A new towing vehicle for Bobam

Bobam

Forum Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2013
Messages
36
Location
Hervey Bay, Queensland
After spending tooooo long in trucks [including Mack quad box and 5 x 4 x 2 stick Spicer box's] I know how to change gears, [giving my age away now].
We have manual and auto 98-01 foresters and am ambivalent about either in any conditions. [although do occasionally find myself changing down to third in the auto, much to complaints dept glee] Find auto better in sand.
I Tow a 1300 kg van with the 01 auto but it is a bit slow so looking to upgrade.
Had decided on a 06-07 forester auto but went sideways a little when I saw the torque numbers on the xt and a H6 Outback.
Can anyone that has towed said weight van advise me on their experiences with either, or guide me to the thread that deals with this question.
Still learning the site etiquette so be gentle kids.
 
Gidday Bob

Bobam said:
I Tow a 1300 kg van with the 01 auto but it is a bit slow so looking to upgrade.
Had decided on a 06-07 forester auto but went sideways a little when I saw the torque numbers on the xt and a H6 Outback.
Can anyone that has towed said weight van advise me on their experiences with either, or guide me to the thread that deals with this question.
Still learning the site etiquette so be gentle kids.
Click to expand...

Is your '01 AT behind a 2.0L or 2.5L engine, mate?

The 2.0L N/A Forester had about the same torque/power to weight ratios as my old '93 Impreza. Well the maximum torque was considerably higher, but the SF Forester weighed a lot more than my Impreza. The torque curve of the 2.0L engine is also pretty peaky. Not ski jump territory, but not flattish either.

If it is a 2.0L, the series II SG MT Forester (MY06 to MY07) with the 2.5L engine has heaps more torque, and a far flatter torque curve (than even the series I SG), thanks to the variable valve lift technology and tumbler valves on the inlet manifold. Probably quite a few other tweaks as well.

The series II N/A 2.5L SG engine gets more than 90% of its maximum torque figure from about 1800 rpm to its red line at 6300 rpm. Extremely tractable IME. The torque of this engine more than compensates for the 1.196:1 low range in the dual range box when compared with the 1.447:1 and lower in earlier models.

I have a pretty heavily built 7x4 box trailer with lid and stuff. It doesn't weigh anything like 1300 kgs, but I don't even notice it behind my MY06 5MT/DR. Basically, it has no effect at all on the performance!

And yeah, the H6 has a stack more torque again. The turbo engines have a much higher maximum torque, but the torque curve is nowhere near as flat. Ditto for the turbo diesel engines.

I also hold a heavy vehicle driver's licence, even though it's many years since I have driven any. So I understand the importance of not only the maximum torque figure, but also the shape of it. Nobody towing anything wants a torque curve the shape of the original racing Mini Cooper S!!

BTW, it helps others to help you if you put your general location in your user profile ... :iconwink: :cool:.

Hope some of this drivel helps a bit :).
 
You should how flat the torque curve is in my WRX. According to the derived torque figure, over 300Nm at the wheels (not the engine) from 3400 to 6400 RPM.
 
I tow a 1200+kg boat behind my H6 outback. Full of camping gear. Mind you it is handy having low range to help you get up and moving from a steep set of traffic lights. Apart from that it has enough power to tow it fine. Never towed anything when I had the auto in it so can't really comment, I could imagine it would be easier though.
 
Thanks for welcomes elsewhere.
I agree Ratbag re 06 torque curve hence earlier decision but still tempted by an xt.
I think I'm safe as long as I don't go for a test drive in an xt.
My 03 X had a 40mm Subaextreme lift kit in it and as long as we didn't load it up it [no more than 4 people and lunch] it was fine on the sandy island although September could be interesting with all the tourists in rentatroopy's and the very dry conditions prevalent at that time of the year.
As subaextreme don't do lift kits anymore can someone reccomend a 50mm lift kit for an 06 X [maybe an XS if the price is reasonable]
Heard gossip that the self levelling suspension precludes the use of WDH when towing, fairy tale or true story?
regards
 
^ Hey Bob, I agree ...

It's like cameras and lenses! Never use a lens that you are not in a position to buy ... I used an ultra wide angle lens that two of my friends owned, and it ruined me for the somewhat lesser variations in the same ball park. The lens I "couldn't do without" (i.e. not prepared to accept the compromises of its lesser cousins ... ) ended up shortening my bank account by well over $1,500, second hand ...

