NA vs XT manual offroad

[bene313]

Has anyone compared NA and XT offroad in manual transmission? Obviously we have low-range in NA, but turbo in the XT.

Would be interested to hear of experiences.

 

[Rally]

This has been discussed previously. The more linear power delivery and low range of the NA is in most instances better. There are times when the turbo engine comes on boost at the wrong moment. No doubt there may be times when the turbo is better- and it certainly is on road. Having said that, if you pedal your non turbo keenly it is known that they can give a turbo a really hard time on the open road

 

[taza]

Offroad N/A with the dual range. Otherwise if your really keen put a dual range gearbox into a turbo manual Subie. Just don't drive like a P-Plater and it won't break

 

[thunder039]

the best way for a turbo offroad in slow circumstances is a auto.
other wise n/a dual range.
however if your offroading doesnt require a slow speed then i would pick the turbo
all depends on how you use your car offroading personally i would pick the n/a dual range if heading offroad due to offten its slow

 

[El_Freddo]

Plus the NA doesn't HAVE to run on 98 or 95. This goes well in my book

Cheers

Bennie

 

[thunder039]

Plus the NA doesn't HAVE to run on 98 or 95. This goes well in my book

Cheers

Bennie

+1 to that

 

[d_generate]

This thing goes pretty much anywhere and more now that it's lifted and it's usually got half a tonne of camping gear stuffed in the back 99% sure it's a manual and had a very hard life.

 

[thunder039]

This thing goes pretty much anywhere and more now that it's lifted and it's usually got half a tonne of camping gear stuffed in the back 99% sure it's a manual and had a very hard life.

i hvae no doubt the the turbo's go well offroad especially on the beach were the low range isnt 100% needed especially with the extra power of the turbo

 

[Rally]

Sand is not an area I have much experience so I'll leave that to those that do

 

[taza]

^^ Thats Adrian's Foz. Good mate of mine.

You can't count that in this discussion as it has been through hell. He has gone through more than 3 clutchs, i've lost count. Yes it's manual, always full of stuff. Has 2" lift in the front and -2" lift in the back due to stuffed springs and struts. lol

Has been in water over 1.5m deep and just hell in general. haha

In sand low range isn't neccessary but when you have to take off in really soft stuff, unless you have have it you will burn your clutch. When the turbo kicks in it's great for going up dunes and the likes though!

 

[mr turbo]

I'll throw another scenario into this, if I may ?
Are we referring to the 2.0 ltr or the 2.5 ltr.

For the 2.0 I think the turbo would have the advantage over a N/A, even when you take into account the duel range.
Especially when it come to a long, steep hill climb :iconwink:

However for the slower driving stuff, I would have to side with the N/A

When it comes to the 2.5 ltr, I would have to give the advantage to the N/A & duel range most of the time.

Like Rally said, with the turbo, the boost can be a somewhat dis-advantage if it cuts in/out at the wrong time.
Trust me. I've had it happen to me a few times

Too much power too early, & you'll start to spin your wheels
Back it off too early & drop the rev count too much, you'll loose the boost & run out of puff & stop part way up

Just my 2 cents worth

Regards
Mr Turbo

 

[taza]

I'll throw another scenario into this, if I may ?
Are we referring to the 2.0 ltr or the 2.5 ltr.

For the 2.0 I think the turbo would have the advantage over a N/A, even when you take into account the duel range.
Especially when it come to a long, steep hill climb :iconwink:

However for the slower driving stuff, I would have to side with the N/A

When it comes to the 2.5 ltr, I would have to give the advantage to the N/A & duel range most of the time.

Like Rally said, with the turbo, the boost can be a somewhat dis-advantage if it cuts in/out at the wrong time.
Trust me. I've had it happen to me a few times

Too much power too early, & you'll start to spin your wheels
Back it off too early & drop the rev count too much, you'll loose the boost & run out of puff & stop part way up

Just my 2 cents worth

Regards
Mr Turbo

I have to agree but it depends on the offroading your doing.....

Personally when I get a turbo manual (Yes when. lol) I will be putting a dual range box behind it. Or putting a dual range box behind the H6.

I find my dual range 2.0l N/A is good for what it is. The gearbox makes the best use of the gutless POS engine that's under the hood. While the gearing in the 2.5 N/A is appauling for any offroad use in stock form.

Or you just be hardcore like both Adrian and Mr Turbo and just have manual single range, turbo and go offroad :lol:

 

[Rally]

Hi Taza,

I think you'd be happy with this engine:

This gearbox:

and the rear diff on the right

and this gear knob in the palm of your hand?

