Replacement Struts & Springs for 05 Outback

Stock+1"Kingsprings+1"Subtlesolutions lift comparisons

Stock Height:
StockHeightLarge.jpg


With King Springs ~ 1 inch (25mm): :biggrin:
Kingsprings1inchSept1Large.jpg


With King Springs & Subtlesolutions strut lift ~ 2 inches (50mm): :lildevil:
Subtlesolutions2inchtotallift1Large.jpg



Rear Right view:
2inchlift-rightrear.jpg


Front Right view:
2inchlift-rightfront.jpg
 
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Now that looks a lot better. :rock:
You must give us some feedback on how they perform when you next hit the dirt. :ebiggrin: :quitar: :biggrin:

Regards
Mr Turbo
 
Removing negative camber on rear wheels after lift

In order to eliminate the rear negative camber I have found this kit by Whitline. https://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail.php?part_number=KCA399

Looks like it will do the job, and reasonably priced as well. :)

Will possibly also get whiteline adjustable sway bar links https://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail.php?part_number=KLC047 at the same time - provided I can clarify the 'race use only' / NVH comment in the catalogue.

(However, I can't see why it would be a problem, provided the links are the correct length.)

That will take care of most of the issues related to tyre wear.

Will keep hunting for a front wheel kit, although that seems far less of a problem, in comparison.
 
Results of Wheel Alignment with total 2" / 50mm lift

Here (hopefully!) is a table showing the results of my wheel alignments following:
  • Fitting longer Kingsprings & rear KYB struts; and
  • Fitting subtlesolutions 1 inch strut blocks.
Beissbarth ML4600 Wheel Alignment
Vehicle specifications utilised: SUBARU Outback 2.5L 1998 - 2003
Actual Model: Subaru Outback 2.5L 2005 Model Year (Sept 2004 Build)
NOTE: ‘*’ denotes “degrees”.

SuspensiontableLarge.jpg


I have the following queries, based on the above data. Hopefully some of the suspension experts on here can help me clarify what it all means / how I can tweak it to get back within / close to specifications where possible. :confused:

QUERIES / ISSUES:

Vehicle specification selection:
Specs for 1998 – 2003 used for both alignments.
1/. Are there any differences between the wheel alignment specs for the two different models?
2/. If so, would these account for any of the specs contained in the Alignment report?

Rear Axle:
Camber
· Within spec. (Note: Camber adjustment has been fully utilised.)
Toe
· Outside spec.
1/. Is there any method to adjust the toe?
2/. What is the likely impact of the excess rear ‘toe’ on tyre wear:
- more rapid, wear evenly across the face of the tyres?
- Excessive wear on the inside / outside portion of the tread? (Which?)
3/. Would fitting a rear ‘camber kit’ – even though rear camber is within spec - assist in bringing the rear toe back within acceptable parameters?

Front Axle:
Camber
· Outside spec.
1/. Is there any method to adjust the front camber?
- Will Imprezza adjustable front strut mounts fit the Outback?
2/. What is the likely / potential impact of the degree of positive camber shown, together with the ‘excessive’ (based on 1998 – 2003 specs) additional degree of castor on steering characteristics:
- Understeer? - Oversteer? - Instability?
Toe
· Within spec.
1/. Is there any method to adjust the toe?
2/. If so, would adjusting the toe assist in improving the front camber?

 
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Have now up-loaded the table in my previous post.

Any help in sorting my suspension queries much appreciated...
 
Since you are showing so much interest, i suggest familiarising yourself with the information contained in the following link. https://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm It covers everything you need to know about wheel alignments. You should be able to answer all of your own questions with that information.

Barry said:
QUERIES / ISSUES:

Vehicle specification selection:
Specs for 1998 – 2003 used for both alignments.
1/. Are there any differences between the wheel alignment specs for the two different models? They've used Gen3 you have Gen4. However ideal Subaru alignment specs are very generic, so i wouldn't worry about it.
2/. If so, would these account for any of the specs contained in the Alignment report? Yes, you castor is very much unchanged throughout, yet it is way out of "spec". I wouldn't mind betting it is correct for your model.

Rear Axle:
Camber
· Within spec. (Note: Camber adjustment has been fully utilised.)
Toe
· Outside spec.
1/. Is there any method to adjust the toe? Toe and camber is the one adjustment, changes both at the same time.
2/. What is the likely impact of the excess rear ‘toe’ on tyre wear:
- more rapid, wear evenly across the face of the tyres? Very uneven wear and a significant impact on your tyre life.
- Excessive wear on the inside / outside portion of the tread? (Which?) Read the link and work it out :iconwink:
3/. Would fitting a rear ‘camber kit’ – even though rear camber is within spec - assist in bringing the rear toe back within acceptable parameters? Possibley, find out how much additional adjustment you achieve with aftermarket parts then you can work out if it is enough to bring your car in spec.

