Ratbag's 2006 Fox XS - Roo2

Some people put a small wind deflector on the leading edge of the basket...might help.

G'day RB,

Congratulations on the opening of your journal.

I didn't expect the basket to stay on long, will be great on your trailer and save you a small fortune in fuel.

Have a good Easter mate.

Cool, so whens the lift coming along RB? :lol:

Do you find the wind noise annoying? I guess usually I drive alone and have my music reasonably loud so it doesn't bother me. I can't drive in quite unless I feel sick or am super tied

A wind deflector is a good idea if the basket is loaded up, I think I will look into this for my next big trip when ever that is. Although at my current rate it looks like its the Aus Subaru meet up in Coffin Bay Jan 2013.

If your still looking at tyres and want all terrains with good tread you can get Yokohama Geolander AT-S in a light truck that have 16mm of thread!! Guaranteed to last atleast 80,000km. There are other options but the Geolanders seem to be the best compromise for an AT tyre for on and offroad use.

Taza

Nachaluva said:

Some people put a small wind deflector on the leading edge of the basket...might help.

Click to expand...

I was thinking the very same thing :iconwink:
You'll have to let us know how much it effects your petrol economy too mate

Regards
Mr Turbo

A wind fairing for any roof basket is a must. I took mine off once and it didn't take long for it to drive me up the wall! Makes all the difference in the world. With it on, i don't get any noise at all unless the winds are very high.

Nice, glad to see you started a Journal I can't wait to see more for the Fozzy.

-Jamie

New tyres - Michelin XM2 215/60 16"

Gidday All

4X new Michelin XM2 215/60 x 16".

Full wheel alignment.

The latter was OK for caster/camber at front, and camber at rear. Pretty much dead centre of the specs.

Toe in/out was all over the place:

FP = 2.4 mm
FD = -1.2 mm
Spec = -1.6 ~ +1.6

RP = +2.4
RD = +4.6
Spec = -0.5 ~ +2.6

No wonder that Roo2 was less than directionally stable!

With the new tyres and wheels properly aligned to pretty much centre of spec, it sure handles far better and has stopped wandering ...

Gidday NL & All

Thanks for all your positive replies and suggestions. The last week has been a tad "messy", shall I say?

Nachaluva said:

Some people put a small wind deflector on the leading edge of the basket...might help.

Click to expand...

I can probably make one, but the problem should disappear when the basket goes to live on its trailer ... :iconwink:

stilson said:

G'day RB,

Congratulations on the opening of your journal.

I didn't expect the basket to stay on long, will be great on your trailer and save you a small fortune in fuel.

Have a good Easter mate.

Click to expand...

Thanks, ST. I spent most of Easter at a client's; then all day Tuesday until 2100H fixing a DNS cache/IP address conflict - while 5 people looked over my shoulder, with nothing else to do.

After they all went home at around 1700~1730H, I finally worked out what it was. A printer had been moved from downstairs to an upstairs office. So far so good. No IP address conflict was there now? No. I set up all my small networks with static IP addresses so this can't happen. However, the print server used to be the other side of a router ...

When it moved, it was now on the same side of that router as the rest of the network (and the NAS box, in particular). Turns out that the print server was sitting on a separate IP address for the UPnP protocol. Guess what ... ? The UPnP address was the same as the NAS box ...

I fixed that and all the problems went away. The diagnostic process is a trade secret - LOL :rotfl:.

taza said:

Cool, so whens the lift coming along RB? :lol:

Do you find the wind noise annoying? I guess usually I drive alone and have my music reasonably loud so it doesn't bother me. I can't drive in quite unless I feel sick or am super tied

A wind deflector is a good idea if the basket is loaded up, I think I will look into this for my next big trip when ever that is. Although at my current rate it looks like its the Aus Subaru meet up in Coffin Bay Jan 2013.

If your still looking at tyres and want all terrains with good tread you can get Yokohama Geolander AT-S in a light truck that have 16mm of thread!! Guaranteed to last atleast 80,000km. There are other options but the Geolanders seem to be the best compromise for an AT tyre for on and offroad use.

Taza

Click to expand...

No lift, Taz. Roo2 is going to remain almost bog(ged) standard :ebiggrin:.

I like quiet cars these days ...

And "too late", she cried, the Michelins went on this morning .

mr turbo said:

I was thinking the very same thing :iconwink:
You'll have to let us know how much it effects your petrol economy too mate

Regards
Mr Turbo

Click to expand...

Mr T, the latest tank has returned 11.99L/100kms - all short trips and suburban/urban driving. Using 4th for <60 km/h. Basket on for about 120 kms of it (1/4). Will post details in my "Oils ain't oils" thread in a few days' time.

dirtyRU said:

A wind fairing for any roof basket is a must. I took mine off once and it didn't take long for it to drive me up the wall! Makes all the difference in the world. With it on, i don't get any noise at all unless the winds are very high.

