A New Trailer for the Ratbag ...

Ratbag · Jan 30, 2015

Not a silly question at all, Rob. Thanks for the suggestion.

However, I do have some reasons for this arrangement.

Even though the rear seats in my Forester actually do fold flat (they didn't in my '93 Impreza), I still prefer to have the seats in their normal position. I also plug both the side seatbelts in when travelling on the open road. This will enable the the car to withstand a rear end shunt better.

The seats and belts are rated devices. They also (will) assist the cargo barrier to stay in place when I get it fitted soon. The child safety device tie down points are also rated points. I prefer to use rated points for tying stuff down.
The cargo area tie down points are not rated points, AFAIK.

Having the seats up also prevents a casual observer from seeing what might be in the cargo area. I love hatch backs, but they need a proper shelf in them, not the bloody silly (and cheap ... ) cargo blinds that have become ubiquitous. I made one for Roo1 that had 3x 20 kg bags of pool salt on it once! It bowed somewhat alarmingly, but resumed its normal shape afterwards. I sort of copied the design of one in a Ford Laser of the early 1990s.

Once I have fitted the cargo barrier to Roo2, I plan to make a similar cargo shelf that attaches to that. Except that it will be stronger ...

I can't pack anything right up next to the fridge. Being a 3 way, it needs all the ventilation it can get! Having it like this will give it lots of airflow, and also allows ease of access to it when it's in the car. I may even fit a couple of 120 mm computer case fans to the back of the shelf I will build for it. They draw bugger all current, and can shift a lot of air past the heat exchanger ... :biggrin:.

This position also makes it less likely to move, as both it and the secondary battery are physically wedged in. I also plug the front P/S seatbelt in when travelling.

Finally, it also means that I can carry two passengers in the back, at a pinch. With the fridge sitting front to rear, that isn't possible.

All this seems sensible to me, but no one has to agree with my thinking, and I'm always open to suggestions and comments anyway ... :iconwink:.

Robbks · Jan 30, 2015

All sounds fair to me mate.

zippo · Jan 30, 2015

Ratbag said:
Thanks for mentioning though. Both will be tied in when fitted properly.

That was one (other?) thing I was rather anal about with the second battery and Engel fridge installation in my SG. I have seen the results of inadequately secured cargo in a variety of accidents, so I do feel obliged to add my 2c worth of warning in these threads.

Ratbag · Jan 30, 2015

^ It's one of the reasons that I insisted that my SWMBO's SH has a cargo barrier in it. She didn't like it much at first! She is often carrying 10 kg blocks of clay around in it. You really don't want something like that hitting you in the back of the head in an accident ...

I'm also pretty anal about safety ... :poke:

ateday · Jan 30, 2015

Remove seat altogether and make a simple wooden frame for fridge to sit into.
Makes car into a two seater but if only two people it works.

Ratbag · Jan 30, 2015

^ All well and good, and not a bad solution, except that I will often need to carry 3 people when I am away.

Basically, that means I have to take the rear seat squab with me ...

Best if I can reach a simple compromise solution. Folding the seat down also puts the fridge too high up in the car.

I really wish that manufacturers would make fridges that are smaller than the one we use here at home ... :poke:

:lol:. A 25L fridge about 40-50 mm lower than the 35L would suit me fine. One can buy small compressor fridges, but they cost as much as the bigger versions, and can only run on 12/240V. That means a miniature power station to run it ...

zippo · Jan 30, 2015

ateday said:
Remove seat altogether and make a simple wooden frame for fridge to sit into.
Makes car into a two seater but if only two people it works.

Indeed, exactly how I did for the trip across Oz last year - only two of us:

https://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e226/skyline2000au/Rear seat platform/DSC00238_zps9a62e61b.jpg

https://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e226/skyline2000au/Rear seat platform/P1040509_zpsec42ad9d.jpg

and held down using existing bolts:

https://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e226/skyline2000au/Rear seat platform/DSC00236_zps61f49d6d.jpg

https://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e226/skyline2000au/Rear seat platform/DSC00234_zpsc004aa68.jpg

Didn't take any pics of the Engel on it unfortunately. (On the right side of that second pic, the auxiliary battery under the front P/S side seat is visible, but the retaining bracket is hidden by the seat.)

I'm still frustrated by attempts to post a pic in-line :shrug:

Ratbag · Jan 31, 2015

^ Gidday Zippo

Thanks for your suggestion and photos.

BTW, I have fixed these.

If you edit your post, you will see that I have embedded the link to the .JPG file within IMG ... /IMG tags, instead of URL ... /URL tags. I have left the old HTML tags there so that you can check out the difference. Hope this helps.

Don't use the "world with a chain link" icon, use the "yellow sky with mountains and the Sun in the top right corner" icon instead and you will be home laughing.

Ratbag · Feb 23, 2015

Further to my testing of my Gasmate 35 L three way fridge here:

https://offroadsubarus.com/showpost.php?p=72790&postcount=78

I have been testing it with the hot humid weather here. It's in our laundry, and the ambient yesterday was about 27C. With a pre-frozen medical product cold pack in the bottom (about 10*250*175 mm), it has been maintaining minus 3C with the thermostat on Max on 240V.
The med pack is still as solid as a rock after 18 hours.