Front Axle:
Camber
· Outside spec.
1/. Is there any method to adjust the front camber? Yes, top bolt that holds the strut to the steering knuckle.
- Will Imprezza adjustable front strut mounts fit the Outback? Ask the manufacturer, they should be able to tell you. Ask subtle if anyone uses them with their kit.
2/. What is the likely / potential impact of the degree of positive camber shown, together with the ‘excessive’ (based on 1998 – 2003 specs) additional degree of castor on steering characteristics: More positive is good. Castor does not effect tyre wear.
- Understeer? - Oversteer? - Instability? Heavier steering at low speed, improved high speed stability. Benefits outweight the negatives.
Toe
· Within spec.
1/. Is there any method to adjust the toe? Yes, the steering rack end where it screws into the outer tie rod.
2/. If so, would adjusting the toe assist in improving the front camber? No.

Click to expand...
 
Thanks for your detailed response Venom,
I'll give Whiteline a call. Hopefully their replacement rear bushes will assist in sorting the toe.
If so, that will solve my major concern.
Barry
 
Barry said:
Here (hopefully!) is a table showing the results of my wheel alignments following:
  • Fitting longer Kingsprings & rear KYB struts; and
  • Fitting subtlesolutions 1 inch strut blocks.
Beissbarth ML4600 Wheel Alignment
Vehicle specifications utilised: SUBARU Outback 2.5L 1998 - 2003
Actual Model: Subaru Outback 2.5L 2005 Model Year (Sept 2004 Build)
NOTE: ‘*’ denotes “degrees”.

SuspensiontableLarge.jpg


I have the following queries, based on the above data. Hopefully some of the suspension experts on here can help me clarify what it all means / how I can tweak it to get back within / close to specifications where possible. :confused:

QUERIES / ISSUES:

Vehicle specification selection:
Specs for 1998 – 2003 used for both alignments.
1/. Are there any differences between the wheel alignment specs for the two different models?
2/. If so, would these account for any of the specs contained in the Alignment report?

Rear Axle:
Camber
· Within spec. (Note: Camber adjustment has been fully utilised.)
Toe
· Outside spec.
1/. Is there any method to adjust the toe?
2/. What is the likely impact of the excess rear ‘toe’ on tyre wear:
- more rapid, wear evenly across the face of the tyres?
- Excessive wear on the inside / outside portion of the tread? (Which?)
3/. Would fitting a rear ‘camber kit’ – even though rear camber is within spec - assist in bringing the rear toe back within acceptable parameters?

Front Axle:
Camber
· Outside spec.
1/. Is there any method to adjust the front camber?
- Will Imprezza adjustable front strut mounts fit the Outback?
2/. What is the likely / potential impact of the degree of positive camber shown, together with the ‘excessive’ (based on 1998 – 2003 specs) additional degree of castor on steering characteristics:
- Understeer? - Oversteer? - Instability?
Toe
· Within spec.
1/. Is there any method to adjust the toe?
2/. If so, would adjusting the toe assist in improving the front camber?
Click to expand...

Have just found this ref. to a revision of the rear toe specifications by Subaru of America on the subaruoutback.org. forum.
https://www.subaruoutback.org/forum...nions-about-outback-alignment.html#post275091

At least my toe is at the 'right end' if the spectrum.

Would be a real worry if the change was for 'positive - 0'! :p

UPDATE: The local Subaru dealership is not aware of any TSB in relation to wheel alignment for Aus. Spec Outbacks. Apparently the USA spec is completely different.

(Either way I need to reduce the negative toe by ~ 4mm...)
 
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Front strut bolt pattern compatability - Gen 3 & 4 OBW

IF these https://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail.php?part_number=KCA335&page=2 fit they should eliminate my front camber issues.

Spec is +20 seconds / -40 seconds front camber.
I am currently running +1 Degree 17 seconds LEFT +1 Degree 13 seconds RIGHT.
The adjustable top hats will provide up to an additional -1.5 Degree of camber. (According to the fitting sheet.)

This will bring my front end back to:
-13 Seconds LEFT / -17 Seconds RIGHT
The application list cuts out at the 2003 Outback - i.e. Gen3.

Does anyone know if the front strut mount bolt patterns are the same for Gen 3 & 4 Outbacks?

If so, it will make my Subtlesolutions 1" lift even better! :biggrin:

I have just spoken to Whiteline and they told me that this kit will NOT fit the Gen4 Outback.
Apparently Subaru made some minor changes to the top mounts, which means that this kit won't fit.
Typical Subaru, these minor changes between models do NOTHING for performance, just make sure that after market suppliers can't minimise costs by maximising the application of their kits.
Whiteline apparently intend to produce a strut mount camber kit for the Gen4.
 
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What is it with the Gen4 Outback, the model has been and gone, but no-one has bothered making after market parts for them! Grrrr....
 
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Having finally found my Owners Manual...