Click to expand...

Thanks Matt. I can easily make one up out of half-hard aluminium if needs be. I like to listen to a Chopin Nocturne, without the Basso Continuo accompaniment also ... :biggrin:.

Cañon Carver said:

Nice, glad to see you started a Journal I can't wait to see more for the Fozzy.

-Jamie

Click to expand...

Thanks Jamie.

I hope to get some photo processing and uploading done in the next couple of weeks. Currently I have dead computers running out of my ears! One of them is moving to Qld before the end of the month, so have to get my skates on with that one!

good locking car ratbag! im assuming the new tires are road tires?

Gidday Thunder

thunder039 said:

good locking car ratbag!

Click to expand...

Thanks mate. I couldn't believe my luck when I saw it. I wasn't even looking to buy, just to get an idea of pricing for a replacement for SWMBO's Camry.

While looking, I realised that as she wants an automatic (not optional ... ). If I bought her an auto Forester and she didn't like it, I was stuck with it ... And I wanted a DR manual ... .

Anyway, I rang the dealer. Asked them to hold it for me until the next day.

Looked it over and took it for a longish test drive plus on the freeway (bloody tollway ... grrr) the next day. Paid them a $50 holding deposit until I could come back the next day and really thoroughly inspect it :iconwink: :lol:. Got a receipt, of course ...

Went back the next day with my grovelling gear on and ran every seam in the car I could reach. No signs of distress or repair.

Paid them a 'proper' deposit.

Picked up the car two days later after they had rectified minor defects I had found. Gave them a bank cheque.

I just love the car ... :iconwink: :ebiggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:. Never looked back.

To this day, I don't think that the dealer knew exactly what he had!
Yeah, he knew it was an XS, low mileage etc. But what I reckon he missed is that it has the luxury pack, without the sunroof and leather ... Makes the car much more expensive than a "standard" XS.

My insurer has now insured it for some $6,000+ more than I paid for it!

im assuming the new tires are road tires?

Click to expand...

Yes. After reading some of the reports from members about the noise and wear of the AT-s, I decided that I will rely on the inherent advantages of the technology in the car rather than on the tyres for off-road use.

Almost all the mileage I do will be on bitumen roads of some description. I am not prepared to compromise one tiny bit with on-road handling and braking for some slight advantage for the sort of off-roading I will be doing.
Nor am I prepared to compromise on tyre wear.

Also, on the Bunyip SP disaster, Nachaluva's AT-s were every bit as useless as my Pirelli P7s ...

On fuel consumption, tyres and wheel alignments

Gidday All

Since having the new tyres fitted AND the full wheel alignment done, I have noticed a vast improvement in handling (just around town). No tendency to float or drift in the lane; more precise around corners; and no tendency to pull ever so slightly to the left when stopping at lights - just during the last couple of metres before coming to a dead halt ... .

Now, what's really quite odd is that I have noticed a pronounced change in apparent fuel economy!

I watch my fuel gauge to get some idea of what my range will be.
Unlike Roo1, the gauge in Roo2 is a precise measure of fuel used and remaining. Each quarter mark represents exactly 1/5th of a tank (i.e. 12L), with the empty mark being the point at which the fuel warning light comes on, and I have exactly 1/5th of a tank left.
The gauge is very precise. The difference between the needle exactly covering the dial mark is discernibly different at a single kilometre level. That is, at (say) 99 kms, the gauge is very slightly above aligning precisely with the 3/4 mark; at 100 kms it is precisely central; and at 101 kms it is ever so slightly under the central point.

Up until now, the 3/4 mark has been at between about 96 to 100 kms.
This has been the norm after filling the tank and driving around town.

I filled the tank at 104,411 kms. Nothing unusual about the fill. Stopped at the first click, as I could hear the fuel gurgling in the filler tube - so I haven't over-filled the tank or anything like that.

The new tyres were fitted and the alignment done at 104,443 kms - i.e. 32 kms after filling the tank. Very distinct improvement in the behaviour of the car all round, including seeming to roll "more freely", for want of a better term for something that is extremely subtle.

Now then. I watched the fuel gauge needle creep towards the 3/4 mark from 113 kms onwards. It was exactly central at 115 kms; and just below central by 116 kms ... Only about 80 kms of this tank was done after the tyres and alignment.

Unless I am dreaming, this has made a huge difference to the fuel economy of Roo2. Usage has not changed at all since the last tank (11.99L/100kms).

Could it be the tyres? Low rolling resistance, silica based rubber tyres.
Could it be the fact that the wheels were all going in different directions?

