2011 Forester X - cure rear sag AND raise?

technogeekery

Forum Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
24
Location
Sydney
Car Year
2011
Car Model
Forester
Transmission
M
Hi all - have trawled the forums (esp this one) and don't see a solution for my specific issue, so would like to ask for advice / comments.

I have a Subaru Forester X 2011 which I use extensively off-road for camping. It is often overloaded with 4 people and camping gear, and the rear suspension sags and bottoms out. I’d like to replace current springs/struts with heavy duty King Springs/KYB struts, as well as get as much increase in ground clearance as possible. Have talked to the King Springs distributor here in Sydney, and they don’t make a longer heavy duty spring set for the 2011 Forester like they did for the previous models, only a heavy duty standard length model. So I could just replace the rear struts/springs, or even just heavy duty springs with OEM struts to cure the load issue, but that doesn’t help with ride height.

I see that there are a couple of overseas outfits (Sumo, Primitive) who make strut-top lift kits, which might work well with standard length heavy duty springs. Sumo kit looks good, but reading through the reviews here, I'm seeing very mixed feedback from users who bought the kit. First up there were long delays in getting the kits ready (and I see that Sumo have been promising the SH version of this kit since January) and then when they arrived, there were some quality (chipped powedercoating, mis-aligned tabs) and fit issues. I haven't seen any reviews of the Primitive kit, which is a similar strut top block, but polycarbon instead of steel, and a smaller lift. Both also require a further spacer kit for the trailing arm. The few reviews I've read also seemed to indicate that the geometry of the Sumo kit anyway wasn't great, and the reviewer needed to do additional work on getting the alignment right (camber bolts, modifications to bars, etc).

Both kits are quite expensive, which I'm okay with for vital equipment, but I'm hesitant to pay for essentially prototype (the Sumo gear is not even developed yet) equipment from an overseas vendor when there is no real recourse if they dont fit or achieve the desired result.

I've called around several suspension suppliers and shops, and nobody seems to have a ready-made solution, so I thought I'd turn it over to the forum experts. If I can't get more ride height safely and without a lot of issues / cost, I'll give up on the idea and simply get the heavier duty springs for the rear OEM shocks. But I'd happily pay $1k or so to get what I want (2" lift or so as well as capability so safely / comfortably carry more load in the back / run a trailer.)

Looking forward to your thoughts / suggestions.

Thanks!

 
Gidday TG

I sympathise, mate.

Do some sums.

Weight of car ~= 1,500 kgs
4x people ~= 4x 70 = 280 kgs
Luggage ~= 400 kgs
Weight of roof bars and pod ~= 40 kgs

Tow ball weight of your trailer ~=45 kgs

Weight of car - TOTAL: ~= 2,265 kgs

Now, check the GVM on your compliance plate ...

As to solutions.

Rear:

Perhaps a heavier duty, variable rate spring with appropriate strut at the rear. Add a 1" strut lift block to give your car more clearance if you want/need this.

Front:

Be advised by someone who knows something about suspension, and preferably Subaru suspension.

I would be thinking about staying with your existing OEM suspension (if it's not rooted ... Doing the back end in can throw a lot of extra strain on the front as well! I'm hoping that mine scrubs up OK ... ).
Add a 1" strut lift for clearance and to maintain your car's balance.

Doesn't sound to me as if you need a racing car, any more than I do :iconwink:.

Tannin went for heavy duty springs all round, and came to grief badly. He finally solved his problems (much the same as ours) here:

https://offroadsubarus.com/showpost.php?p=69208&postcount=88

And the result? With the standard springs front, Kings springs rear, new standard shockers all round, and 1 inch lift blocks all round? Effin' brilliant! Smooth as a baby's bum to drive, just like a new one, soaks up bumps like a Citroen, handles very nearly as well as it did when it was new and closer to the ground - more than well enough for long, long days eating up the miles. And off-road, haven't done much but every early sign of being really good.
Click to expand...

Tannin's car is an MY05 Forester, but his solution eventually worked out well for him, apparently.

The logic of what he has (finally) done, seems right to me, regardless of the specific solution for any given model of Forester.

