NachaLuva
Product Developer
Absolutely. Anytime the struts are removed or any other suspension work, you need an alignment
Be careful RB, a different tyre means a different diameter & that will bugger the centre diff in a very short time...
2011 Forester X - cure rear sag AND raise?
- Thread starter technogeekery
- Start date
Absolutely. Anytime the struts are removed or any other suspension work, you need an alignment
Be careful RB, a different tyre means a different diameter & that will bugger the centre diff in a very short time...
technogeekery
Forum Member
Thanks guys, appreciated. Will let you know how it all goes.
Ratbag
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Gidday NL
Thanks for your concern, mate. I just checked. Both tyres have a rolling diameter of 645 mm ±1 mm, so should be fine.
All the best with your suspension changes, TG.
Thanks for your concern, mate. I just checked. Both tyres have a rolling diameter of 645 mm ±1 mm, so should be fine.
All the best with your suspension changes, TG.
technogeekery
Forum Member
Okay, just ordered Dobinsons Springs heavy duty replacements for the OEM springs all round, $176/pr = $352 + $30 delivery to me = $382
Question for the gallery - should I replace the rear struts as well? The Dobinson Springs are drop in, and will work with the OEM struts. And with only 40,000kms on the car, the struts should be okay normally. But I'm concerned that at least one of the rear struts may be damaged, as there is a "clonk" sound coming from the back going over sharp bumps, sounding a little like an old taxi. Measured my hub centre to wheel arch all round, and the rear left is nearly 20mm lower than the rear right. Reckon I might have damaged them offroading while overloaded. Wholesale Suspension have quoted me $145 each for rear replacements, and doing it later will cost me another $300 in labour and alignment costs, so I'm inclined to just replace them now as well. Does that sound sensible?
I'd love to put 1" lifts from Subtle or similar at the same time, but it is another $300+ delivered, say $450 installed, and this is getitng expensive, so will probably just go with the springs / struts, as it seems to have worked well for Ratbag who had very similar issues.
Cheers
Alex
Question for the gallery - should I replace the rear struts as well? The Dobinson Springs are drop in, and will work with the OEM struts. And with only 40,000kms on the car, the struts should be okay normally. But I'm concerned that at least one of the rear struts may be damaged, as there is a "clonk" sound coming from the back going over sharp bumps, sounding a little like an old taxi. Measured my hub centre to wheel arch all round, and the rear left is nearly 20mm lower than the rear right. Reckon I might have damaged them offroading while overloaded. Wholesale Suspension have quoted me $145 each for rear replacements, and doing it later will cost me another $300 in labour and alignment costs, so I'm inclined to just replace them now as well. Does that sound sensible?
I'd love to put 1" lifts from Subtle or similar at the same time, but it is another $300+ delivered, say $450 installed, and this is getitng expensive, so will probably just go with the springs / struts, as it seems to have worked well for Ratbag who had very similar issues.
Cheers
Alex
Ratbag
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Gidday Alex
A couple of mms difference is one thing; 20 mms + a "clonk" is another altogether.
At 40,000 Kms, your struts (shock absorbers) should be fine, but it does sound as though you have damaged one of them ...
.
Although more expensive, my instincts tell me to replace this sort of thing as a pair. Even the differences between manufacturing batches could give you problems. If not now, later.
Replacing one shock on something as crude as my old Landcruiser wouldn't cause me to turn a hair.
Having experienced just how sensitive our Subarus can be to slight misalignment (within spec) first hand, I am more than a little over-cautious about maintaining the balance.
You may also find that any problems are exacerbated with the fitting of heavy duty springs. Mine are variable rate (and a little heavier at full compression - about 17%), and came as a built kit, off the shelf - i.e. every part of the strut/spring assembly was replaced on both sides with parts that were identical to each other (springs, shocks, bumps, strut tops).
When the mechanic gets yours apart, it may be quite obvious if there is some damage. I suspect that if this is the case, he will probably advise you to replace both shocks, or whatever is damaged/broken. Keep the good one as a spare.