Toe in/out was all over the place:

FP = 2.4 mm
FD = -1.2 mm
Spec = -1.6 ~ +1.6

RP = +2.4
RD = +4.6
Spec = -0.5 ~ +2.6

Now adjusted to pretty much dead centre of the specs.

I know that this is very early days and I will really have to wait until a couple of tanks are under the belt to even out fill errors and usage variation, but I have never come close to this sort of economy before.

But this appears to be an improvement of the order of 10~15%!! If it is real, and continues, I will be one very happy chappy! :lol: .

Ratbag said:

Could it be the tyres? Low rolling resistance, silica based rubber tyres.
Could it be the fact that the wheels were all going in different directions?

I know that this is very early days and I will really have to wait until a couple of tanks are under the belt to even out fill errors and usage variation, but I have never come close to this sort of economy before.

But this appears to be an improvement of the order of 10~15%!! If it is real, and continues, I will be one very happy chappy! :lol: .

Click to expand...

Hi RB,
Yes the tyres can/will make a difference. I myself was thinking of loosing my steelies for some alloys and some light tyres too. I noticed when I went to my geoldaners my fuel economy got worse. I got about 100km less from a tank If I could loose 4-5kg a tyre (ive done the math) you times that by 4 which is 15-20kg. Thats ALOT of unsprung mass than can be shedded making a huge difference in power, torque and economy.. plus my 2.0l not being a very powerful engine to begin with makes the effect worse when compared to a H6 for example with 100kw more power..

So yes it will make a difference but possibly not 10-15% but 5-10% yes due to weight of the tyres, where the weight is(outer tyre or inner), etc..

Great to hear they handle well too, now you just gotta get em dirty

Taza

Gidday Taz

Ratbag said:

Could it be the tyres? Low rolling resistance, silica based rubber tyres.
Could it be the fact that the wheels were all going in different directions?

I know that this is very early days and I will really have to wait until a couple of tanks are under the belt to even out fill errors and usage variation, but I have never come close to this sort of economy before.

But this appears to be an improvement of the order of 10~15%!! If it is real, and continues, I will be one very happy chappy! :lol: .

Click to expand...

taza said:

Hi RB,
Yes the tyres can/will make a difference. I myself was thinking of loosing my steelies for some alloys and some light tyres too. I noticed when I went to my geoldaners my fuel economy got worse. I got about 100km less from a tank If I could loose 4-5kg a tyre (ive done the math) you times that by 4 which is 15-20kg. Thats ALOT of unsprung mass than can be shedded making a huge difference in power, torque and economy.. plus my 2.0l not being a very powerful engine to begin with makes the effect worse when compared to a H6 for example with 100kw more power..

So yes it will make a difference but possibly not 10-15% but 5-10% yes due to weight of the tyres, where the weight is(outer tyre or inner), etc..

Great to hear they handle well too, now you just gotta get em dirty

Taza

Click to expand...

Some figures for you mate.

I have weighed the steel 16x6.5 Subaru rims I bought for my trailer, and the bare alloy rim I bought to replace the steel spare that came with Roo2.

Steel rim (bare) = 11 Kgs
Alloy rim (bare) = 8 Kgs

Just a bit of a difference ... As you have said, this will impact on all sorts of things, including ride comfort, handling, torque transfer, wear and tear on drive shafts, diffs, etc.

Steel rims are FAR stronger for serious off-road use. In fact, if I had a Cruiser, I would insist on steel split rims for it ... However, I also think that regardless of how capable our Foresters are, they are NOT miniature trucks, and treating them as such will only end in tears; and HUGE repair bills .

However, I don't think the Michelin XM2s weigh any different from the Pirelli P7s that came off. If anything, the new tyres are possibly heavier, as much more tread.

I suspect that the difference in fuel economy I appear to be seeing (fervid imagination?) is more likely to be coming from the lower rolling resistance of the new tyres (they are "Green" ... ), and the fact that the car is not 'crabbing' down the road now.

If you really look at the toe in/out figures I posted, the fronts are pointing to the left, and outwards from each other; whereas the rears are also pointing to the left, and WAY outwards from each other.
This poor alignment really must have had a serious effect on the rolling resistance of the vehicle - even leaving the relative merits of the tyres completely out of the equation.

As regards off-road performance, I really do not think that the tyres have nearly as much impact on our vehicles as does the technology they are designed and built to.
With a Landcruiser-type vehicle, I would say the exact opposite ... At Bunyip, Nachaluva's AT-s were every bit as useless in the downhill mud as my P7s. Neither of us had any traction or steering at all from about halfway down each section!

When I see what you are quoting as loss of fuel economy, and what others are saying about the relative tyre life of the AT-s as against the XM1, I reckon I have made the right choice, for me.