Hope this rambling monologue is of some help :poke:.
 
Given your needs, esp loading it up so much, I'd say you def need HD rear springs.

Surprised Kings dont do raised for the SH, try Dobinsons Springs , they might. They dont list Subaru on their website but a few members on here have their springs...you will need to call them.

Kings can also do custom springs, prob a little more expensive though.

You could try raised HD springs (if you can get them) with 1" Subtle Solutions blocks. Lots of people have that combination on SF & SG Forries & are happy. Not knowing the SH rear suspension, you may need aftermarket camber bolts to get the correct camber in the rear, the front should have enough adjustment.

Onother option is to keep your OEM suspension, upgrade the rear springs to HD to cope with heavy loads, & add 2" strut top blocks. These will have camber compensation built in.

Both ways, if you go 2" of lift or more, I'd suggest getting rear trailing arm blocks to keep the rear geometry right. See here:
Trailing Arm Blocks

RB, Tannins situation was different as he upgraded the springs but used OEM struts, which arent valved as hard. Although others have done this too & not encountered the same issues as he did :shrug: For whatever reason, his situation seems unique
 
NachaLuva said:
RB, Tannins situation was different as he upgraded the springs but used OEM struts, which arent valved as hard. Although others have done this too & not encountered the same issues as he did :shrug: For whatever reason, his situation seems unique
Click to expand...

Not unique. But I was merely using his misfortune and unfortunate combination of suspension components to illustrate the problems that one can encounter if one follows the wrong advice.

i.e. to stress the importance of getting advice from someone who actually knows what they are talking about ...
It's why I went to Lucas, rather than Ross. Ross' strengths are in maintenance and repair of stock standard cars. Lucas' are in modified vehicles in particular. Interestingly, Lucas knows Ross well, and speaks highly of him ... I am sure that Ross would say the same about Lucas ... :iconwink: :).
 
I'm so glad I did what I did to mine - 30mm raised King heavy duty springs, KYB struts & alignment. All off the shelf, rides & handles better and copes better with loads. My mechanic said the bump stops were in good condition & didn't need replacing. Time will tell. I'm over cautious with things like that so I'm interested if there will be long term negatives. It was so easy with a SG Forester - all the parts are there & been tried by many before it seems. I would imagine it would handle even better if standard height heavy duty springs were used. I didn't need the extra height but it will be a bonus at times.
 
OK, thanks for that. Yes, Ratbag, I know I'm on the limits for loading the car - can improve situation with the trailer, carefully loaded, but am approaching limits of the Subie, even with upgraded suspension.

Pat from Wholesale Suspension researched this with King, and came back with the confirmation that while they do make a heavier duty standard length spring replacement for the SH series, they do not make a longer one, as KYB do not make a longer aftermarket strut, and the OEM strut does not have any headroom for a longer spring - ie tops out very quickly.

Their heavier duty spring will add a little ride height (approx 10mm front and 15mm rear), and is about 15-20% stronger in spring rate than the OEM springs. My impression is that will make only a marginal difference to either of my issues - the increased ride height is small and I suspect only temporary, and I don't think a 15-20% stronger spring will really account for the heavier load.

They could make me up a standard length spring with a heavier spring rate for $295 each, 3-4 weeks lead time, at my request. Standard $175.

They won't make me a longer spring, as they don't believe it will work with OEM or aftermarket KYB struts.

Which makes me wonder about the Dobinsons solution. Good call, nacha Lover, they do indeed make a longer (33mm longer) HD spring, which they say is a drop in replacement for the OEM spring, no need to replace OEM strut. But given King say they encountered topping out issues with the OEM strut, I'm not convinced, and don't feel like being a guinea pig.

So possibly the conservative solution here is to go for a couple of custom HD King Springs in the rear to sort the loaded sag issue, keep the front OEM (it is fine, even loaded), and put a conservative strut lift block (Subtle Solutions 1" looks good) all round to get a bit more clearance, and call it good.
 