A couple of mms difference is one thing; 20 mms + a "clonk" is another altogether.
At 40,000 Kms, your struts (shock absorbers) should be fine, but it does sound as though you have damaged one of them ...
.Although more expensive, my instincts tell me to replace this sort of thing as a pair. Even the differences between manufacturing batches could give you problems. If not now, later.
Replacing one shock on something as crude as my old Landcruiser wouldn't cause me to turn a hair.
Having experienced just how sensitive our Subarus can be to slight misalignment (within spec) first hand, I am more than a little over-cautious about maintaining the balance.
You may also find that any problems are exacerbated with the fitting of heavy duty springs. Mine are variable rate (and a little heavier at full compression - about 17%), and came as a built kit, off the shelf - i.e. every part of the strut/spring assembly was replaced on both sides with parts that were identical to each other (springs, shocks, bumps, strut tops).
When the mechanic gets yours apart, it may be quite obvious if there is some damage. I suspect that if this is the case, he will probably advise you to replace both shocks, or whatever is damaged/broken. Keep the good one as a spare.
technogeekery
Forum Member
Yes, that makes sense, I'll do that - cheers
technogeekery
Forum Member
OKay - got Pedders to fit the Dobinson's springs and 2x rear KYB struts, and the car is transformed. Sits level, with 15mm lift all round, which is a bit of a bonus. Loaded up the car this weekend with 27 cases of cold drink and 700 sausages ++ (school fundraiser...) and the car handled it very well. Then added trailer with a light load to that, and still had about 20mm more at the rear than I did with previous load, and none of the horrible steering or suspension clunking that we had before. Car rides fine when unloaded as well - difficult to feel any difference apart from slightly higher ride - perhaps a bit more body roll than before, or perhaps I'm imagining it - either way, it feels absolutely fine unloaded, and miles better when heavily loaded. Job done.
And simply turning the Hayman Reese tow hitchupside down (unbolt and re-bolt the ball onto the other side) has given me 5cm more clearance at the hitch, which was scraping badly on departure - score! I think the hitch is not really designed for use this way, but the welds are staunch, and given the vertical shear stresses are pretty low (50kg or less towball weight, stress loading maybe 2-3x that) it should be fine.
So my little Subie is just a bit more offroad-worthy, which is the whole point of this forum - thanks guys
And simply turning the Hayman Reese tow hitchupside down (unbolt and re-bolt the ball onto the other side) has given me 5cm more clearance at the hitch, which was scraping badly on departure - score! I think the hitch is not really designed for use this way, but the welds are staunch, and given the vertical shear stresses are pretty low (50kg or less towball weight, stress loading maybe 2-3x that) it should be fine.
So my little Subie is just a bit more offroad-worthy, which is the whole point of this forum - thanks guys
Ratbag
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Sounds like a terrific outcome all round, TG :biggrin:.
As for your tow bar tongue ... If it now looks something like this:
it was probably upside down to begin with ...
:lol: :rotfl:.
As for your tow bar tongue ... If it now looks something like this:
it was probably upside down to begin with ...
:lol: :rotfl:.
NachaLuva
Product Developer
Glad you're happy with your suspension :biggrin:
It does sound like the towbar tongue was on upside down lol :iconwink:
It does sound like the towbar tongue was on upside down lol :iconwink:
Ratbag
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Gidday TG
Always remember that the amount of lift is the amount by which your car body height exceeds the OEM spec.
For example: Roo2 was sitting at around 400 mm rear wheel arch to wheel centre unloaded, without a spare. OEM spec for a N/A MY06 is 440 mm +12/-24 mms. So it was well out of spec range.
With the new rear suspension units, it is now sitting at 425 mms (unloaded, with spare). This is within OEM spec range, but well under the 440 + 12 = 452 mms maximum for OEM spec, by some 27 mm.
Thus I can add a 1" (25.4 mm) lift blocks at the rear, and still be within OEM spec. This effectively means that I would have no lift at all with the 1" lift blocks fitted! Seems crazy, but there is no other way of determining this measurement. It is dependent on the model specifications, not on what a specific car measures up at.
