Self leveling for HID lights.

[stilson]

It's illegal to install HID lights (retrofitting not just globes) without self leveling devices to avoid blinding oncoming traffic when towing or loaded.

I wonder if the self levelling rear suspension found on some models counts as an adequate leveling device.

 

[Ratbag]

I very much doubt it, ST.

Personally, I loathe and detest these lights, and find them blindingly bright. I have special pink tinted night driving glasses to remove the entire blue end of the spectrum because of them ...

Even with the mandatory "self-levelling" device, these lights are unbearably bright when the other car is approaching up a hill, or even a slight incline, and the lights can be seen over the crest.

About 10% of the entire human population can see very well into the UV end of the spectrum, and this makes our eyes especially sensitive to the blue end of the spectrum in general.

Bloody things ought to be banned, IMNSHO.

Same goes for fog lights that can be turned on when the headlights are on. Particularly those with clear lenses and tiny reflectors. The latter are merely a dangerous 'fashion accessory', again IMNSHO.

Lights are for illuminating the road (etc); they should not be there as a fashion statement ...

I do not have any kind of problem with separately switched high powered driving lights, just so long as they are used sensibly and responsibly.

 

[Davidov]

I hate them for low beam aswell, they are very bright especially because most people don't have them set up correctly.
In my outback i have seperate High and low beam globes, so for high beam i have a powerful HID kit for the highway, offroad etc and low beam i stuck with some decent halogens.

HID's for low beam are just too bright IMO, because as you said if they are coming up a hill or something they get you straight in the eyes.

As for the leveling with HID's, I think the self leveling rear suspension is all that is needed. Along with proper projector style lenses etc.

 

[thunder039]

Personally, I loathe and detest these lights, .

i agree they make my eyes very soar indeed especially a late at night when eyes are already tired

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday Thunder

i agree they make my eyes very soar indeed especially a late at night when eyes are already tired

If you are one of those who have to wear relatively dark sunglasses to avoid headaches after fairly short exposure to bright sunlight, chances are that you are one of the 10% of people who see well into the UV part of the spectrum.

I find that the pink night driving glasses help enormously in removing the glare and the downright pain that blue and HID lights cause (the lenses look pink because they are removing the blue light from the source ... ).
I can see just as well at night while wearing my lighter pair of sunglasses (about 75% cutout), but I can just imagine trying to explain that to some over-officious copper! My newer sunglasses have an 85% cutout, and are too dark for me to see with at night. All my glasses cut out 100% of the UVA and UVB parts of the spectrum.

BTW, it has been discovered relatively recently that a major cause of cataracts and some forms of retinal deterioration in older people (my age and beyond) is lifelong exposure to the high levels of UV light characteristic of our country. This can be almost totally prevented by wearing a hat, and good (optometrical) sunglasses from an early age (like 20 ... ).
In my own case, I had to start wearing sunglasses from the age of about 5 y.o. onwards because of my extreme sensitivity to bright light. My last eye examination showed no sign of either cataract formation or any kind of retinal deterioration. SWMBO is showing the first signs of cataracts ...

 

[stilson]

I think poor old HID lights are getting a raw deal here.

Selfish if not foolish people fit them PNP into halogen headlights (both projector and reflector.)

Some go as far as retrofitting HID lights (usually projectors) but they are for the LHD market and blind on comming cars.

Some miss aim them.

For some reason people seem to think that a higher colour temperature gives more or better light. That's why there are idiots out there with horrible glaring blue headlights.

8000K is the most popular temp HID PNP kit sold however there is a dramatic reduction in light output after 4300K and the light is as RB says very hard on the eyes.

HIDs unless they are bi-xenons should not be used as high beams alone as they don't light up quickly to be safe.

A well installed Retrofit of right hand drive HID projectors with 3000 - 4300K globes that is correctly aimed should have a crisp cutoff line and provide no glare to oncoming traffic at all.

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday ST

Not only all that, but exposure to light with a daylight colour temperature (4500°K and up) within about 4 hours of 0200H causes the pineal gland to not secrete melatonin that night.

Melatonin is a powerfully anti-carcinogenic hormone.

The level of exposure required to prevent the secretion of melatonin is around 0.5 Lux (around the level of the full moon through net curtains with closed eyelids ... ).

Regular exposure to HID/daylight colour temperature lights is very strongly linked to particularly breast and bowel cancer in the first world, and somewhat less strongly correlated with prostate and ovarian cancer.

There has been a great deal of (peer reviewed) research done on this since a receptor for colour temperature was discovered in the retina in the late 1990s. This includes retrospective re-analysis of long term data about these diseases.

Some basic info here.

Needless to say, I have far more research and discussion papers available than this, but pursuing them here would be more than a little OT ... :lol:

 

[Shiv]

A well installed Retrofit of right hand drive HID projectors with 3000 - 4300K globes that is correctly aimed should have a crisp cutoff line and provide no glare to oncoming traffic at all.

