Aftermarket sump guard required for sand driving?

blak

Forum Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
8
Location
NSW, Australia
Am planning to some sand driving soon to access surfing spots in Newcastle, NSW.

I have removed the factory fitted plastic sump guard from my Foz. Do you guys recomend I fit an after market sump guard to the vehicle?

Thanks in advance for any replies.
 
G'day Blak :welcome:

blak said:
Am planning to some sand driving soon to access surfing spots in Newcastle, NSW.

I have removed the factory fitted plastic sump guard from my Foz. Do you guys recomend I fit an after market sump guard to the vehicle?
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Oh yeah!

Choices are SubaXtreme Sump Guard, fits well & looks good, is airbag compliant & fine for light duty stuff like sand.

Or Crossbred Sump Guard, steel so stronger, better if you foresee rocky tracks in your future

PS: it helps if you put your city in your profile so we can know where you're coming from. You can also put your model Subie in your signature :iconwink:
 
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Choices are SubaXtreme Sump Guard, fits well & looks good, is airbag compliant & fine for light duty stuff like sand.
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Yep I saw these. Quite expensive though for what they are. I wanted to check if I really need one with you guys.

Crossbred Sump Guard, steel so stronger, better if you foresee rocky tracks in your future
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I saw these too, and they are much cheaper, but dont seem to be ADR compliant.

PS: it helps if you put your city in your profile so we can know where you're coming from. You can also put your model Subie in your signature :iconwink:
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Done and done. :-)
 
blak said:
I saw these too, and they are much cheaper, but dont seem to be ADR compliant.
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It depends how you want to take it. I would always err on the side of caution with insurance companies however...they would have to prove that it adversely affected your vehicles performance in an accident, eg, deployment of airbags. Being only thin 2mm sheetmetal, IMO it wont affect the sensors which work on deceleration figures. Theres much thicker steel to bend before it gets to the sumpguard.

However, its your car & you have to be happy with it not being airbag compliant. Remember, all that means is its been tested & passed, thats all...doesnt mean any of the other sumpguards wouldnt also pass :iconwink:

I have the Crossbred one but beefed up with 5mm plate under the sump :lol:
 
G'day blak & :welcome: to ORS.

There's some good info there re sump guards.
I have the SubaXtreme one on my Forry & it's saved me on many an occasion :cool:
Would I like something a bit stronger, yes, but I'd prefer to stay ADR compliant :iconwink:

Regards
Mr Turbo
 
Agreed, Mr T.

It is not just the strength of the material itself that affects its air bag and pre-tensioner seatbelt compliance, it's also how fast the guard deforms and how fast it breaks away from its mounting points during a collision.

It has to have practically zero effect on these two items in order for the seat belt pre-tensioners and air bags to work as designed. As Ross says, These times are measured in microseconds" ...

It's partly OK for NL, his car does not have air bags. But it's nowhere near as safe (secondary safety - after you've hit something ... ) as the Limited version (or the later SF models or any of the SG and later Foresters because of this lack.

NL's SF does have the pre-tensioner seatbelts, and they are affected by the fitting of a non-complying sump guard.
 
Ratbag said:
It is not just the strength of the material itself that affects its air bag and pre-tensioner seatbelt compliance, it's also how fast the guard deforms and how fast it breaks away from its mounting points during a collision.

It has to have practically zero effect on these two items in order for the seat belt pre-tensioners and air bags to work as designed. As Ross says, These times are measured in microseconds" ...
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That sounds good in theory but how bout airbag compliant STEEL bullbars? These have a massive effect on the way the front crumples. Talking about microseconds is true, but an oversimplification...

NL's SF does have the pre-tensioner seatbelts, and they are affected by the fitting of a non-complying sump guard.
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I dont think it does. It has seatbelt tensioners using a centrifugal locking system, but not pre-tensioners which use sensors to detonate a small explosion to pull in the belts. My model has no sensors apart from the engine sensors...
 
Pre-tention seat belt sure do work well I must say.

I was in an accident about ten years ago (not my fault & driving a Celica) when they were activated.
When they say they pull you back into the seat, they mean it, trust me.

Regards
Mr Turbo
 
I've the crossbred sump guard, bought it and he did a deal on the rear diff guard as well for less than a subaru extreme sump guard.

Only downside was i had to do a fair bit of grinding to make it fit around the headers and file out the bolt holes so they lined up. Diff guard bolted up no problems, great products quality control might need a look at.
 
idw said:
I've the crossbred sump guard, bought it and he did a deal on the rear diff guard as well for less than a subaru extreme sump guard.

