children AFAICS, just in protecting the monopoly that under-qualified teachers currently have on the market ...

br, J.
 
I don't know the situation in Victoria, but based on NSW and also on what I see on forums, teaching has certainly not progressed in terms of the use of the English language. I do a lot of reading, yet when reading posts on forums I have real difficulty trying to understand what has been written. Not only do the words not make sense- nor do the sentences. Anyone wishing to become a teacher certainly has a task ahead of themselves in this area.

I also find, based on talking to the kids of friends, that many teachers in NSW are either very poor, or are teaching subjects they really have no interest or knowledge of. My pet interest is Australian history- and 20th century history in particular. When I first talk to them about it, they tell be it is boring and are not interested. But when I talk about it to them- and I am no teacher- and relate it to them in a practical manner they are suddenly fascinated by it. A number have asked why their teachers could not describe history the way I have. They have a real and genuine interest in their own history and begin to appreciate it.

I am reminded of a teacher at my own school. I never had him myself, but I remember chatting to him a couple of times and thought him to be a decent bloke. Seems everyone else thought the same way as he was indeed a very popular teacher. Then one day he was riding his motorbike and he was hit by a bus. He survived the accident and returned to work. But it left him in terrible pain and had other life long injuries and in the end he took his own life. By then I had left school but brothers of friends at the school filled me in.

He was especially loved by the slower learners and the big guys who preferred sport to education. They and everyone else went to the funeral- and they were all in tears. Why- he was the only teacher who they thought really cared about them and their education. I was saddened not only because he was a good bloke, but teachers like him are worth a million dollars a year. They are very rare- their contribution is massive. If Victoria has lots of teachers like this man, then they are definitely deserving of more money.
 
Gidday Rally

Rally said:
I don't know the situation in Victoria, but based on NSW and also on what I see on forums, teaching has certainly not progressed in terms of the use of the English language.
Click to expand...

Teachers who cannot read, spell and write properly see nothing wrong with pupils who cannot read, spell and write properly ...

And your story of that teacher strikes a chord with me.

ALL University courses teach the same things - it is only the factual content that differs. Some course require higher levels of knowledge of that content than others (Anatomy and Physiology in Medicine spring to mind - one has to get it perfect for six years ... ).
 
its not even closely funny how terrible politics are in australia at the moment there is so much to discuss on this topic that i am not even going to bother starting.
so good luck bennie with the job i know i am going to have a hell of time trying to find a job in my field (environment) :neutral:
 
Teacher union bashing...

Ratbag, mate...

If you don't want to make something political ... then don't post a political diatribe...

I remember the period when I trained as a teacher, and the previous years, when anyone's mum / dad could be employed off the street, qualifications not required.

In my 30 plus years associated with teaching the only group I have seen consistently fight for better quality education conditions for kids to learn in have been the teachers unions.

Also, virtually invariably the most committed teachers I have known were also active unionists, such as my late wife.

I can add up and subtract, and probably have a fair knowledge of how to minimise tax, but don't expect to be employed as an accountant.

Likewise, I have forgotten more about building design than most will ever know, but don't expect to call myself an architect.

When I was involved in teaching I taught outdoor education based on my experience, but wouldn't expect to get a gig at that area over someone like Bennie, who has a qualification in that area.

As to qualifications to teach in particular areas, DSE (Dep't of School Education) insist that teachers must be prepared to teach any area to a level 2 years below that at which they taught. So, if you had a teaching qualification, you would NOT be banned from teaching in areas such as I T, if that is an area in which you have qualifications.

The problem today is that young teachers like Bennie can't get a start, because ratios in schools have been reduced to such an extent that there are no vacancies opening up.

As to 'performance based pay' how exactly would one measure that in areas where the social demographic makes school primarily a 'social control centre'? It is hard enough for teachers to survive in such situations - let alone get great results. And yet I know teachers in such schools who continually attempt to engage with students.