Specifications: FRONT / REAR
FRONT: Manual: +30' (I.E. 0.5 Deg.) CURRENT: +1deg.17' L. / +1deg. 13' /
REAR: Manual -0 Deg. 00' (i.e. Nil. ) CURRENT: +23'. L. / +27' R.

NOTE: Considerable differences between manual and the parameters on the alignment machine.
 
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Admittedly I know nothing serious about the science of this, but surely the 1 13' (or 1 17') isn't that big a deal if Whiteline will eventually make a kit - you could just rotate the tyres every 5000k and the extra wear wouldn't be crippling?

Also, have you fitted the swaybar links and the rear camber (and toe) kit yet?
Noticeable difference?

I just got my King Springs and Subtle Kit fitted today, (the guys who did it were NOT happy) I'm getting an alignment on Friday, and I'll take my owner's manual and hopefully get a table of it up here. I'll put pics up in the related threads soon.

If there's anything that I could try that would help you Barry, just let me know.
 
apsg said:
Admittedly I know nothing serious about the science of this, but surely the 1 13' (or 1 17') isn't that big a deal if Whiteline will eventually make a kit - you could just rotate the tyres every 5000k and the extra wear wouldn't be crippling?

Also, have you fitted the swaybar links and the rear camber (and toe) kit yet?
Noticeable difference?

I just got my King Springs and Subtle Kit fitted today, (the guys who did it were NOT happy) I'm getting an alignment on Friday, and I'll take my owner's manual and hopefully get a table of it up here. I'll put pics up in the related threads soon.

If there's anything that I could try that would help you Barry, just let me know.
Click to expand...

I know, however I just don't want to fork out for a rotation and alignment every 7 weeks - which is how long I take to do 5,000km.

Rear bushes won't be available until December - out of stock. Still trying to find clevis pins. Super Cr@p Manager (early 40s) didn't know what they were. Bloke at Bunnings said they don't stock them any more, since they no longer cqrry 'Champion' bolts.

Apols for the 'hissy', but it really sh!ts me that the Gen$ Outback is the poor cousin in the mods department. Maybe hopefully Whiteline will do the adjustable front end in the next 12 months.
Just 'my bad' for being an early adopter of the last of the moddable Subis.
 
wow, you do a lot of kms!

I understand exactly what you mean about the mods though. even with that stereo mod, i spent 25-30hours doing research to finally find an aftermarket part that would do the job, and yet there's about 8-10 equivalents for the Forester. Real pain in the....

Did you try going to a sailing shop for the clevis pins? I have some mates who are v. keen sailors and they think that'd be the place to look, apparently they're all over your average yacht...
 
apsg said:
wow, you do a lot of kms!

I understand exactly what you mean about the mods though. even with that stereo mod, i spent 25-30hours doing research to finally find an aftermarket part that would do the job, and yet there's about 8-10 equivalents for the Forester. Real pain in the....

Did you try going to a sailing shop for the clevis pins? I have some mates who are v. keen sailors and they think that'd be the place to look, apparently they're all over your average yacht...
Click to expand...

Yep, 740km week commute - 74km each way Melb - Geelong.

Relatively easy drive, but it mounts up.

Thanks for the tip, will try one of the sailing shops in Geebung tomorrow. ;)
 
Ahhh you Victorians are crazy! My brother works at the Coles head office in Glen Iris, and he tells me there's a fair few people there who commute in from Geelong.
With regard to the Clevis set up, is this roughly what you're planning? Or just the pin in the place of the bolt?
(Excuse the terribly crude drawing)
123-1.jpg



EDIT: Forget that, I just saw Lefty's thread, something like that would be nice, I'd just be unsure what you'd secure the loose link & sway bar to to stop them swinging around wildly....
 
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Look up your yellow pages for "bolts and fasteners". Find a local shop and tell them what size clevis pin you need. They have all sorts of bolts, clips, pins, shackles etc and everything will be in stock. They also sell individual bolts, nuts etc. I have learnt over the past twelve months that generic hardware/automotive shops are completely useless for buying specific nuts/bolts etc. These people know their ****, and even if they don't have what you need they'll tell you where you can go to get them.

Cheers,
Rhys
 
apsg said:
Ahhh you Victorians are crazy! My brother works at the Coles head office in Glen Iris, and he tells me there's a fair few people there who commute in from Geelong.
With regard to the Clevis set up, is this roughly what you're planning? Or just the pin in the place of the bolt?
(Excuse the terribly crude drawing)
123-1.jpg


....
Click to expand...

Excellent drawing IMO. Yep, what I have in mind.

Will tape / tie the loose link, so it doesn't flap about.


As to commuting, anyone travelling from Geebung to the 'Smoke' is MAD. Sitting in a traffic jam trevelling into the sun?!

I go the other way, cruizing along with the sun behind me, watching the 'parking lot' on the other side. :raspberry:

However, the kms for service soon add up!
 
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