What if you outgrow your Subie?

yup - and best thing is they're a basically a Triton underneath.

They're getting a bit long in the tooth now -- need to watch out for crappy plastic header tanks, rust (if they're from the North of Japan) etc. Manual's are also pretty scarce.

Was *this* close to buying one a few years back instead of the Suby.
 
A tad thirsty plus a small fuel tank probably only major disadvantages.
A guy in Darwin named "Lobo" used to raise and modify the earlier models. He may still be in business, I know not. Professor Google will know.
 
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[/IMG]Have you considered a current model Grand Vitara? Full time 4wd, with locking centre diff and proper low range. Similar size and weight to an SH Forester.

I own one currently and the traction control is unbelievably good. You can completely cross it up going uphill, and it'll just drive straight out of it.

Only things are that they do need some modifications to be any good. The rear suspension design is better than the Forester though, using a multilink setup with a separate shock (not a coilover design). A very similar vehicle to the pajero and the Forester, it's something of a cross between the two.
 
Grand Vitaras are great. My friend had one with a 2" lift and a snorkel which easily forded 1m of water.

Is the luggage and carrying capacity greater than the Forester?

How about the driving experience in general? Is it as fun as a subie on the twisty stuff?
 
One of the biggest advantage I believe a Subaru has offroad is their light weight, so I stick with that theme. All of my gear is basically hiking equipment so it's lightweight and compact. I try to keep a good weight distribution to keep as much load off the rear overhang as possible. Space is never an issue for me, but it's only ever myself and occasionally a partner.

My consideration recently has been if I need a work ute/van, and what would be suitable for a camper/offroader as well. I like the VW transporter with the 4Motion, and Siekel in Germany do a 2" lift for them. They do portal axles as well but I think they almost double the price of the vehicle.
 
Tweaksta said:
Grand Vitaras are great. My friend had one with a 2" lift and a snorkel which easily forded 1m of water.

Is the luggage and carrying capacity greater than the Forester?

How about the driving experience in general? Is it as fun as a subie on the twisty stuff?
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Yeah, I've had mine borderline floating before. Great wee truck offroad, the approach and departure angles are fantastic (I've shifted my rear number plate to the jdm offset position and had the towbar raised).

Luggage space is very similar to an SG Forester, as although the length of the boot is slightly shorter, it's a lot taller (which makes up for it). Overall carrying capacity is better, due to the rear suspension design (springs sit directly on the rear arms, unlike the SH Forester which uses a coilover design). You can also get airbags to eliminate saggy butt.

Driving is great. Mine's a 2.4 manual petrol, and it's pretty decent on windy roads, with the ironman suspension 2" lift, full replacement kit). Goes quite well, does like a drink if you load it up though! Handling isn't as good as an SG, probably similar to an SH. Steering is better than my SG, more direct (faster ratio), better feel. The diesel is an unreliable Renault unit which is apparently best avoided.

Other thing is that the GV is dead cheap to buy (at least here), has good aftermarket support, runs common tyre sizes (I use 225/75r16, dead easy to find muddies etc for, 205/85r16 is also seen here in NZ) and yet still has all the safety kit (6 airbags, stability control)...

Only thing might be the carrying capacity not being much more than a subie, and the fact they really need a lift and skidplates before you want to 4wd it (have a look at where the transfer case is and you'll see why).
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For me if money was no object a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (4drs) diesel automatic.
Possible to drive with softop and a roofrack for the rooftoptent.
Big adventage are the bigger wheels. Here in Holland a lot of mud with ruts who are sometimes too deep for my forester.
Big disadventage of that jeep is the price.. cost 100.000 euro (143.000 AUD) overhere. Comparison a new fozzy non turbo cost 38.000 euro (54.000 AUD). All this because of the stupid taxes we have here.
I think i'm forced to stay with my forester, and you know what, i don't mind :iconwink:
 
My son had a Wrangler (2 door) diesel auto, purchased new. It was a real offroad vehicle, it spent more time "offroad" being fixed than onroad! It broke down on the way home from the dealership and that was just a sign of things to come! People are crowd-funding to destroy them they are such a heap of junk. Worst of all, this was my son's first brand-new car and he even had trouble getting it ready for sale because it kept breaking down!
 
casperfromholland said:
For me if money was no object a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (4drs) diesel automatic.
Possible to drive with softop and a roofrack for the rooftoptent.
Big adventage are the bigger wheels. Here in Holland a lot of mud with ruts who are sometimes too deep for my forester.
Big disadventage of that jeep is the price.. cost 100.000 euro (143.000 AUD) overhere. Comparison a new fozzy non turbo cost 38.000 euro (54.000 AUD). All this because of the stupid taxes we have here.
I think i'm forced to stay with my forester, and you know what, i don't mind :iconwink:
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100k for a Wrangler is hilariously ridiculous. The base model is under 30k here, you can get the very ultra top of the line with rock crawling bumpers for under 50k out the door. And while the Rubicon is the best off-road vehicle with actual road ability, it is still the very worst on road vehicle sold in the USA per Consumer Reports. Add pathetic payload rating (like my Outback), mediocre towing capacity (marginally more than the OB), and it really is a US-specific "wheelers" delight: a vehicle to take on trails daily out of basecamp. It is not an overland vehicle like a Land Cruiser, it is a rock crawling vehicle.

On the plus side, in addition to unbeaten capability (Rubicon version), it is so common in the US that it can be modified, repaired, or taken care of on trail cheaply. Any shop, any mechanic in the most remote of places can help. But in Europe?

