Torque curve for 2.5 L Forester donk?

[Ratbag]

G'day again mate

Its abit different to driving on sand though. When going with my mate in his Outback you could smell his clutch abit due to not having the real low gearing in the soft stuff.

I think that the OB is higher geared than the Foresters; but am happy to be educated as to my error on this point ... :iconwink:. The OB is also quite a bit bigger, but I don't know how much heavier, if at all.

I managed fine due to my gearing but holding your revs unless doing over 4000rpm is hard in the soft stuff for my 2.0l in its current state and wasn't too much better when it was running t its best. The 2.5 cetainly held better but taking off and finding the right gear to be in was hard with the OB.

Driving tractors must have inculcated some things into me that I do almost without thinking. I just seem to have a feel for the right gear (mostly).

Rock crawling is abit different. Gearing is important for both accents and decents, mines fine. Just needs some more low end torque below 2000rpm... burn't out the 1st clutch trying to get up a 1 foot vertical ledge from a stop.

Methinks that the vLSD at the back of mine helps quite a lot in this sort of situation. The problem for me is to avoid taking off too "enthusiastically"; not lack of LR gearing, or torque.

I have a workshop manual and many tools for someone my age. Everything I know I have learnt myself and im proud of what I know but to pull an
engine out and apart is just abit beond me. Im happy to learn though

Isn't it a wonderful feeling when you achieve these things?
I still recall many such times during my life with pleasure.
A sense of real accomplishment.

Keep up the good work, Taz.

 

[taza]

RB, I think the gearbox you have is very similar to the Outbcks. Same low range and 3.9 diifs. The individual gears might vary slightly but not by much. Although you have a newer 2.5 with slightly more torque and power.

Thanks, I really love the feeling when accomplishing something.

When I get my locker too in the back that will help heaps but it won't currently solve the lack of power issue.

 

[Ratbag]

Mate

RB, I think the gearbox you have is very similar to the Outbcks. Same low range and 3.9 diifs. The individual gears might vary slightly but not by much. Although you have a newer 2.5 with slightly more torque and power.

I haven't checked the rest, but my Fox has 4.111:1 diffs.
Trust me, the 'slight differences' make all the difference in the world.
My Impreza was gutless below about 4000 rpm (but would "lug" quite well, if very sluggishly ... ). There are only slight differences between its gearing and that in Roo2. Roo1 had the 3.9xx:1 diff ratios; shorter 5th and longer 1st & 2nd & 3rd, IIRC.

Thanks, I really love the feeling when accomplishing something.

When I get my locker too in the back that will help heaps but it won't currently solve the lack of power issue.

Nothing beats having the right torque and the right gearing for that torque mate.

Just love how Roo2 handles itself both on and off road. Wouldn't change a thing in those departments ... :biggrin:.

 

[taza]

Mate



I haven't checked the rest, but my Fox has 4.111:1 diffs.
Trust me, the 'slight differences' make all the difference in the world.
My Impreza was gutless below about 4000 rpm (but would "lug" quite well, if very sluggishly ... ). There are only slight differences between its gearing and that in Roo2. Roo1 had the 3.9xx:1 diff ratios; shorter 5th and longer 1st & 2nd & 3rd, IIRC.



Nothing beats having the right torque and the right gearing for that torque mate.

Just love how Roo2 handles itself both on and off road. Wouldn't change a thing in those departments ... :biggrin:.

Im possitive with the EJ25 only 3.9 diffs were bought out at stock.... maybe im wrong.

Maybe you should drive over to Perth and show me just how well she goes :iconwink:

 

[Ratbag]

Im possitive with the EJ25 only 3.9 diffs were bought out at stock.... maybe im wrong.

I got the ratios from an American site ... 4.111:1 for the N/A; 4.4444:1 for the Turbo. Different ratios in the boxes though.

Maybe you should drive over to Perth and show me just how well she goes :iconwink:

Sounds like a bloody terrific idea to me mate ... :ebiggrin:.
Just need permission from my SWMBO ...