Guzzla - yes, I'm also conservative, and would love a tried & tested solution like yours, but it doesn't exist for the SH.
 
machine1 - yes, that was a custom job by Primitive in Oregon. I've corresponding with Paul Eklund now, who tells me they have a 2" lift kit which includes spacers, shock extensions, brakeline brackets and subframe spacers - and I'd have to buy KYB shocks here. With shipping here, fitting, alignment and a bit of a fudge factor for inevitable bodges, I think that solution looks like $2k all up. Looks neat, but more than I want to pay for a solution I'm not 100% convinced will work, and an overseas vendor.
 
OKay, so Dobinsons recommend just fitting a pair of their extra length HD springs at the back, which will achieve about 30mm lift and enable superior load carrying ability (couldn't give me exact spring rate, but "much better than stock". $176/pr, so this sounds like a very reasonable solution 9or at least, improvement).

My only real concern is the imbalance between front & back, in that when the car is not loaded (normal) it will be stiffer at the back and slightly nose down. I suppose I could try it and see (the cost is very reasonable) and if the attitude is a problem, I could fit Subtle Solutions 1" nose drop kit (simply the front half of their 1" kit). If the attitude is no problem and I want more lift overall, install the 1" lift kit later.

Does anyone see any issues with this? I don't know much about car suspension, but from my motorcycle racing days, I know all suspension work is about compromise...
 
By all accounts, Dobinsons are stiffer than Kings, which would be ideal for you. It will be firmer unloaded, but you cant get something for nothing, everything is a compromise. PM Taza, he has Dobinsons. He also had a bad spring batch & Dobinsons proved to have excellent customer service, really came to the party to help him out :biggrin:

I have an extra 1" block in the rear to help with heavy loads & give it a mean nose down stance. You will find many manufacturers do that now, its called forward rake & really improves the cars "stance" :lildevil:

I think OEM front & Dobinsons + KYB rear plus 1" blocks all round will give you a combination of good handling, good load carrying capacity & better clearance AND not break the bank. You could try it without the rear trailing arm blocks & add them later if needed. If you want the TA blocks, PM me :iconwink:
 
I run Dobinson springs in my Forester. Have done for 2.5years now.
I'd never look back.
I have them all round with KYB shocks (due to others being worn out). However I did run them qith the standard shocks/struts for about a year with no issues.
I have about 20mm sag when loaded to the hilt. Ive almost doubled my GMV while towing a fprester on a heavy steel car trailer and yet the vehicle sat level (I have slightly higher lift blocks in the back than the front).
I did however snap 2 front Dobinson could springs on seperate occasions. Once was out of warranty however Dobinson came to the party instantly and within less than a week replaced the springs, shock and damaged tyre from the occurance..
The ride unladden is firm but not harsh


Highly recommend :b
 
NachaLuva said:
You could try it without the rear trailing arm blocks & add them later if needed. If you want the TA blocks, PM me :iconwink:
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that the SH has different suspension to previous models and I'm not so sure that trailing arm blocks are applicable to SH - multi-link or double wishbone - can someone confirm? I think it's similar to Outback suspension now.
 
Taza - thanks for the endorsement - that makes me much more confident to go with this solution.

Kevin - the Primitive 2" lift kit for this model includes a rear subframe spacer kit, which looks similar to what Nacha describes as trailing arm blocks - I think it IS necessary to have something to re-centre the wheel in the arch if lifting to that extent. But I think it is probably unecessary for a 1" lift, esp with OEM wheels/tyres.
 
They are multi link but do still have a trailing arm. The front is the same across the whole subaru range (minus brz).
Similar setup that is on gen 3 + 4 Outbacks.
 
Good point Kevin.

What about the camber? Not sure if camber bolts are applicable with multi link suspension
 
To that point - would it be normal / advisable to have alignment done after adding 4 new springs?
 
^ yes ...

From my Batphone

[EDIT] To add to that, I will be having the alignment checked after the new rear springs and struts go in tomorrow.

However, because I have one tyre that's different on the car ATM (at the rear ... ), I won't have the alignment done until the tyres are all the same again, probably early next week.

This will also give the new rears a little time to 'bed in', as it were.

[end edit]
 
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