Haven't seen this issue here...

nipper

nipper

Forum Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
482
Location
Oceanside, New York, USA
Here in the states, we have a problem with the rear suspension on 20005-2009 subaru outbacks. It is called "ghost walking" the back of the car wants to steer the front of the car.

I hit it really bad today in a way I could diagnose it better. It is terrifying in a stong gusty crosswind (thunderstorm on a pass or high bridge). Today I was doing 60 mph on a highway and one layer of blacktop was stripped off in patches due to winter conditions. The tail of the car wiggled. I am running out of options to fix this.

New rear struts and end links. Toe is slightly out due to rusted bolts but nothing alarming.

My OB is sure footed has good off road manners as long as it is low speed. High speed it can be white knuckle. Do you guys in Aus have this too? It's been suggested the springs arent stiff enough for the car.
 
Is this the same as "tram-tracking"? I experienced this recently until I got new tyres along with a wheel alignment.
 
Gidday Nipper

Not sure what you are talking about, other than instability; lack of directional stability.

It concerns me that your toe in/out is "slightly out".

When I got Roo2, it had Pirelli P7 tyres. At the recommended pressure +2 (i.e. 32 psi), it handled like a canal barge at times.

I replaced the tyres with Michelin XM2 tyres and had a four wheel alignment done. Each tyre was aligned within spec, but they were all slightly out in different directions.

After the alignment (and chassis check), the car's handling changed amazingly for the better at all speeds, under all conditions. I also run the tyres at around 34 to 35 psi.

Zero directional instability now ... :biggrin: :cool:
 
Do you mean the rear toe is slightly out? Subaru recommend ~1mm of rear toe in each side to help keep the rear stable. I'd be looking at getting the toe in within limits then see how you go
 
Hey mate. On highway roads before I replace the springs and shocks I had to wrestle with mine to make it go straight. The rear suspension was pretty worn though. The rear bounced allot and combined.with a cross wind it wasn't great. But since I've done the springs I havnt had an issue, drives brilliant on.highways.
 
Gidday Nipper

It seems our Subies are exquisitely sensitive to wheel alignment errors, IME with Roo2.

If you cannot adjust the toe in/out properly, perhaps this issue should be addressed before you go any further? Or repair the rusted bolts along with such other repairs as are necessary?
 
Sadly those bolts are frozen and sort of beyond my tools available to repare them at this time. It isnt off by much but something I may have to do something about in the future.
 
Any rear toe out will make your car extremely tail happy. I agree with RB, adress this issue before changing anything else.
 
Gidday again Nipper

nipper said:
Sadly those bolts are frozen and sort of beyond my tools available to repare them at this time. It isnt off by much but something I may have to do something about in the future.
Click to expand...

My toe in/out, caster and camber were all within spec, but pointing in different directions. Made Roo2 handle like a canal barge.

I like your term, ST - "tail happy" :lol:.
Bit like an overly friendly and not very bright Labrador ... :rotfl:.
 
By that time the Outback was using multi-link rear suspension, as opposed to struts, right?

Just about every multi-link rear car I have driven (including SH Foresters) is more nervous at the rear at speed on uneven ground (like the patchy bitumin you describe) than the strut rear cars I've owned (SG Forester and Daihatsu Charade). I've found the multi-link 'rear-steering' effect very disconcerting over the same undulations that strut rear cars seem to be impervious too. Do most 'average-Joe' drivers not notice such things, or do owners just get used to it?
 
nipper said:
Sadly those bolts are frozen and sort of beyond my tools available to repare them at this time. It isnt off by much but something I may have to do something about in the future.
Click to expand...