I will probably be heading for the Alice sometime in this coming winter. I have a niece & husband living there. I have an open invitation to stay ...

Gotta go to bed. Early start tomorrow.

 

[NachaLuva]

If you can Taza I'd really like to see you do option 4. I think its the best one for you & safest/most reliable when you add the S/C. It will cost more, be a lot more work, involve more stress & more downtime, but then you can flick the S/C switch & not be looking over your shoulder worried bout puffs of smoke

 

[NachaLuva]

Trust me, the gearing on mine is nigh on perfect.

That goes for the LR as well.

With the unreal torque figures at very low revs, the gearing in 1/2/3/4 LR is flaming near perfect - just IMHO, of course.

When you get on a very steep slope or a soft sand dune you will understand how Taza & myself (& other early Foz owners) appreciate the 1.447:1 LR... it is very useful & I want to get the 1.59:1 LR from a L-series in my Foz 'box to make it even better.

I have a workshop manual and many tools for someone my age. Everything I know I have learnt myself and im proud of what I know but to pull an engine out and apart is just abit beond me. Im happy to learn though

Thats great Taza. I'm sure it is very daunting to think about pulling your engine apart. But you will have some exc help from the sounds of it, plus our encouragment. & it will be so rewarding not to worry bout your engine afterwards, knowing that it has been rebuilt well, & that it can handle the extra stress of a S/C...& that you did it!!!

I got the ratios from an American site ... 4.111:1 for the N/A; 4.4444:1 for the Turbo. Different ratios in the boxes though.

I wonder if they have different diff ratios as they didnt get a dual range?

 

[Rally]

Don't be too daunted. I rebuilt my first engine (in fact the whole car was re-built)within 3 years of leaving school with no training. Read up, ask questions. Think through. Only issue though is the need for some specialty tools.

 

[Cluster Fock]

but to pull an engine out and apart is just abit beond me. Im happy to learn though

When ya settled in Perth and want to do it then let me know. Got a few engine rebuilds under my belt now. If I were you I would pull the motor, replace all the seals and headgasket, bang in a new clutch and chuck it back in and install your SC

 

[guzzla]

here's the gear ratio info:

The non-dual range in the US version has the same ratios as ours.

The current N/A Forester manual has the same ratios as it has had since the introduction of the 2.5 in mid 2002.

Some of the ratios of the 2.5 are shared with the 2.0. They all have the 4.111 dif and the 1.488 3rd and 1.088 4th ratios. However the 2.0 has lower 1st, 2nd & 5th ratios.

The 2.0 has 3.55 1st (2.5 has 3.454), 2.11 2nd (2.5 has 2.062) and 0.87 5th (2.5 has 0.78).

The smaller 205/70 15" tyres on the 2.0 than the 215/60 16" (2003 - 2007) and 215/65 16" (2008-2012) will make even a bigger difference to the lower gearing of the 2.0 Forester. eg the real speed / 1000rpm in 5th in a 2.0 Forester is 33.5km/h where in a 2011 Forester it is over 40km/h. That taller gearing would be noticeable by even the most insensitive driver.

The Outback 2.5 has the same ratios as the 2.5 Forester except 5th is lower at 0.825 (instead of 0.78).

 

[taza]

After doing some research into prices I think I would be looking at about $500-700 in parts.

This would include; piston rings, rod bearings, complete gasket set, main bearings, valve stem seals/guide (I think they are the same thing?), head studs and oil rings

Then theres machining the crank. Not sure what the cost of this would be or where/how to get it done.

Plus labour of someone assisting me. Guess im going to be looking at $1500 or there abouts.
It might have to wait till I start my part time job and can put some money away first.

Ive just had the timing belt (full kit with some bearings at the front done too, not sure what exactly) aand the water pump done 5000km ago.

I will get some exact prices too.

Would OEM or aftermarket be best? Or doesn't really matter?

 

[NachaLuva]

Whats involved in getting the bores ground? I'm guessing with a big carbon buildup this would be very advisable, esp if he is already pulling the crank out...