Perhaps avoid driving the H6 and XT? :iconwink: :ebiggrin: :lol:

According to some very experienced members here like Mr Turbo with experience with both, the N/A 2.5L has got somewhat better torque right down low, before the turbo boost starts to cut in. I can see how this is the case. Also no "turbo lag". Also have LR, which even at "only" 1.196:1 is surprisingly useful ...

My OM also mentions that the rear diff in the XT is " ... relatively prone to overheating ... " under towing conditions at high speeds or driving uphill (p.8-15 of the MY06 OM). Perhaps another reason to avoid the turbo model for this kind of work? It also mentions that this can happen with the AT under these conditions using the same phrase " ... relatively prone to overheating ... ".

I have the XS model with SLS. Seems to work OK. My Owner's Manual doesn't discriminate between the standard and SLS suspension as regards the towing section. [EDIT] However, it does mention the SLS and towing at p.7-38, where it illustrates how this works to level the car when a trailer is attached. [end edit]

The towing section also mentions a "hitch stabilizer" at p.8-14 of the OM. I don't know if this is what we call a "load distribution hitch" here in Oz, or not?

This seems to narrow things down to either an H6 Outback or N/A MY06 5MT/DR Forester.

I opted for the Forester option ... :poke: :biggrin:

Just a few thoughts. Hope this helps you a bit.
 
Last edited:
Gidday All

I figured that these posts have developed into what should be a new thread, so moved them here.
 
Thanks Ratbag and Mr T re lower and flatter torque band, most logical.
Firming up to 06 X AT with trans cooler [Boss firm on a AT].
The 01 AT got very slightly warm towing 1300kg van up 12%, down to 1800 rpm with no change, had visions of doing a jack knife reverse to go back down but the little soldier kept going [neally a zen moment].
Mightely impressed. Realised later I still had the AC on. also realised I should have dropped down at 3500rpm and kept in the torque range, so probably did have a little change but the Foz saved me from making a goose of myself.
I'm a gauge watcher so keep an firm eye on temp gauges and will make required mods to make sure there is no overheating issues
Saw someone recommending 3 core radiator for a Foz with a H6 in it, happy to do the same if it ever became an issue but would rather be very diligent about coolant, radiator, trans cooler etc.
Again thanks and regards.
 
Further to above,
Ratbag I'm pretty sure that as you say their 'Hitch Stabiliser' is our WDH/LDH.
Perhaps one of the U.S. cousins could advise!
When towing I'm happy at 85/90kmh on quieter country roads and try to stay around 90/95kmh on single lane highways to keep other traffic happier.
Always looking for chances to let traffic past, although ignorance of following drivers can still surprise me and I should be old enough not to be surprised any more.
Hope to tow van to S.A. after xmas [going to catch whiting etc]. Expect to cross Hay Plains at night if hot Northerly's/westerlies blowing during day.
Hope to get up into the Northern Flinders as well although may leave van somewhere and camp for a few days as it will get too rough up in some of those old mining sites hence the lift kit.
regards
 
Haha about the final purchase approval ... :iconwink:.

My original plan was to sell our Camry and replace it with an AT Forester (MY07), then later on replace my '93 Impreza.

When I came to my senses, I realised that if my SWMBO didn't like the auto Forester, I was stuck with an auto box that I didn't want!

Back to the drawing board.
Saw an excellent MY06 5MT/DR Forester that fitted my needs/wants, traded in Roo1 and joined up here about two weeks later.

SWMBO approved of the new car, so then I went on the hunt for a newer, auto Fox for her. My search documented in this thread here:

https://www.offroadsubarus.com/showthread.php?t=3745

Then I finally found what I was looking for, and pounced. Thread here:

https://www.offroadsubarus.com/showthread.php?t=3779

She's as happy as a lark; and I didn't end up with an auto I didn't want ... :iconwink: :ebiggrin: :biggrin:

All good ...

Good luck in your hunt, mate :).

IME, the really good ones only last about 24 hours, so it pays to know exactly what you want; have the readies to hand; and be ready to pounce when the right vehicle shows up on the radar.
 
Since I'm on my phone I won't make this long. ..
Buy an XT! You won't regret it.
I have a 2001 SF that I recently put a 2.5l non turbo engine in from an outback.
It goes well, tows alright but if I were to tow heavy things often and on a ling distance I'd go an auto XT. Plenty of power. One would happily sit on 140kmhr with a tonne behind with an XT, even my 2.5l foz will tow 700kg and sit on 140kmhr quite comfortably. .
 