Search for a product from Kanolabs called "Kroil"...it's somewhat pricey but NOTHING on earth works better on rusted, frozen threads...HTH
 
I really like the directional stability of my all strut Forester but at the last service (250,000km ) they tell me both self-leveling rear struts and one front one are now leaking. I suppose after that distance I should be grateful they've lasted that long (4 times longer than the '82 Laser I once had). I hadn't worried too much about them because I hadn't noticed much wrong with them. So now I've been talked into replacing springs all around with King springs (not the heavy duty though) and KYB struts. They quoted me $1500 fitted and aligned. Have I chosen the right combination and is that price reasonable? I know it should gain about 30mm extra clearance and they claim both ride and handling will be better. The mechanic has the same set up on his 04 Forester XS and assures me I'll be happy with the set up. He's a real Subaru and Forester fan. It's the Advanced Service Centre here in Toowoomba that is owned by the ex workshop manager of the Wippells VW/Subaru workshop and they seem to have gained a top reputation locally, also specializing in Audi and Mazda that Wippells also sell. I've also just taken my new Golf there rather than continue at Wippells itself - not that I have any complaints about them - they have always been good to deal with in my long experience with them.

btw The 250,000km service with oil/filter change, gearbox and diff oils, coolant change, brake fluid flush, upper engine cleaner and new cam belt kit including tensioner and pulleys cost $1372. The spark plugs and air filter were done at the service before.
 
Guzzla, you've done very well to get 250,000 out of your struts, although Roo1 was at 234,000 with no sign of any strut problems; or any change in the suspension/handling since new, really. $1,500 seems a bit steep, but with new springs as well, I guess it's not so bad. Being a member of SOFA, sticker shock always catches me unawares.

Our Camry had to have new front struts at around 160,000 kms, because they were absolutely :censored:.

The really major service charge seems reasonable considering all the work that was done. Did the water pump need changing?

Wondering if you saw this:

https://www.autoguide.com/car-comparisons/2013-subaru-brz-vs-2013-vw-golf-gti-3645.html
 
IMO $1500 is a little high. Parts will be under $1000 now for 4 KYB struts + King springs, alignment ~$70-90, so they're charging ~$400 for installation. For a shop, it should only take ~2hrs if they're experienced with Subies as you suggest. I guess the trade off is that they do a good job 1st time.

The raised springs are HD & will firm up the ride, giving better handling onroad. Although they reduce wheel travel offroad, I dont mind as the compromise is more than worth it. Im sure you'll be happy with them.

The 250K km service sounds about par for course as they were very thorough
 
Ratbag said:
Did the water pump need changing?
Click to expand...
No, they said it was still in good condition.
re struts Our Camry had its struts replaced at 150,000km and then again at 300,000km and both times they were noisy and sloppy. The Forester's are neither. They have only started leaking between the 238,000km service and the 250,000km service.
I'm hoping the ride isn't too firm with the new springs and struts. Thurs 20th will reveal all. Whatever, the Forester will be staying with me for quite a few years so I will just have to live with the result. My mechanic who has the same set up on his Forester assures me I won't be disappointed. Time will tell.
 
Well, it's been done and I'm generally happy with the result. the raised king springs were $76.50 each, the KYB struts were $177 each, wheel alignment $80.55, labour $360 and GST $145.46 for a total of $1600.

The Forester now sits about 1" higher, is much firmer, has an unbelievably tight stance and grip on the road with less body roll (or so it seems although I thought roll bars would have to be changed for that?) and the suspension is so quiet. It feels like it could run down any old lumpy track with ease and I can't even imagine it ever being able to bottom out. The steering feels tighter and more responsive but a bit heavier.

I don't really like the look of visible yellow springs (is that an off-road / 4WD thing that the manufacturers / suppliers seem to think the market wants?) but I'll live with it
 
Well right now I have to work on the front end as I ma getting smoked out of the car. I need to replace the rack, and at 180K the inner and outer tie rod, end links and some rubber bits. After that I will attack the rear toe bolts.

After thinking about it and wondering why some do and some dont have a happy tail, it is a rather odd design of the multi link at fault. If the toe is the slightest bit off as the suspension moves it causes the geometry to change enough for happy tail. Later I will order scorpion springs.
 
Guzzla, after doing basically what you have, then 4 new tyres all round and a wheel alignment, Scooby2 is such a pleasure to drive. Just feels safe, even towing the long distances we do, AND... last trip with 5 people as well, the new suspension really was worth the $s. Happy and safe travels!

Best regards,
 
As someone who used to autocross and was a track junkie, I can tell you that toe out in the rear will definitely make the car unstable at speed - great for turn-in and very quick transitions, but very, very bad for straight line stability. Slight toe in for the rear is best for road cars (although we used to run neutral, that is '0' toe in the rear on our MINI and BMW track cars).
 
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