Then just give it heaps

 

[taza]

^ I think you are right Rally... is that your Impreza?

I don't drive all as stupid as I make out, it's more so for sh*ts and giggles. I do give the Forester abit though, but with the engine in it's current condition it is pretty darn slow. Below 3000rpm is basically undrivable as you can't keep up with traffic While it burns through 2l of oil in 600km, all the sensors are fouled and it doesn't run well at all. Atleast the gearbox is nice and smooth though

 

[Biesel]

ifind the diesel forester really really good off road for a non dual range unit. the earlier diesels i think had some issues but subaru seem to have really fixed them in the my12 with the new tune and new turbo. having max torque at 1600rpm means the engine i've found has plenty of pull up really steap climbs from even 1200rpm. the real let down is still the bearbox though the ratios still aren't well suited on or off the road. i find the gap between first and second to big and 6th is unless even on the freeway. hopefully subaru will fix this in the new foz.

i don't know how the clutch will hold up but we'll see, sometimes i wish i got a XS with dual range then i see the 5.8L/100 read out on the dash and it sort of makes me feel better.

done 12000k in 2 months and it hasn't gotten stuck yet. my mate in his navara can't wait till i do and he has to rescue it. lol we'll see.

 

[mr turbo]

Or you just be hardcore like both Adrian and Mr Turbo and just have manual single range, turbo and go offroad :lol:

I like the way you think taza :biggrin:
With the turbo (manual single range) you just have to be more exact with the power in how much & when
But hey, thats part of the challenge

And yes Rally, that would be quite nice to have in the Forry

Regards
Mr Turbo

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday Biesel

ifind the diesel forester really really good off road for a non dual range unit. the earlier diesels i think had some issues but subaru seem to have really fixed them in the my12 with the new tune and new turbo. having max torque at 1600rpm means the engine i've found has plenty of pull up really steap climbs from even 1200rpm. the real let down is still the bearbox though the ratios still aren't well suited on or off the road. i find the gap between first and second to big and 6th is unless even on the freeway. hopefully subaru will fix this in the new foz.

The diesel has a very similar torque curve to the 2.5 L NA donk, just heaps more of it!

With Roo1 ('93 Impreza) the gearing was also RS. The gearing in Roo2, combined with much better gear ratios, FD ratio and wheel size - plus the rear vLSD - makes it far more capable in every respect, both on and off road.

Small hit on economy compared with the 1.8L donk. About 10~15% worse. BUT it is a much heavier, different shaped vehicle too.

i don't know how the clutch will hold up but we'll see, sometimes i wish i got a XS with dual range then i see the 5.8L/100 read out on the dash and it sort of makes me feel better.

done 12000k in 2 months and it hasn't gotten stuck yet. my mate in his navara can't wait till i do and he has to rescue it. lol we'll see.

I wish I could have that diesel engine in an MY06/07 Fox, but that's just fantasy stuff.

My fuel consumption is nearly double yours ...

 

[Rally]

Yes Taza, that's my Impreza. all very TIC of course- I think a 3.6 H6 or diesel would be better engines for off roading- and of course the gearbox sump-very rare for a manual- is exposed. But what is the saying- getting there should be at least half the fun.....:lol:

 

[taza]

Yes Taza, that's my Impreza. all very TIC of course- I think a 3.6 H6 or diesel would be better engines for off roading- and of course the gearbox sump-very rare for a manual- is exposed. But what is the saying- getting there should be at least half the fun.....:lol:

Wow would I ever love to go in one even if I wasn't driving!

An EZ30 would be alright and diesel(EE20) would probably break a dual range manual gearbox with all the torque. I did notice the gearbox sump, I thought to myself really!. I'm guessing it's part of the 6 speed box?

It would be a first EE20 swap though, as I don't think anyone has put one in anything other than a 3rd gen forester or 5th gen ob or 6th gen lib..

 

[guzzla]

No doubt there may be times when the turbo is better- and it certainly is on road. Having said that, if you pedal your non turbo keenly it is known that they can give a turbo a really hard time on the open road

You're joking surely. My brother has an 03 X manual and I have an 07 XT manual and the XT kills the X anywhere at any revs and any speed but especially on the open road - and seemingly with no penalty to the fuel consumption. We have driveb them a lot in many different conditions in convoy and swapping drivers. There is nowhere either of us would choose to have the X over the XT other than that slow crawl in challenging off-road stuff.