They are GREAT teachers, and yet this will never show in results.
IMO they are also entitled to professional respect to the extent that acknowledges that they are qualified professionals whose job can't just be done by any of us who think we can - however exceptional some individuals may be. No system can be based on the exception which 'proves the rule'.
 
I see a couple of posts have gone up since I started responding to Ratbags post at #2.
I willl just say that the views of those without experience through having kids in school doesn't accord with my direct experience through having 2 in both primary and secondary government schools over the past 16 years.
Also, I will be off line for a couple of days, so apols if I don't respond. Happy to discuss further later.
Will just say that I really feel for Scott (Bennie) and hope he scores a job soon. The students of Victoria are the poorer that he has missed out thus far.
 
thunder039 said:
its not even closely funny how terrible politics are in australia at the moment there is so much to discuss on this topic that i am not even going to bother starting.
so good luck bennie with the job i know i am going to have a hell of time trying to find a job in my field (environment) :neutral:
Click to expand...

x2 in all respects.
 
What Universities teach, often remedially ...

Gidday Barry

Barry said:
Ratbag, mate...

If you don't want to make something political ... then don't post a political diatribe...

I remember the period when I trained as a teacher, and the previous years, when anyone's mum / dad could be employed off the street, qualifications not required.
Click to expand...

I am not exactly unqualified ... Double major sequences in Politics, Psychology, Accounting, Law, English at graduate and post-graduate levels (variously).

. . .

As to qualifications to teach in particular areas, DSE (Dep't of School Education) insist that teachers must be prepared to teach any area to a level 2 years below that at which they taught. So, if you had a teaching qualification, you would NOT be banned from teaching in areas such as I T, if that is an area in which you have qualifications.

. . .
Click to expand...

I do not have any formal qualifications in IT. The term was not even invented when I started working in the field.

Why have I just had to repeat exactly what I said in my previous post?

What do Universities teach?

1) Accurate reading and comprehension
2) Analysis (includes hypothesis formulation and testing)
3) Drawing of logical conclusions from the above
4) The ability to communicate the results of the above to others by being able to write competently and concisely

And
5) The absorption of the specific factual material relevant to the course of instruction.

IF that's a political diatribe, then so be it!

I deeply respect teaching as a profession (vocation?). Perhaps it is the lack of 'vocation' that I deplore in the teachers' union (in the main); and in not just a few of those who call themselves teachers ...

Sorry if this offends you Barry.
 
In my final year of high school I had a mix of good teachers and a mix of sh*t teachers.
One guy in particular who taught my CAD (drafting and software) class was really good. He always used real life examples, related to us students and was just a good all round bloke always helping us to try better (although he did give me a heap of s**t for offroading a Subaru :P).
I also did have another teacher who was very similar, just a great teacher but then due to some issues he was removed as our teacher for another group of students. We were then thrown in with another class group for our course and the teacher couldn't of cared less. Literally we would arrive, he would give us some work or tell us what to do and that was is. He didn't really help us if we needed it and if he did it wasn't feedback that we could use.
This cause all us students to dread the class... in the end we actually had tutoring lessons from our first teacher after school to help us accomplish our work to our satisfaction. Being a stage III course (the hardest type of course you can get) it was really helpful, he was even there for us on our final exam day. It was by no means his job to do this and he gave up his free time to help us.

Rally I'm guessing you find text message talk hard to read. hi, wats up? btw on the w/e i stole an ss

Something along those lines anyway.

My mother retained herself 7 years ago to become a teacher. She never had a permanent job, only contract from year to year for the first 3 years. Since then it was just part time work but she was offered a job in child mental health. She is now still doing that but is unable to get a permanent job teaching when she applies year after year.
With this current job in metal health she isn't even working at home, instead has to live 150km away for 4 days a week for the job then comes home for the other 3.
It is all about getting your foot in the door to begin with which can lead onto other positions.

I know in my area i'm studying in (degree in IT) I won't have issues finding a job. Uni students are being offered jobs before they finish their final year.