Sounds like you've made a great choice with your tyres mate :ebiggrin:

Ratbag said:

I suspect that the difference in fuel economy I appear to be seeing (fervid imagination?) is more likely to be coming from the lower rolling resistance of the new tyres (they are "Green" ... ), and the fact that the car is not 'crabbing' down the road now.

Click to expand...

I think you have just nailed it with that comment :iconwink:

It will be interesting to see what the fuel economy is like in a few tanks time too.
Hopefully it will stay like it is now, which is a lot better

Regards
Mr Turbo

Gidday Mr T

mr turbo said:

Sounds like you've made a great choice with your tyres mate :ebiggrin:

Click to expand...

I hope so.
I always feel a bit iffy when buying new tyres. Specially after the very disappointing mileage we got from Michelin Certis tyres of about a decade ago on both the Camry and Roo1.

A new set of boots is a pretty large outlay of the green folding stuff IMO, and if one gets it badly wrong, it's an expensive mistake !

I think you have just nailed it with that comment :iconwink:

Click to expand...

Glad that someone else thinks this may have been negatively impacting on things. I have always felt that things were not quite right there ever since I got Roo2 before last Christmas.
It is like driving a different car ... :ebiggrin: .

It will be interesting to see what the fuel economy is like in a few tanks time too.
Hopefully it will stay like it is now, which is a lot better

Regards
Mr Turbo

Click to expand...

I was hesitant about "going to press" at this very early stage. It is hard to believe that the change to the low rolling resistance tyres and fixing the bad alignment can have this sort of gross impact.
I guess it goes to what I have said before about the Foresters being very well-balanced vehicles. A corollary of that is that if something is out of balance, it will noticeably change the way the vehicle behaves and handles ...

Anyway, time will tell. It could be just an oddity that doesn't hold up over the longer term.
My experience with this car is so short really, I find it hard to make any sort of general comments on anything about it. After driving Roo1 for so long, it was like an extension of self. I haven't settled in with Roo2 yet.

Update on partial fuel economy with new tyres:

https://offroadsubarus.com/showpost.php?p=40835&postcount=12

Roo2 has just ticked over the half full mark on the gauge.
I am not as sure about the "normal" odometer reading at this point - sort of in the middle and gets forgotten about ...

However, 205 kms with the pointer exactly central over the mark, which is better than it has done previously, IIRC (not always a given ... ).

I am still quite amazed at how much better the car is driving after the full alignment and new tyres.

It will be interesting to see if there is any real improvement in the fuel economy; but easily worth it for the driving pleasure alone! :biggrin:

Gidday all

Bloody IE Spell installation on this new (client's) laptop just deleted my post ... grrr So back to square one ... Nice laptop though - ASUS X53SD.

Roo2 has just ticked over the 3/4 full mark on the gauge.
As previously stated, I am not as sure about the "normal" odometer reading at this point - sort of in the middle and gets forgotten about ... I seem to recall it usually being a tad under 300 kms.

However, 317 kms with the pointer exactly central over the 3/4 empty mark (about 30 litres used) seems to be considerably better than it has done previously, IIRC (not always a given ... ).

I have also had the roof basket fitted for this entire tank. I have not been on any roads with a limit over 80 kms/h though, so I would expect the effect of the basket to be minimal (square law effect of drag on fuel economy).

It will be very interesting to see what the overall consumption is when I refuel.

Gidday Folks

Well I filled Roo2 up yesterday.

439 kms and 54.02 litres.
So 12.3 L/100 km.

While I filled to the first click (as usual, unless the pump is obviously malfunctioning), I did notice a tiny bit of fuel spat out the filler tube. So this may have been a slightly higher fill than the last one.

This is the reason to average over many tanks, as this averaging corrects for fill errors and driving differences.

Still exceptionally happy with the new tyres. Did a mild panic stop in the wet a few days ago when the road was clear both ways. The car stopped dead. Hard enough to jolt my shoulder badly, which still isn't recovered from the Noojee outing. Rotator cuff injuries in both shoulders according to the Doctor, but much worse in my left shoulder than in my right.

I also wanted to see how Roo2 behaved under heavy braking in the wet, as part of getting to know the characteristics of my (still) relatively new beastie.

I have also dragged the trailer to and from the trailer doctor on this tank - only about 5 kms each way though.

Roo2 had no difficulty at all either before or after (the trailer now weighs about 100 kgs more than it did before ... ).

The higher torque than Roo1 is terrific for towing. The trailer still appears to tow as straight as it always has.

Are those figures typical of a foz of that vintage? It seems incredibly high to me. I am averaging in the mid 7's. The average over the lifetime of the vehicle (8 months, and about 23000 km) is 8.2 as reported by the B trip meter which has never been reset. I do a lot of highway driving, a lot of peak-hour city driving, and a fair bit of rocky offroading.