a budget offroad gearbox build and BIG tyres.

casperfromholland

Forum Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2011
Messages
267
Location
Amsterdam Holland
Car Year
1999
Car Model
forester sf
Transmission
manual 5speed 4.44 end h/l 1.59
Hi guys, i would like to hear your opinion.

At first, my fozzy is my dailydriver and i like to go off-road with it Together with the so called real 4x4's. I like the way my foz drives on the tarmac but it needs some extra prep for the offroad work. I thought long to buy a cherokee or a terano but here in holland you pay roadtax according to the weight of the car. The heavier the car the more you pay and the difference is huge. So I decided to keep my foz and make it better offroad.

Current mods are 4cm lift rear, 2 cm front. Lifted kings, 205-75-15 tyres on VW rims.
Offroad in holland means, small hills, sand or mud with deep ruts. Making passing those ruts a bit easier i want to switch to 225-75-15 tyres or even 235 if it doesn't rub. I also want to change the gearing. My '99 foz has a gen 2 engine and tranny. As i understood a gen 1 box does fit on a gen 2, 2.0l engine. So i want to switch to a gen 1 tranny, a 4.44 final drive from a WRX together with the LSD rear diff. Also i want to switch the low gearing to 1.59 from a early 1.6 impreza. This gearbox will be professional build by a builder who makes normaly boxes for race and rally cars.

The big tyres does compensate the 4.44. In fact with 225 75 15 tyres the engine will make just as much rpm at 100km p/h as stock. And the 1.59 will make offroading a bit easier. A dccd is too expensive at the moment so i won't change that. A usa company offers wheel adapters from 5x 100 to 5x 139.5. Then i can use rims from a daihatsu or suzuki with a much bigger offset so no rubbing issues with the rear shocks.

What are you thoughts about this?
 
Lools like your on the right train of thought. 225/75r15 is the biggest you can go without getting out the grinder and cutting up your car.

4.44, 1.59 and a front lsd with some decent tyres will be verwill run a ej22 fine for your application in my opinion.

do you still have the 2.0l motor? If so bin that and just drop in an EJ22. Thats a cheap and easy upgrade. If your real keen throw in some Delta 1000 cams for the extra torque. Yes a stock 2.0l comouter will run an EJ22 fine, youll notice a huge increase in torque across the whole rev range.
 
That's interesting that this will be a "budget" gearbox build - front LSD, and the labour to be built by a pro who builds rally gearboxes. Sounds expensive! Good stuff if you can get it done cheap. I'd recommend putting your feelers out for a DCCD, they can be had for a few hundred dollars and do seem to pop up forsale more often now. Good opportunity to put it in while the gearbox is on the workbench, although it's still quite easy to install with the gearbox still in the car, just not AS easy.
 
Definitely 4.44, 1.59 low range and front LSD. Even with a 27" tyre, a turbo or a H6 that extra gearing will help.

I think RB has mentioned it, but the more wheel offset you have the more load you will be putting on the wheel bearings. Add to that the extra mass of the larger tyre, the extra mass of a 4WD rim, plus the extra load/force from the larger diameter tyre and I will feel sorry for your wheel bearings. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, it's just something to keep in mind.

But more simply, why so much offset? I would use the minimum offset necessary for your chosen tyres to clear the strut body/perch. You could always use a second set of tyres to swap between as well.
 
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Gidday Casper

I have to agree with V about the stress on your wheel bearings, stub axles and other suspension components.

As an example of what you might need, keep in mind that the stock 215/60 x 16 rims/tyres on an SG are bigger than the stock rims/tyres on my '68 Landcruiser. It weighed around two tonnes (tare). So width per unit weight is already pretty good.

With 15" rims, I would be inclined to get OEM alloys (if you haven't already got them), and fit a good 215/65 or 215/70 x 15. The weight reduction will help with what you are trying to achieve, while keeping your wheel bearings, etc safe.
 
4,44 and 1,59 does fit, Dedman did it, but it seems to be a tight fit and a lot of grinding

As you have a gen2, the EJ22 is less compatible than the EJ25 because of the electrical harness.

The EA82 gearbox from the wreckers has been sold…no more at the moment.
 
+1 for the 4.44 diffs, 1.59 LR. While you're splitting the box definitely put in a front LSD. A Torsen style LSD will be best for good manners onroad or a plated Cusco set to 60%.