It is not funny that both Jeep and Land Rover seem to be bottom of the barrel as far as reliability goes. However, the Wrangler is not as bad as other Jeeps at all. That Kevin's son had so many issues is unfortunate but also less than typical for a Wrangler. The W is not a Toyota or a Subaru but it is not usually that bad. Of course, there are no diesel Wranglers here.

But of course, to me a non-turbo Foz is not worth anything anywhere close to 38k either. It is an average car except for the excellent AWD. 30-32k out the door gets you a nice premium FXT here, which is a whole different story and an unbeatable bargain at that price. You can go well past 35k if using every single option on the FXT (but the interior is still that of a 20k car so ugh). 38k gets you a top of the line H6 Outback though you might get north of 40 if using every conceivable option.

Conversely, actual European cars (not US-specific VW models) cost way too much here. Until recently, a VW was basically a luxury vehicle. For the same reason, all Passats one used to see were 6 cyl, leather, etc top of the line models until they started making them here.

I wonder if Australia gets the worst of all worlds: high prices on all brands.
 
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The more CO2 a new car produces the more sales tax is charged. Small cars with small turbo engines are nearly tax free. So are hybridcars. Big displacement or heavy cars the sales tax can easy be more then 100%. And we also have to pay an owner tax which is for my SF forester 85 euro per month. The heavier a car is the more owner tax you have to pay. A diesel wranger cost 160 euro per month, yust to own the damn thing

Owning and driving a car is sadley quite an expensive hobby overhere.
 
Wow ! Its very expensive, happy to live near the Alps.
 
Yep Vincent, and you live in one of the most beautifull countries in Europe with excellent offroad tracks around the corner!
 
I feel the same about Jeeps, there are too many real world examples of major let-downs in remote places. I'd be a fool to buy one.

I heard somewhere that Land Rover Discos and some Rangies ironed out their issues after 2010 but would need to investigate further.

Essentially they are all gas guzzling beasts which still require daily packing and unpacking when on a trip. Weight affects ability too. Most of the videos posted by jf1sf5 give perfect examples of larger (supposedly more capable) vehicles struggling with terrain that the Subie just skips over.

This really has me leaning towards being a lifelong Subaru owner...which brings me back to the original reason for the post which is just like a few others on here - how much longer can I rely upon the old SF GT to reliably get me across this vast country? I feel it's getting old. It's starting to look like crap which makes it hard to be a vehicle to be proud of.

I've seen 2010 diesel Foresters for as low as $13,000, but I've heard they are the worst diesels to own with heaps of issues. They'd make a decent platform for the usual lift, tyres and bull bar. Not sure how much more weight or cargo capacity they have over the SF though.

I will always own a turbo engine, I just love them. Don't mind whether it's petrol or diesel however it appears that Subaru are sticking with CVT for the XT so I'll never be able to have a modern 'off-road' XT. I will also always own a manual. Process of elimination only gives me the 6-speed MT Forester Diesel now. Being a diesel and manual I'm fairly certain they have LSDs all around which is perfect for what I am used to.

Possibly, with some well organised shelving and a rooftop tent this could be a nice, light, economical and capable off-roader.
 
Well, but if that model is not particularly reliable than what is the point?

Does that diesel model still come with low range?

Personally, I think that the most capable platform would be an SH 4EAT FXT. It starts with better clearance and angles than any other Subaru, comes with an uninspiring but bullet-proof transmission that will not offer any surprises, and does not need low range. On road, this is one fast vehicle. It is a bit faster in testing, it seems, than its successor. The only Q would be about finding a well-treated one since it is a turbo.

I would not buy a pre-2009 Subaru now for off-road purposes. I could have/should have purchased a 2007-8 SG turbo back in the day but I had no clue about offroad back then lol.
 
Yeah, and I also quite like the idea of using an S-Edition as a platform too which is also a turbo SH with an EAT....

The 2.5 turbos do tend to consume a fair bit more fuel than the 2.0s though. I can currently get over 500km to a tank (around 9L /100 km). I'd hate to take a step backwards hence the temptation of diesel. The 2010 diesel may be too unreliable, but the 2016 should be affordable in a year or two with 6-speed manual.
 
Crikey...the SH has over 100kg less payload capacity than the SF - 430kg vs 540kg. The SJ payload is only 403kg.

What this confirms is that the SF and SG chassis are more robust than newer ones. They have better dynamics and perform better off road as well. The case strengthens for keeping the old SF....
 
I have trouble believing that. No way the earlier Foz has 540kg. That is Tribeca's load capacity! Either regulations changed since or that is a mistake.

A quick Google check shows the newer models with a bit more capacity at least in the US.

But all car-based utility vehicles come with poor capacity. And so does the Wrangler.

The Toyota 4 Runner, on the other hand, has great payload ratings.
 
Keep the SF ! Every mechanic knows them so it can be repaired anywhere, easily.

For sure, don't buy an SH diesel for adventure.
 
With 350000 kms and running well I can`t see any reason to offload my 2002 SG MY03 forester, beat up it may be.
As SWMBO does not appreciate the finer virtues of pitching a tent and digging and squatting over a hole then I must continue to Subarise alone or with (male) friends. I did want a better 4WD camper with the dreaded shower/toilet but expense killed that plus, with my current state of health and fitness changing heavier wheels is a no goer. I can still, relatively easily rotate and change my 6, 16 inch, wheels, when needed.
I feel that with its advantages it is preferable to spend money on repairs to keep it going than to fork out a small fortune on a new, less satisfactory, vehicle. Having said that as the engine has never been removed a huge bill for a rebuild may not be all that far off.
 
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