Good luck with it Bennie, lets hope you get it.
 
while i know little about teachine i would imagine it is simular to many other professions in which extra training is required over time and information develops over time
so thereofore ratbag you may be very qualified but because you havnt updated your education with todays standards it means that you are not qualified to teach. it is the same in the health industry
 
Gidday Thunder

thunder039 said:
while i know little about teachine i would imagine it is simular to many other professions in which extra training is required over time and information develops over time
so thereofore ratbag you may be very qualified but because you havnt updated your education with todays standards it means that you are not qualified to teach. it is the same in the health industry
Click to expand...

Sorry to disillusion you mate, but CPD (Continuing Professional Development; aka other terms as well) is part and parcel of ANY professional qualification/s.

I have, and still do, keep all of mine up to date. It is a never-ending process, as is all learning.

Do you really think that I could offer my services as an auditor if I knew nothing about modern accounting/auditing standards?

Could I really run my own successful business in computer consulting if I had stopped learning when Z80 and 8080 CPU chips were current?

Get a grip, man!
Learning begins when you have finished learning the very basics they teach you at University; using the techniques and methodology that you have (hopefully ... ) learned there.

WADR, at my age all you have become is more knowledgeable and experienced (assuming that one has not developed some awful disease such as early onset dementia, or whatever ... ).

If one refers back to the climate change thread, it is not difficult to determine who knew what, and could support it with relevant, current science ...

It is a pretty common mistake among the young to believe that they:
1) invented everything , from sex to knowledge; and
2) that anyone older than they are knows nothing about anything ...

:iconwink: :ebiggrin: :lol: :rotfl:
:poke:
 
Ratbag said:
Gidday Thunder



Sorry to disillusion you mate, but CPD (Continuing Professional Development; aka other terms as well) is part and parcel of ANY professional qualification/s.

I have, and still do, keep all of mine up to date. It is a never-ending process, as is all learning.

Do you really think that I could offer my services as an auditor if I knew nothing about modern accounting/auditing standards?

Could I really run my own successful business in computer consulting if I had stopped learning when Z80 and 8080 CPU chips were current?

Get a grip, man!
Learning begins when you have finished learning the very basics they teach you at University; using the techniques and methodology that you have (hopefully ... ) learned there.

WADR, at my age all you have become is more knowledgeable and experienced (assuming that one has not developed some awful disease such as early onset dementia, or whatever ... ).

If one refers back to the climate change thread, it is not difficult to determine who knew what, and could support it with relevant, current science ...

It is a pretty common mistake among the young to believe that they:
1) invented everything , from sex to knowledge; and
2) that anyone older than they are knows nothing about anything ...

:iconwink: :ebiggrin: :lol: :rotfl:
:poke:
Click to expand...

dont think you understood me fully, what i meant is that your qualifications with teaching have not been keept up to date not content.


where abouts are you hoping to teach bennie? and do you teach secondary or primary
 
thunder039 said:
dont think you understood me fully, what i meant is that your qualifications with teaching have not been keept up to date not content.
Click to expand...

I spend at least part of most days "teaching".

However, that tends to be in a commercial environment, where no one gives a stuff whether you are "qualified" or not. They are ONLY interested in the results you get ...

Good results - you stay in business (as I have for 20+ years).
Bad or unacceptable results - your business goes broke.

Like all businesses: deliver the goods, or go broke.
It's a hard world out there, in some ways.

A bit different from academia, where no one knows or cares who the good indifferent, or plain lousy teachers are.

We have quite a number of friends who are teachers (or have been until recently): kindergarten; primary; secondary; tertiary; post-graduate; or at the professional level (e.g. senior surgeons/physicians who teach their registrars).
It seems more than a little strange that most agree with the position that I have put here, to one degree or another.
 
although i dont disagree with a teacher payrise, i also belive be happy with what you currently get. correct me if im wrong bennie but a full time 1st yr teacher gets about 52g a year? not bad a registered nurse in victoria only get about 45g so about 7g a year more is pretty good! and in my field working for the government i only expect to get 40-45 a year so teachers arent to hard done by seeming the hours a good, plenty of holidays
 
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