Fitting 215/65 16" tyres will cause the car body to rise about another 10 mms, so only slightly over the OEM spec height range, and well under the 50 mms maximum lift specified by the ADRs and my insurer.
[EDIT]
Just removed all the heavy crap I normally cart around in the car (except the cargo barrier - took out the second battery, 10L Jerry can, bag of tools), and found that the rear height is actually 430 mms, not 425 mms as previously stated. My car has an OEM tow bar fitted, and these weigh a lot. I would expect that removing this would possibly raise the rear around another 5-10 mms.
[end edit]
OKay - got Pedders to fit the Dobinson's springs and 2x rear KYB struts, and the car is transformed. Sits level, with 15mm lift all round, which is a bit of a bonus. ...
Job done.
...
So my little Subie is just a bit more offroad-worthy, which is the whole point of this forum - thanks guys
Always remember that the amount of lift is the amount by which your car body height exceeds the OEM spec.
For example: Roo2 was sitting at around 400 mm rear wheel arch to wheel centre unloaded, without a spare. OEM spec for a N/A MY06 is 440 mm +12/-24 mms. So it was well out of spec range.
With the new rear suspension units, it is now sitting at 425 mms (unloaded, with spare). This is within OEM spec range, but well under the 440 + 12 = 452 mms maximum for OEM spec, by some 27 mm.
Thus I can add a 1" (25.4 mm) lift blocks at the rear, and still be within OEM spec. This effectively means that I would have no lift at all with the 1" lift blocks fitted! Seems crazy, but there is no other way of determining this measurement. It is dependent on the model specifications, not on what a specific car measures up at.
Fitting 215/65 16" tyres will cause the car body to rise about another 10 mms, so only slightly over the OEM spec height range, and well under the 50 mms maximum lift specified by the ADRs and my insurer.
[EDIT]
Just removed all the heavy crap I normally cart around in the car (except the cargo barrier - took out the second battery, 10L Jerry can, bag of tools), and found that the rear height is actually 430 mms, not 425 mms as previously stated. My car has an OEM tow bar fitted, and these weigh a lot. I would expect that removing this would possibly raise the rear around another 5-10 mms.
[end edit]
Last edited:
technogeekery
Forum Member
:lol: I don't think so... it was fitted like the pic below, as advertised by Hayman Reese. I have inverted it. Looking at the way it is designed and welded, I'm pretty sure it was designed to be fitted the way it was - but should be fine inverted.
Ratbag
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^ I reckon that this would put the ball way too low (as shown in the photo), even towing a single axle trailer. Towing a tandem axle trailer, it would be sure to chop out the front wheel bearings on the trailer, but the front axle would probably break before that happened .
A basic rule of thumb with any trailer (but particularly tandems) is that they should be level when attached to the tow hitch, and so should the car.
They should not form a V shape like mine did before having my rear suspension replaced. i.e. not like this:
But more like this:
BTW, if my trailer had tandem axles, even the second shot is not level enough. In that case, the trailer hitch and ball should be around the same height when not connected to each other, and with the trailer just sitting on its four wheels with no jockey wheel.
That relationship needs to be preserved when both vehicle and trailer are loaded, so the ball height may need to be adjustable, as many are. That's the arrangement I had on my '68 LC and tandem axle horse float.
.A basic rule of thumb with any trailer (but particularly tandems) is that they should be level when attached to the tow hitch, and so should the car.
They should not form a V shape like mine did before having my rear suspension replaced. i.e. not like this:
But more like this:
BTW, if my trailer had tandem axles, even the second shot is not level enough. In that case, the trailer hitch and ball should be around the same height when not connected to each other, and with the trailer just sitting on its four wheels with no jockey wheel.
That relationship needs to be preserved when both vehicle and trailer are loaded, so the ball height may need to be adjustable, as many are. That's the arrangement I had on my '68 LC and tandem axle horse float.
technogeekery
Forum Member
Okay - to close this thread off - my feedback now that this has been installed for a while.