G'day again Bob

Bobam said:
Further to above,
Ratbag I'm pretty sure that as you say their 'Hitch Stabiliser' is our WDH/LDH.
Perhaps one of the U.S. cousins could advise!
Click to expand...

I would tend to agree, if other info not forthcoming.

When towing I'm happy at 85/90kmh on quieter country roads and try to stay around 90/95kmh on single lane highways to keep other traffic happier.
Click to expand...

Other than when towing a tandem horse float behind my '68 LC, I tend to pass most other cars, whether towing or not .... :lildevil:. Even when towing my (very) fully loaded trailer behind my (gutless) '93 Impreza (EJ-18, first edition ... ).

Always looking for chances to let traffic past, although ignorance of following drivers can still surprise me and I should be old enough not to be surprised any more.
Hope to tow van to S.A. after xmas [going to catch whiting etc]. Expect to cross Hay Plains at night if hot Northerly's/westerlies blowing during day.
Hope to get up into the Northern Flinders as well although may leave van somewhere and camp for a few days as it will get too rough up in some of those old mining sites hence the lift kit.
regards
Click to expand...

Sounds like a very nice trip you have planned there :) :ebiggrin:.

I think that you will extremely pleasantly surprised by just how easily an MY06 N/A handles that, even in full summer heat.

The AT cooler sounds like a very good idea to me. Money well spent.

Have you thought about converting the van into a camper trailer? What sort of van/trailer do you have?
 
Morning Ratbag et al,
The van is a 20 yr old 12' back door ROMA.
After looking at 20 or 30 of the little back doors [all over the country] most of which were b----y awkward uncomfortable things to get in or silly overpriced, we found the ROMA 5 mins away [as you do]. I got into it and realised 'yep' this is the one! Only had it 9 mths but happy with it.
It is a 5' pop top so we can make a quick lunch without the top up and I can slip in and out of the back seat of the dinnette without contortions. Most excellent so far.
Probably going down to Brisbane next week to look at vehicles.
Any body have info on the lift kits? actually the question should be, is the standard height of the 06 Foz the same as the 03 or a bit better. I know the 2008 onwards are now 220mm, the same as a standard Hi lux.
regards
 
Taza
Be gone thine shameless tempter.
I know if I take an xt for a spin I will be lost so I shall resist temptation and only look at x's.
I have 2 concerns re xt, One is heat when towing on long hot days. The other is fuel economy when it is our daily [and it won't be me, the boss won't be able to help herself].
I towed a 600kg trailer back from Darwin when my 03 AT was 2 weeks old in November [40-45c] at 130kmh with AC on full. That was when I realised I had discovered the vehicle for the rest of my life [another zen moment].
After owning hundreds of cars [some impulse buying expensive disasters and a lot of $50 bombs from the wreckers] I started to become a bit discerning after our last born son [the previous owner of my foz].
What firmed up the choice was discussing with a friend [an ambulance officer] why he had bought a foz [00 limited from memory]. He is a quiet studied sort of a fellow not prone to quick decisions.
He just said, 'of all the car smashes I go to I have never dragged a dead person from a Foz, and now we all know that if we get on scene and one of the cars is a Foz there's a very good chance one cars injury's will be minor or less'.
Not much you can say after that!
It would be very interesting to see how many ambo's own foz's/Subby's.
In Queensland the ambo's first [rapid] response vehicles are all Foz's.
regards.
 
Gidday Bob

I have just finished a careful reading of the OM for my MY06 Forester about the ATs available.

It appears that the MY06-MY07 came with one of two different ATs:

1) "Standard" AT (without MANUAL mode). This version has a POWER and HOLD button on the gear lever that allows the driver to select the change point programming and how the AT holds and/or changes gear.

2) The "Sport Shift" AT (with MANUAL mode). This version also has the power and hold switch, but also has a different looking shift gate.
Off to the side of the D position, there is a sideways position to select MANUAL mode. In MANUAL mode, the gears can be changed manually either up (push the lever forwards), or down (pull the lever backwards). This AT can up and down shift within the range set and displayed in the instrument nacelle (e.g. when set to "2", the AT will use 1st and 2nd; when set to "3", it will use 1st, 2nd and 3rd; when set to "4", it will use all four gears automatically. It can be changed up or down my flicking the lever forwards or backwards respectively.

The second type is designed to be driven in fully manual mode if desired, but it is my understanding that the first type is not, but can be, sort of - and at the risk of damaging the AT if over-used.

Since you are looking for an Auto, it is very important that you know this, if you didn't already ... :poke: :iconwink:.

