P-Plater laws

[Ratbag]

i think there are other ways to reduce the death toll rather then increasing the probationary age. i personally think that the best way to reduce the death for probationary drivers would be to make the test harder and to have some sort of mandatory course for safe driver to make the driver more experienced.
a experience 21y.o driver will be safer on the road then a 21y.o who is only relatively experienced

With all due respect, there will only ever be a very small number of "experienced" 21 y.o. drivers.

AND there is still the psychological aspect of being (particularly) a young male. Most who get the chance grow out of this, as it is a maturational thing that is remedied by age.

With the very best will in the World, one cannot (nor should one try to) put an old head on young shoulders.

Part of the process of maturing necessarily involves the making of one's own mistakes.

Ask anyone you know over about 30 about this, and they will almost invariably tell you exactly what I have just told you. I have a small advantage in having formal qualifications in this area, but most fully mature adults know this because it is true, and they have been through the process to gain that understanding.

All we can ever hope to do with our young is to help them to avoid the common mistakes. The sort of mistakes that making them once can lead to them being dead. Fat lot of use that experience is to them ...

When I got my licence, there was no experiential requirement (minimum number of hours of supervised instruction), no written test - just a practical test done by a Policeman at the licence testing office (or your local country copper if you lived in a country town).
The licence was unrestricted from day one.
The death rate was horrendous!

So the modern system is far tougher than that; and the road kill among our young drivers has plummeted.

Last year there were 1507 deaths in Oz. When I first came to Victoria in 1981, Victoria's death toll alone was that high.

The problem with changing these things is that they usually take a very long time to change. The benefits are often not seen for years, and as Rally has said many times, the hardest thing to change is attitudes.

For just one example, the attitude that one has a right to drive (and kill or maim oneself and/or others).
In reality, one has a right to do only what society through the legislature allows one to do.
I am very much in favour of formalising what I did informally, and that is requiring a second advanced driving test in order to get off one's P Plates, but only after the minimum period has passed as a 'green P-Plater'.

I am also in favour of moving the P Plate boundary to 23 or 24 y.o., not in reducing the period, as the statistics show that up to the age of 22 y.o. drivers are a very serious risk to themselves and to others, and that risk does not normalise until around 25 y.o.

 

[aware]

I didn't expect this to become a thread on its own - Interesting to read through the thread and see a lot of good ideas and a good discussion on P plate laws. I have to agree that the current system is a joke. I went in to get my P's 3 years ago with 155 hours instead of the required 120. I felt more confident that I knew what to do, but obviously spending these past three years in the car nearly everyday, with peak hour traffic etc I have learnt far more than I ever did as a Learner and I believe I still have more to learn.

Within the first year of driving i had already done a driving course, and I will be going to undertake more this year once I've saved some more money. I found that even the most basic course has taught me a huge amount about car control than any driving lesson. I believe that it should be mandatory for all drivers to undertake an advanced driving course. An interesting point that my tester raised after I passed my P's test in 2009 was that quite often they could pick those that had done the hours, and those that hadn't and had faked the log book. I'm not saying that this is a justification of the current system, but it must have achieved something - even if there is a minor increase in the skill of young drivers.

I had a good learning experience about P platers and what can happen within 4 weeks of getting my P's in 2009. We heard a loud bang outside our house (we have moved since then) and found this outside:

 

[thunder039]

Neither. I didn't have to do a hill start, or a parallel park even! Even now ive still never done a parallel park because im hopeless at them, id rather find another spot.



Agreed. I don't think increasing the P plate length with achieve anything at all. Although me personally having P plates makes no difference to me (besides red Ps with a night curfew), but once on green P's i won't really care, as the only difference is you can have a bit of alcohol and drive, and more demerit points. If im driving i wont be drinking at all any so that makes no difference.

Experience is the biggest factor, the best way to do that is more learner training, longer log book hours (in WA) and stricter enforcement that these hours have been completed.

totally agree about everything :lol:

and ratbag i will reply to you when i get home :iconwink:

 

[thunder039]

I didn't expect this to become a thread on its own - Interesting to read through the thread and see a lot of good ideas and a good discussion on P plate laws. I have to agree that the current system is a joke. I went in to get my P's 3 years ago with 155 hours instead of the required 120. I felt more confident that I knew what to do, but obviously spending these past three years in the car nearly everyday, with peak hour traffic etc I have learnt far more than I ever did as a Learner and I believe I still have more to learn.

Within the first year of driving i had already done a driving course, and I will be going to undertake more this year once I've saved some more money. I found that even the most basic course has taught me a huge amount about car control than any driving lesson. I believe that it should be mandatory for all drivers to undertake an advanced driving course. An interesting point that my tester raised after I passed my P's test in 2009 was that quite often they could pick those that had done the hours, and those that hadn't and had faked the log book. I'm not saying that this is a justification of the current system, but it must have achieved something - even if there is a minor increase in the skill of young drivers.