The heavier springs have had an unintended consequence - raising the ride height by about 30mm all round - so that was a positive. I am running with the OEM struts, although I did replace both the rear ones, which were damaged.
With the car fully loaded, or with a heavy trailer attached, the problem is completely resolved - the car/combo rides level, there is no (or little) rear sag, and the off-road handling much better. The empty ride comfort has suffered some. We quickly got used to the extra ride height, but the ride itself is more harsh - jarring a little on speed humps, and hitting a pothole mid-corner can unsettle the suspension briefly. It is not a real issue - but it is definitely a lot less less "plush". Interestingly, my wife (who rides it every day) hasn't noticed any change - so its really not that bad - but if you are sensitive to how the car is riding, you really feel it.
So - we've solved the problem, at the expense of some sacrifice in unladen comfort. Am I happy with it? Yes, in that the car is absolutely fine every day, and does what I need in terms of off-road and heavy load capability. But its not a GREAT solution. I think given the very limited options we have for these cars, short of going for full custom suspension, this is probably the compromise I had to settle for. But I'm not really happy with it overall, and we will save our sheckels for a Pajero, which I think is what we really want. And for the next year or two, we'll happily live with this compromise.
Cheers
The heavier springs have had an unintended consequence - raising the ride height by about 30mm all round - so that was a positive. I am running with the OEM struts, although I did replace both the rear ones, which were damaged.
With the car fully loaded, or with a heavy trailer attached, the problem is completely resolved - the car/combo rides level, there is no (or little) rear sag, and the off-road handling much better. The empty ride comfort has suffered some. We quickly got used to the extra ride height, but the ride itself is more harsh - jarring a little on speed humps, and hitting a pothole mid-corner can unsettle the suspension briefly. It is not a real issue - but it is definitely a lot less less "plush". Interestingly, my wife (who rides it every day) hasn't noticed any change - so its really not that bad - but if you are sensitive to how the car is riding, you really feel it.
So - we've solved the problem, at the expense of some sacrifice in unladen comfort. Am I happy with it? Yes, in that the car is absolutely fine every day, and does what I need in terms of off-road and heavy load capability. But its not a GREAT solution. I think given the very limited options we have for these cars, short of going for full custom suspension, this is probably the compromise I had to settle for. But I'm not really happy with it overall, and we will save our sheckels for a Pajero, which I think is what we really want. And for the next year or two, we'll happily live with this compromise.
Cheers
Kevin
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Good follow-up, thanks. I agree that the ride can be a bit harsh when unladen with this kind of setup; I have dampener adjustable konis but it is still an issue.
Several folks in our local Subie club have gone with Challengers, or Triton Wagons as I like to call them (as a bit of a stir) and they all seem very happy with them
Several folks in our local Subie club have gone with Challengers, or Triton Wagons as I like to call them (as a bit of a stir) and they all seem very happy with them
mikesforester
Forum Member
Hi Kevin, While not wanting to hijack this thread, can you elaborate on the "Challengers, or Triton Wagons" Still exploring all my options. Thanks Mike
Kevin
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Not sure what the Challenger is called elsewhere
https://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/vehicles/challenger
L200 in other parts of the world
https://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/vehicles/triton
https://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/vehicles/challenger
L200 in other parts of the world
https://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/vehicles/triton
mikesforester
Forum Member
Ok, thanks, thought it was a suspension component LOL.
taza
Forum Member
I'd highly recommend them also.
My brother was looking for a new vehicle (had to be 4wd) and consideres the forester. However it was too small to carry all the surf boards and not offroad capable enough in standard form.
He opted for a 2014 challenger 2.5 turbo diesel with 5 speed and full time 4wd (awd).
Having had a 1998 model challenger (the original) that had over 430, 000km on it, we knew they were a solid vehicle.
The only down fall is the body roll through general corners. We over came this by upgrading the swaybars front and rear to whiteline units.