 

[Rally]

Bore & hone on a 4 cylinder hopefully not too much. There should be a number of places in Perth that do this- and the crank. Just make sure the size of the pistons matches the size of the new bore

 

[Cluster Fock]

IF you are going to go to that much effort I wouldn't bother.
Get an EJ20G (closed deck) and build that up instead.

 

[taza]

IF you are going to go to that much effort I wouldn't bother.
Get an EJ20G (closed deck) and build that up instead.

I see where your coming from. For 2k you could almost get a halfcut or another engine block, ecu, etc..

As the old saying goes; If its not broken then don't fix it.

I know a full rebuild would be best but if I fix what needs to be done. A few seals and possibly oil rings. The rest of the engine is likely to be in a decent condition for its age otherwise it wouldn't even be running the way that it is. It still has relatively low km too.
If I can get the compression back down to stock I would be happy then bolt on the SC.

Time and money are also a factor. I know most of you will disagree but I will have a good think and research into it before doing it.

If your offering to help cluster fock I will probably take you up on the offer, but we can discuss that later.

 

[taza]

Has anyone put a car on a dyno recently? When I have my Forester sorted out I would like to put it on one and get runs done ith both the charger on and off. See what shes actually pushing. Whats the cost involved?

 

[Rally]

My Impreza was on the dyno at the end of last year. Our club does runs as a group- cost varies but somewhere for around $50 for a run. Totally useless as a point of comparison as every dyno gives a different reading for the same car, even though they're "not supposed to".

Closed deck blocks might be the go for big boost engines say for drag racing, but not needed really otherwise and they do seem to have cooling issues. Semi closed blocks would be better.

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday NL

Whats involved in getting the bores ground? I'm guessing with a big carbon buildup this would be very advisable, esp if he is already pulling the crank out...

The bores only need to be heavily honed or re-bored to a standard oversize if one or more bores are:

1. Badly worn (the "lip" effect between the top of the block and the first compression ring when it is at TDC); or
2. Oval; caused by piston slap arising from undersized pistons, loose or worn gudgeon pins/bearings (aka little-end bearings), or from worn/loose crankshaft bearings (aka big-end bearings) or worn/oval crankshaft journals
3. The crankshaft bearings (aka main bearings) are worn/oval or turning in the support castings.
4. If the bores are merely carrying carbon deposits or light scoring (normal condition, IOW), a light hone at standard size will clean them up. It is normal to do this when the engine is stripped for any reason, even if the bores are basically in good condition (round, not worn, no lipping).

Fitting new standard pistons with new rings in an un-honed normal condition bore is asking for trouble. The square top edge of the top compression ring will hit the rounded edge that doesn't amount to "lipping" but is normal in an engine that has been in use. This usually causes the top ring to break.

It always pays to remember that pistons are accelerating from zero to high speed and back to zero in about 90 mms. The average speed of the piston over this distance is about 500+ metres per minute (always assuming that my rough calculations are some semblance of accurate. This is a big assumption at the end of a very long day!).

BTW Taza, valve stem seals go over the valve stem to stop oil from slipping down between the valve stem and the valve guide (bearing). The valve guide is the sleeve pressed into the cylinder head that the valve stem goes up and down in. Keeps the valve head seat aligned with the valve seat on the cylinder head.

My head hurts. Sorry if any of this is garbled. I am surprised I can type anything meaningful at all. I probably haven't ... :rotfl:

 

[NachaLuva]

So can Taza give the bores a mild hone himself just to clean em up a bit? or is this the sorta thing that should only be done by pros in a shop? I'm sure I have seen a bore honing tool somewhere

Time and money are also a factor. I know most of you will disagree but I will have a good think and research into it before doing it.

I dont disagree with that at all...do your research then make an informed decision.

Totally useless as a point of comparison as every dyno gives a different reading for the same car, even though they're "not supposed to".

Is that just different dynos or the same dyno on different days?

So it would be better for Taza to wait till hes done the S/C then do 2 runs, S/C off then on...

 

[Rally]

There is supposed to be a correction factor built into dynos to cater for temperature and humidity and such like changes.