SWMBO's SH has the Sports Shift type AT. It works well.
She leaves it in "D" all the time ... :biggrin: :lol:.
 
Bugger lost my nice long sensible response by pressing wrong button, will try again.
Thank you for doing the manual studying Ratbag. It helps to have this info prior to laying down the biccies.
Very useful info from Taza re acceleration, economy etc from running little wheels. Food for thought especially as top speed isn't a requirement. As we know gearing is everything and reducing wheel dia is the same as lowering final drive ratio.
Would expect greater longevity from all mechanicals as well.
Wonder if my 98 MT 15" with 205/70x15 will bolt straight on.
Re 'looks' well I was never accused of being a member of the fashionista.
Wonder how it would look with spats. Where do find the laughing till you throw up face, err where do find any of the faces?
regards
 
I assume both AT's remap themselves if driving circumstances change.
I generally just let the tranny sort it out with the occasional downshift [with hold selected] for engine breaking, which the 01 AT does surprisingly well, although obviously it needs rpm to become effective.
I very rarely touch 5000rpm in any circumstances and it generally operates between 2500-4500rpm.
I assume the second AT would be more robust for my circumstances????????
regards.
 
Roxsie II had the "standard AT". Below "D" there were "3"/"2"/"1" positions for restricting the upper gear ratio. Same as your description for the "sport shift", but without the up/down selection method: just move the lever into the right position (involved some left/right selections to make it hard to drop it too far down accidentally: the lever path wasn't straight).

Ratbag: does the spec sheet for the MY06/07 show the gear ratios? I expect them to be the same across the two gearboxes, but that's just an assumption. In the latest Forries the 'L' model upwards have up/down shift paddles on the steering wheel, but the gearbox itself seems to be the same as the non-L model.
 
G'day again Bob

Bobam said:
Bugger lost my nice long sensible response by pressing wrong button, will try again.
Click to expand...

Isn't that a PITA! I use Opera browser for most things, and it has a little plugin that saves the text one types into text boxes ... :iconwink: :biggrin:.

Thank you for doing the manual studying Ratbag. It helps to have this info prior to laying down the biccies.
Click to expand...

No worries, mate. My pleasure.

Very useful info from Taza re acceleration, economy etc from running little wheels. Food for thought especially as top speed isn't a requirement. As we know gearing is everything and reducing wheel dia is the same as lowering final drive ratio.
Would expect greater longevity from all mechanicals as well.
Wonder if my 98 MT 15" with 205/70x15 will bolt straight on.
Re 'looks' well I was never accused of being a member of the fashionista.
Wonder how it would look with spats. Where do find the laughing till you throw up face, err where do find any of the faces?
regards
Click to expand...

The smilies are in the advanced editing mode. Generally I just type the HTML shorthand - e.g. : puke : etc (without the spaces between the colons and the text), the web page substitutes the icon.

And yeah, there is a lot of stuff one needs to know in order to make informed decisions, and finding it out is sometimes very arduous ... :(.

Bobam said:
I assume both AT's remap themselves if driving circumstances change.
I generally just let the tranny sort it out with the occasional downshift [with hold selected] for engine breaking, which the 01 AT does surprisingly well, although obviously it needs rpm to become effective.
I very rarely touch 5000rpm in any circumstances and it generally operates between 2500-4500rpm.
I assume the second AT would be more robust for my circumstances????????
regards.
Click to expand...

I would think so. BUT, I am not any kind of expert on the merits or otherwise of these two different trannies. Someone here will know ... :iconwink:.

OEM 15" wheels will not fit on the SG models. Have to go to a particular Audi alloy rim and then fit a hub spacer and get special wheel nuts. Personally, I just couldn't be bothered. There comes a time in life, where one buys what one needs, and services it regularly. I reached that point quite some time ago ... .
Search for "Audi" here, and you should find it. If you can't, I will dredge it up for you.

We have the OEM alloys on both ours. I can assure you that the 215/60 16" are more comfortable than the 225/55 17" on SWMBO's SH.

If you look diligently and very regularly, you occasionally turn up a very good deal. Both of ours came with a couple of grand's worth of extras that the dealers didn't realise were on them. Our insurer insured both cars for about $5,000 more (agreed sum) than we paid for each of them, without even a token fight ... They both cost us about what we would have paid for a similar mileage/age bottom of the range model, but were both XS models "with the lot" ... :ebiggrin: :biggrin:.

Good hunting! :)
 
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