I had a good learning experience about P platers and what can happen within 4 weeks of getting my P's in 2009. We heard a loud bang outside our house (we have moved since then) and found this outside:

yep the current system realy is a joke. fair to easy to get your license and far to much lack of experience.
the lack of experience and the lack of knowledge of what can happen when something does go wrong is the biggest issue with young drivers, not what they can and cant drive and for how long.

i think we can all agree that the current system is a joke and that experience, and attitude are some of the biggest issues

 

[thunder039]

With all due respect, there will only ever be a very small number of "experienced" 21 y.o. drivers.

the main issue

AND there is still the psychological aspect of being (particularly) a young male. Most who get the chance grow out of this, as it is a maturational thing that is remedied by age.

this will always be the case, there is always going to be stupid people on the road

When I got my licence, there was no experiential requirement (minimum number of hours of supervised instruction), no written test - just a practical test done by a Policeman at the licence testing office (or your local country copper if you lived in a country town).
The licence was unrestricted from day one.
The death rate was horrendous!

it has improved since then but the system still needs some fine tunning. also i think the due to car safety improvement the death toll has reduced

The problem with changing these things is that they usually take a very long time to change. The benefits are often not seen for years, and as Rally has said many times, the hardest thing to change is attitudes.

true

I am also in favour of moving the P Plate boundary to 23 or 24 y.o., not in reducing the period, as the statistics show that up to the age of 22 y.o. drivers are a very serious risk to themselves and to others, and that risk does not normalise until around 25 y.o.

i dont think the extra year with a green sticker on the car will reduce the death toll, only education and better driver instruction.
a p plate on the car doesnt stop people from speeding or crashing nor does an extra year with them stop people from speeding and making stupid mistakes. but what would in my opinion is more work to be done with drivers before they are on the road by themselves

 

[thunder039]

this somewhat feels like the climate change thread all over again :rotfl:

 

[Ratbag]

G'day again Thunder

re: https://offroadsubarus.com/showpost.php?p=42982&postcount=25

I think you are still missing the point entirely.

Look at the ABS database.

I spent about 90 minutes feeding parameters into this today.

The distinct impression I got from this examination (hardly even approaching any sort of in-depth analysis ... ) supports the view I have put in this thread, and elsewhere on this site IMHO.

You are partially correct about improvements in car design (and a whole lot of other things that you haven't mentioned) contributing to the decline in the road toll.

However, can you attempt to explain why these improvements have selectively benefited older drivers, and car passengers proportionally more than they have benefited drivers under the age of 25?

The answer appears to be fairly obvious to me; but I am always open to having the error of my ways pointed out to me ... :iconwink: :ebiggrin: .

 

[thunder039]

G'day again Thunder

re: https://offroadsubarus.com/showpost.php?p=42982&postcount=25

I think you are still missing the point entirely.

Look at the ABS database.

I spent about 90 minutes feeding parameters into this today.

The distinct impression I got from this examination (hardly even approaching any sort of in-depth analysis ... ) supports the view I have put in this thread, and elsewhere on this site IMHO.

You are partially correct about improvements in car design (and a whole lot of other things that you haven't mentioned) contributing to the decline in the road toll.

However, can you attempt to explain why these improvements have selectively benefited older drivers, and car passengers proportionally more than they have benefited drivers under the age of 25?

mainly because i think there are people out there who will drive reckless regardless of the rules. unfortuntly there is alot of these people. i think it also has to do with experiece that majority of motorist have

now that i have some more time to think and look at the stats i spose i cant argue that if having the p plate untill 22 saves lives then it must be the best thing to be done. regardless whether it will effect my driving style if it helps one family then its done its job.
so while i agree about the driving age i think we can also agree that more needs to be done on driver education across australia.

so while agree with the p plates untill 22 i still dont understand the not allowing to drive a xt forester over a 4liter falcon ute but we will have to wait for vic road response to your email.

 

[taza]

In WA we have no restrictions.

I could go out tomorrow and buy a V8 or V12 powered car, throw my P plates up and drive out of the dealer!
It wouldn't be a wise decision but I could do it and nothing bar the fact I am a poor uni student is stopping me.

 

[thunder039]

In WA we have no restrictions.

I could go out tomorrow and buy a V8 or V12 powered car, throw my P plates up and drive out of the dealer!

yes restrictions in the most make sense, i know i would of lost a lot more of my freinds if they could drive a v8 commodore

bar the fact I am a poor uni student is stopping me.

lol tell me about it

 

[shotgun willie]

wow, never realized how hard it was to get a driver's license in Australia. Not sure if I'm glad that it was so easy in the US or scared that we probably have a lot of bad drivers.

 

[Kevin]

Be afraid, be very afraid! :lol:

Especially when anyone in the US can drive a 40' RV off the lot on a standard drivers licence!

 

[Rally]

You should see what Germany is like. Then again, German drivers are much better than Australian drivers.

wow, never realized how hard it was to get a driver's license in Australia. Not sure if I'm glad that it was so easy in the US or scared that we probably have a lot of bad drivers.

 

[mr turbo]

You should see what Germany is like. Then again, German drivers are much better than Australian drivers.

Yes it is my understanding that they have some very strict testing when it comes to gaining a drivers license

Regards
Mr Turbo