Only downside was i had to do a fair bit of grinding to make it fit around the headers and file out the bolt holes so they lined up. Diff guard bolted up no problems, great products quality control might need a look at.
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+1...the quality really lets them down. Their body lift kit had a list of faults! :shake:
 
My xbred needed a bit of filing to fit too, they bend up into the sump and headers after some abuse and need to be taken off and jumped on.
 
After some heavy duty reinfocing, my sump guard doesnt bend anymore...but the jacking plate did after I landed heavily lol
 
idw said:
great products quality control might need a look at.
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It is such a shame they cant get it right, especially considering the prices they are charging for what is essentially a piece of bent sheet metal.

Ive seen threads on other forums about similar modifications needed to get the Subaextreme guards to fit properly too. :confused:
 
Well its not just bent steal, pretty much is besides the zinc plating.

Subaru extreme are better for quality control, adr etc. Some non fitting reports could be related to post repair cars with side or front prangs. Only need to have to bolt holes move 1.5 mm centre to centre not to align.

Something is better than nothing under there, while sand won't cause much harm be unlucky enough to find a rock you could damage something. Some scrap sheet metal and afew bends will get you there if its in your shed. Don't need to keep it long term if you don't won't.


What the Subaru extreme guard does offer is some better protection to keep sticks and junk out of the inner front cv boots, which is nice.

But in the end its not always what's strongest. I was out with hydrowil and some other subbies. A block dropped his sg onto a rock with a thick alloy guard, the sump wasn't damaged but his engine had cracked a bearing or bent the crank.You could hear the knock and watch the pulleys wobble. Can't remember what exactly broke

Everything has it's trade offs at the end of the day
 
It just seems to me that if expensive bought ones don't fit you may as well make one yourself and save some money.
I used 3mm alloy from a scrap metal place and for $60 I got enough alloy to cover the bulk of my cars underside. There are designs on this forum.
If your just doing sand driving you could use less than 3mm. My 3mm handles a beating (Stilson can back me up here)
 
I have a Crossbreed bash plate on my 2004 and there is no way I would take that down a difficult track where you are likely to land on it. On my 2002 I have a 6 mm alloy bash plate made by David Wilson from the Subaru 4wd Club. I have complete confidence that this will protect my sump. Two weeks ago I did a club run through the Toolangi State Forest and numerous river crossings going to Mt Sterling. Several times I landed very heavily on the bash plate and was not concerned by this.
 
NachaLuva said:
I dont think it does. It has seatbelt tensioners using a centrifugal locking system, but not pre-tensioners which use sensors to detonate a small explosion to pull in the belts. My model has no sensors apart from the engine sensors...
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According to the original SF brochure I have, the standard model didn't have the air bags, but did have the pre-tensioner seatbelts. The Forester Limited came standard with both two front air bags and front pre-tensioner seatbelts.

A pre-tensioner seatbelt works by dragging the occupant back into the seat back, then locking the belt in that position - usually by fireworks, but I can think of other methods.

Other differences between the two models were:

Limited had:

ABS brakes
SL rear suspension
Air-con (standard, not optional)
An extra storage pocket

And a generally 'fancier' interior equipment level.

Just what the brochure lists. I doubt that even Subaru can tell you what the actual differences were ... :iconwink:
 
The SF (mine atleast) has inertial reel pre tentioners, uses a ball/cog system thing to lock when the cab is exerted to a certain amount of g force. No locking explosive or anything.

There are a few different types of pre tentioning systems. The one in the SF is the tried and true simplest form of them, you know that annoying one that stops you putting your belt on if you grab it too fast or locks you in your seat if the decent is steep enough.
 
Gidday Id

The pre-tensioners in modern cars (ours, anyway) work by weighing the passenger, then reeling in any slack in the belt before locking. The force with which the belt is reeled in is dependent upon the weight (mass ... ) of the person, and the pre-programmed constraints. The force applied will be far greater if the person weighs 120 Kgs than if they only weigh 60 Kgs.

The SG models all have this weighing system built into the front passenger seat. It doesn't really need to know the mass of the driver, as the driver can be presumed to be of sufficient stature (and therefore, mass) to drive the car in the first place.

I don't know how the SF pre-tensioners work. My '93 Impreza had the sort of locking system you are describing. It was called "locking inertia reel seat belts", or some such, AFAIK. Definitely not called "pre-tensioner seat belts".
 
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