It should be better than this running on gas.

The real secret with 3 way fridges is to pre-cool both the fridge and anything that goes into it.

zippo · Feb 23, 2015

I'd be interested to see how it goes on 12V. That is usually a bad third place on 3-ways. But it IS worth testing in advance, if you have a suitable 12V source.

Ratbag · Feb 23, 2015

^ So will I, Zip :poke:

.

I chucked four freezer blocks into it about 2 hours ago, and it's now running at less than minus 7C. I'll have change thermometers.

BTW, all the temperature measurements are done with the thermometer lying on top of the heat exchanger at the top of the fridge innards. It's colder at the bottom ...

Robbks · Feb 23, 2015

Pack it with milk-bottles full of water/ ice and do your measurements
You'll get a much more realistic representation of how it'll perform when you're cooling something with thermal mass,
fridges aren't that good at cooling air.

Ratbag · Feb 23, 2015

^ Good suggestion. Thanks, Rob. I will collect and freeze the next crop of 2L milk containers for the purpose.

ATM, I need to defrost the freezer in our fridge anyway. It was bought in about 1978. Still going strong

.

ateday · Feb 23, 2015

I have an ancient Sadec, French, 3 way purchased for about $150 in the early 80`s.
They are not great on 12 volt unless stationary.
Useless when moving in a car.
Gas and 240 V good but being made for European conditions not all that well insulated.

Ratbag · Feb 23, 2015

^ that makes sense about the movement factor.

Really stresses the need for the fridge to be as cold as possible when running on gas or 240V prior to running it on 12V while on the move.

Mine is running at minus 5-7°C on 240V ATM. This is around 26°C below ambient temperature.

The Gasmate also uses 90W whether running on 12V or 240V. I suspect that some of these fridges use less power when running on 12V. Don't know though.

However, I do understand that just shoving it into the car at ambient temperature, then loading it up with warm Coke cans isn't going to work very well :lol:.

crazydave · Feb 23, 2015

Ratbag

The maximum theoretical cooling you can get from one of those 3 way fridges is about 33 or 35C. I have an ancient finch the brown one and get about 26-27 like you are reporting. It was fairly ordinary in the car on 12v. If you are using it for medial reasons I would get a insulated bag for it as they are all a bit lacking. It will need to be well ventilated at the back and you will have to take it off if using gas.

I made one using an old foam sleeping matt and a couple of straps to hold it on - It just does the sides of the fridge but it did improve its effectiveness. Particularly on 12V in the car the second thing I did was run some big donkey wire to the rear power socket so as to minimise the voltage drop and that improved things again. I now get about 25 below ambient in the car - fire up the Ac and have that at about 23-25 and all is good.

When it gets really hot 35-40C I put a wet towel over the lid and don't open the fridge unless I have to and pray for a cold front to come through. it is a bit of a battle and in the middle of the hot day the temperature is not really where I want it gets up to 5-8C - but gets down again over night - having said that milk still keeps for about 7 days so can't be that bad on average.

Ratbag · Feb 23, 2015

Many thanks for those suggestions, Dave. I have bookmarked your post for future reference.

I have some old sleeping bags. Cotton outer and stuffing. Others that are nylon. Which do you think would be best to cut up?

My SWMBO is a dab hand at the sewing machine if I cut out the pattern.

I also intend to run some 120 mm computer fans blowing up its kilt when in the car.

I am trying like buggery to avoid rewiring the car, but I can see it is becoming inevitable.

Ratbag · Feb 23, 2015

Just been re-reading your post, Dave.

Since I am every bit as sensitive to heat as a 3 way fridge is, I tend to have the air conditioning turned up.

Last summer, I went for a drive up around Gembrook and Bunyip on a 47°C day. According to the car's thermometer, it was 47 where I was. The air conditioning in Roo2 handled it beautifully. I was as cool as :biggrin:! It was one of the big reasons for trading in Roo1.

crazydave · Feb 23, 2015

Ratbag,

My other half is a bit like you re temperature but where we got caught was when we stopped in a town and spent longer than expected wandering around on a hot day. 3-4 hours of the car parked in the sun instead of 30 minutes in the shade of the tree we parked under. It would have been fine if the sun stayed still.:iconwink:

The fridge warmed up but it did not come down when we ran the car. It was probably about 15C - fortunate for us we had vacuum packed meat(that started frozen and wasn't when we go to the destination) and sealed uht milk so all was ok. But for medical stuff depending on temp required and variation allowed it was not the best.

The tea cosy will slow down the warm up and the thick cable will mean the fridge can pull down the temp on 12v.

I would think any old sleeping bag would do the job if someone has the sewing skills. If it will keep you warm it will have to slow down the heat transfer from/to the fridge.

Ratbag · Feb 23, 2015

Dave, that is such a good point. Thank you. Keeping the cool in the fridge is a bucket load easier than trying to put it back in!

I'm so used to throwing a blanket over my camera gear when I have to leave any of it in the car, chucking a very thick cover over the frig would quickly become second nature to me. As would removing it before moving off.

I always carry wool blankets in our cars. Animal rescue; bushfire protection; etc.

None of my medications need to be kept cooler than about 30°C, so they can live quite happily in my little Peltier effect cooler.

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