Don't go too much offset. Apart from the extra load on the bearings, you will probably scrub at the front on full lock
 
Sorry no lsd in front, only a lsd in the rear which come together with the wrx box i bought.

What is cheap? I think that this gearbox build will cost me more then the value of a stock '99 forester with 400.000km.

I have been told that it is possible to switch to a dccd without taking the box out of my subi. Is that true? I hope so because i also want to replace the engine while my current engine uses 1 liter coolant a week. I replace it with a 2.0 again while a 2.5 is scarce in holland and you really don't want to know the price. In that case i could better buy a complete SG. With an other engine my savings are nearly gone so a dccd will have to wait.

My gearbox guru asures me that an early 1.6 impreza had the same short low gearing as a late leone and should fit right in a gen 1 forester box. I will ask him for the parts numbers. Those parts costs me around 300 euro new.

I hope that when this is all done that i will have a reliable fozzy again for several years, who will bring me safely to the sahara dessert in Marocco and back in oktober 2015, and perform a bit better in dutch offroad events.
 
Yes DCCD can be installed in the car without removing the gearbox.

Please share the part numbers for that imprezza low range!

If you have a pro building the gearbox then I'd suggest tapping in some oil feeds for the low range. That modification originated in the 80's for the rally Subarus when they raced in low range, and a few of this have this mod done now. I know on my gearbox some aluminium was welded to the casing to make it thicker for tapping the thread for the barb fittings.
 
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Yeah I have heard the early impreza with ej16 and 5spd dual range had same low ratio as L series, little known fact, but L series boxes still way more commonly available. Might be some variation of models of that impreza so maybe not all of them have that.
I remember the old BYB guys discoverd that one but kept it a secret so the supply didnt dry up. Easy way to get awd in your L series without sacrificing low or cracking the gearbox to swap low gears.
 
So you're saying you can get early Impreza 1.59 low range new? I would love to know more about this! :monkeydance:

IMO the most important diff to upgrade is the front. An open front diff is hopeless when trying to climb any kind of gradient if a wheel is lifted. When climbing a hill all the weight gets pushed to the rear so if a wheel is lifted its always the front. When you lift a front wheel with an open diff all the torque goes to that wheel resulting in massive wheel spin & you stop dead.

If you're going to the trouble & expense of opening the gearbox you would be crazy not to put in a front LSD :poke:
 
NachaLuva said:
So you're saying you can get early Impreza 1.59 low range new? I would love to know more about this! :monkeydance:
Click to expand...

New I don't know. I'd assume perhaps you could get the gear from Subaru. If that is the case you could probably get the L series one too, I'd imagine they're probably the exact same gear anyway. Nothing that special really, it's just that this is the only AWD EJ gearbox which already has that ratio of low range in it so it negates the need to modify your EJ gearbox by swapping an L series low range into it.
Really though, if you are that serious about getting L low range, then you are probably someone who'd also want a front LSD etc so rather than tracking down an Impreza with this low in it, may aswell just swap an L low into a more common gearbox anyways.
 
thnx for your answers!

Small other question thoes a rear LSD diff. from a '98 impreza wrx fits in a 99 fozzy when i also use the rear drive shafts?
 
Thats what I have. Mines a JDM STi version 2 diff, I think '95-'96.

All WRX R160 diffs will fit, just make sure you get matching axles as they vary a lot
 
the 1.59 low range being in early imprezas is something I've seen on here. ausubaru and dirtyimpreza, but never any hard evidence.

I remember the uk subaru 1.6ltr forester having 1.59 low but now when looking again i can't find it anymore :(
 
idw said:
the 1.59 low range being in early imprezas is something I've seen on here. ausubaru and dirtyimpreza, but never any hard evidence.

I remember the uk subaru 1.6ltr forester having 1.59 low but now when looking again i can't find it anymore :(
Click to expand...

I have never heard about a 1,6 liter Forester...
 
Man that must be gutless if true! The 2.0l is the worst motor combined with a large Wagon (I.e forester ( thar Subaru has ever produced. A 1.6 wouldn't even make it to 100kmhr..
 
Isnt the Impreza of that era only like 150kg lighter anyway? Forester with the same motor would theoretically drive like the Imp with two extra passengers?
 
Sorry it was in the subaru xv not the forester
 
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