This is exactly what I've done with my Outback and the distribution of light is excellent. There is a well defined cone of light with a clear cutoff point.

My globes are 4300K and that is the temperature when the number of lumens (light output) is at its max. The colour is perfect. Crisp white light. I opted for the lower output 35w globes as opposed to the higher 55w which everyone purchase off eBay and they are plenty bright.

I too think HID's get a bad wrap. But I'm young and have good eyes. Personally, I find oval fog lights with reflector lens's far worse. Particularly what you get in the VY era of Commodore's (SS, HSV etc). But at the end of the day, there is always going to be some idiot who bungs high powered globes without aiming them correctly into housings that were never designed to take on that level of light output. Its just one of those things that need to be managed....

 

[stilson]

Some very interesting reading there RB, thanks for the link.

Shiv, I'd love to see some pics of your install and some specs of the gear you used.
Living in NSW am I right in believing you will have to have yearly inspections? Did you install washers and leveling devices?

I hope my install is clean enough not to attract any negative attention.

 

[thunder039]

if they are done properly then i dont have an issue only when people who are to inconsiderate and do not align then correctly. most cars these days with stock are angled well to not have the issues discussed.

 

[thunder039]

what about thoes altra white and blue globes from supercheap etc do they have the same effect

 

[stilson]

Even with the mandatory "self-levelling" device, these lights are unbearably bright when the other car is approaching up a hill, or even a slight incline, and the lights can be seen over the crest.

This and when oncoming cars are angled to turn right.

I wear my sunglasses at night, I wear my sunglasses at night....

Do you take melatonin supplement?

 

[stilson]

what about thoes altra white and blue globes from supercheap etc do they have the same effect

Same effect? Yes, they make me think people are cocks too.

These bulbs are filtering out the good usable light, thus decreasing the lumens meaning the globes have to be overdriven in the first place to produce within the legal limit and have significantly reduced life as such.

The only performance halogen I would consider is an untinted "plus 50".


I have a headlight out as of yesterday so I might buy a pair of Narva plus 50 H1s when I wake up.

 

[thunder039]

h1s dont the sg use h4?

 

[Shiv]

Shiv, I'd love to see some pics of your install and some specs of the gear you used.
Living in NSW am I right in believing you will have to have yearly inspections? Did you install washers and leveling devices?

I hope my install is clean enough not to attract any negative attention.

I bought the gear off eBay. Basically its a generic projector lens kit. Its not RHD or LHD. You just install it how you want too. I personally did not do the install as I don't trust myself opening up the headlights. I had my mate do it as he's a professional auto-electrican and has done countless installs just like this

Yes we've got yearly "inspections" in NSW. And I use that term loosely. Lets just say they check the basics...

No washers installed. No self-levellers. That is an intricate job and would be quite difficult to do.

They are not blinding and they've been levelled appropriately after lift. My generation Outback was was fitted standard with HID's on the Japanese versions so the lens are designed for HID's. I just added the projectors for better distribution of light. Good result IMO.

I honestly reckon you'll be fine with your car. It was designed for use with HID's fitted to higher trim models so the light won't scatter provided you stick to lower output 35w globes as opposed to the more popular 55w globes.

 

[Shiv]

what about thoes altra white and blue globes from supercheap etc do they have the same effect

Be careful with them. They add little in the way of useable light. Plus they are easily spotted by even the most novice of Police as being illegal because they usually have a blue tint on the bulb whereas HID's are clear. Blue bulbs are reserved for use by emergency vehicles only.

I second Stilson's comment RE: "+50" and "+80" globes. They're fully compliant and actually aid your vision rather than take away from it...

 

[Ratbag]

G'day again mate

This and when oncoming cars are angled to turn right.

I wear my sunglasses at night, I wear my sunglasses at night....

Do you take melatonin supplement?

Nah. But then I do have very regular medical examinations and broad-spectrum blood tests. Facts of life for me.

But I also avoid exposure to this kind of light (modern white street lights also have HID high colour temperature luminaires ... ), and always have - through dislike, not knowledge.

The pink night driving glasses change the colour temperature of the light in any event, by shifting the entire spectrum towards the red end of the spectrum.

This also improves contrast pretty dramatically. I have always had excellent night vision, and still have 20/10 vision at all distances - with my specs on, of course.

These HID headlights effectively turn an asset into a liability!!

 

[thunder039]

yea i was looking at the plus 50s narva brand these arent the blue ones

 

[stilson]

h1s dont the sg use h4?

First gen SG use H4

Second gen use H1 and HB3 I think.

I leave my low beams on all the time so I want to replace the H1 with a bi xenon projector for great lamp life and because the h1s are terribly dim plus I'll have a great high beam.

Then I'll put a performance halogen in the HB3 because I can sacrifice lamp life as I only high beam about 10hrs each year.

Shiv, your mates done a great job there, they look fantastic.

They look like morimoto minis.

I think I'm going to try to find a smashed headlight from a wrecker cheap to practice on before I start cutting my car up.

 

[stilson]

This is the projector shroud: