Lowered cars

Rally

Rally

Forum Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
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Location
Sydney
Car Year
1999
Car Model
WRX
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6 Speed
It was mentioned in another thread the number of lowered Foresters out there. Lowered cars- not just Forries- are lowered either because people think they will make the car the handle better or because it looks better- or both. While it can make the car look better, lowering them to the deck means you end up with a car that has no grip. On a recent skidpan, I lent someone my car who has an MY00 V6 STI. The car has been lowered at least 50mm. He could not believe the difference in grip. The difference was certainly not due to the tyres and mostly due to his car being lowered. Cars are designed to work best at the ride height they come with. Move too far from this point and you have wrecked the geometry and it costs a lot of money to get the geometry correct. While I am happy to modify my cars, both my cars retain their standard ride height and will continue to do so for everyday driving.
 
Gidday Rally

Interesting that you echo my thoughts on vehicles in general with your practical example.

Unless they are absolutely rotten design to start with (and some cars are), in which case almost nothing will fix them, cars are designed by expert engineers who usually have a very good idea of what they are doing.

If you need a 10 ton truck, buy a 10 ton truck.
Do not expect your ute or a 5 ton truck to do the same job for you ...
 
I wouldn't lower a car for one main reason. That being that you scrap your bumper on curbs and speed bumps, i'd rather not especially if its a nice car(not an offroad car).
Lowering can help with handling but if you go too low then it can of course have bad effects.

Raising well since I offroad the Foz I see it as worth it. I cause $2000-3000 worth of damage without it lifted and since the lift next to know physical damage has occured yet and it was only 50mm of lift.

I see way more lowered Foresters than raised around Perth. On the few occasions when I pull up next to them at lights they just look and stare :lol:

EDIT: with an offroad car though you have to expect damage to happen, scratches to occur. Otherwise don't take it offroad!!
 
Part of the problem is that people cannot see roll centres and they cannot see the centre of gravity. Therefore they cannot "see"the problem. So when you start lowering the car for example, they lower the roll centre so far that grip generated by the weight of the car is not used to provide mechanical down force on the tyres. Instead, only the lateral forces provided by the weight is applied to the tyres, and without the mechanical downforce the grip of the tyres is quickly overcome. Lower many cars 50mm- which is quite common-and the roll centre is often actually below the surface of the road. So these cars which look fast are in fact slower. Lower is slower.

Of course, raising cars will also affect the roll centre and centre of gravity. A swerve and recover exercise to miss a roo could be the difference between avoidance and rolling the vehicle. In big 4WD's, bigger sway bars will make a big difference. Unfortunately, bigger sway bars on cars like the Forester will limit wheel articulation- much much less of an issue with full size 4WD's.
 
i personally dont see the point on lowering a car just makes it harder to get in and out of :iconwink:
i see so many lowered SUV cars especially forester GT's and the ford territory. i dont see the point personally there are mainy other wagons that are already low on the market, that you dont need to lower your SUV.
makes it even worse when you see them with big shiny rims and low profile tires :lol: such a waste of a good GT or XT :twisted:
 
Since I put the Bilsteins and King lows my Liberty it handles exceptionally well I think most Subi's are quite happy with a 25-30mm drop with positive effects, any lower starts throwing things out but one of the worst is having the suspension too stiff to the point where the car skips instead of steers.

Prime example is the STI Forester, it's way lower than the standard and done because Subaru worked out it would handle better, most manufacturers will lower a sport version of any car they put out and they were all originally designed with the same roll center in mind.
 
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25mm is about the limit. What is interesting is when you start looking at the data. While cars that are very low feel fast, the data shows that in fact they are not. Some of the blokes in the WRX Club for example analyse their data very carefully. It is quite amazing that at club level we are using equipment that 20 years or so ago was lucky to be in F1.

Unless you change the pick up points or alter other hardware accordingly, it is inevitable than when you lower a car you lower the roll centre- that is simple geometry. The manufacturer knows this and may in fact use different parts to allow for this.
 
taza said:
Man I would love to see the H6 Foz lowered and on 17's with its front and rear bars. That would look sick :raspberry:
Click to expand...
Now that would make it's approach & departure angles quite interesting indeed :p

Regards
Mr Turbo
 
taza said:
What about your car mate :lol: It would blend right in being a turbo and with the front and rear bars while 100mm from the ground!
Click to expand...

After reading your last post taza, I just couldn't resist doing a quick photo chop to see what it would look like & this is what I came up with :cool:

Before :biggrin: :ebiggrin: :biggrin:
raisedmyforry.jpg


After :puke: :shake:
loweredmyforry.jpg


I think I'll stay with the raised look I think :iconwink: :cool:

Regards
Mr Turbo
 
mr turbo said:
After reading your last post taza, I just couldn't resist doing a quick photo chop to see what it would look like & this is what I came up with :cool:

Before :biggrin: :ebiggrin: :biggrin:
raisedmyforry.jpg


After :puke: :shake:
loweredmyforry.jpg


I think I'll stay with the raised look I think :iconwink: :cool:

Regards
Mr Turbo
Click to expand...

haha

The lowered look all the way. The front and rear baars suit it lowered I reckon and still have decent approach and depart angles :raspberry: Just as some 17" sports rims and low profiles and your away :discomonkey:

But yes raised is much better :iconwink:
 
Rally, very interesting mate!

But you've forgotten one very important part of the equation (and yes, I've read the whole thread this time!): Cut springs definitely overcome the issue of traction loss due to suspension geometry changes after lowering a vehicle :poke:

Great topic mate! I realise the effects of raising a vehicle and drive accordingly. I'd rather have a vehicle that will stand up to our crap roads we've got in this day and age... I've not bent a rim due to a pot hole either!

Cheers

Bennie
 
Ah yes, the CIG modified springs. Performance reduction on the cheap! But hang on- you live in Vic- outside of the ACT the best roads in Oz. How often do you come across crap roads- when you cross the border into NSW?:lol:
 
Rally said:
How often do you come across crap roads- when you cross the border into NSW?:lol:
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What's my reason for crossing the border into NSW?? :poke:

Cheers

Bennie
 
taza said:
The lowered look all the way. The front and rear baars suit it lowered I reckon and still have decent approach and depart angles :raspberry: Just as some 17" sports rims and low profiles and your away :discomonkey:
Click to expand...

Haha Taza you're such a goose lol :iconwink:

El_Freddo said:
But you've forgotten one very important part of the equation (and yes, I've read the whole thread this time!): Cut springs definitely overcome the issue of traction loss due to suspension geometry changes after lowering a vehicle :poke:
Click to expand...

Do you mean cut or lowered? Apart from being totally illegal, cut springs are usually done by some nimrod with less clue than an average house plant!

Rally, totally agree. If you look at the Aussie supercars, they are very low BUT have custom suspension points plus adjustment for everything incl roll centre height. If lower was always better then they would just set the car up as low as it would go within the rules & without dragging on curbs. There would be no need for adjustment for roll centre height.
 
And they have engineers on team who know about suspension design, geometry, etc- although with these cars the pick up points are all mandated.

Why come to NSW- to check out rough roads the suspension. If it performs well in NSW- you're set up well for pretty much anywhere for rough roads.
 
Nachaluva said:
Do you mean cut or lowered? Apart from being totally illegal, cut springs are usually done by some nimrod with less clue than an average house plant!
Click to expand...

Yeah I meant cut. And that's the exact reason why I was saying it sarcastically!

Rally said:
Why come to NSW- to check out rough roads the suspension. If it performs well in NSW- you're set up well for pretty much anywhere for rough roads.
Click to expand...

Don't need to! We've got our own here. And now they're re-sealing roads in such a fashion that a freshly re-sealed road isn't a smooth one!! What they do is fill in only the pot holes, don't worry about the other dips and bumps in the road surface, then they re-surface the road.

End result? A new looking road surface with all the old bumps and dips built into it! I've only seen one area that's been hot-mixed over as it was terrible and down right dangerous - false sense of security = new surface that looked smooth and safe but was actually bumpy to the point it would throw the car around a bit!

I don't know why people would be lowering cars with the roads in these conditions! You'll be paying more in damages to your car than you would have in the first place for the lowering of your vehicle!!

Cheers

Bennie
 
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