foz v o/b questions questions questions

what would prefer?

  • power

    Votes: 2 28.6%

  • dual range

    Votes: 5 71.4%

  • auto / manual

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    7

electropower

Forum Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
8
hi everyone.
im in the market for an off road subaru and im looking for comparisons between the forester 98-08' and outback 03-09', i know there are some threads already on here but i dont think my questions have been answered and i did not want to go hi jacking other threads.

looking at the OZZI releases only as thats where i am.

currently im driving the MY03 B4 liberty/legacy. so im looking for a power plant. which naturally leads me to the GT/XT forester or the 3.0 / 3.6L outback

how ever i have potential issues with both:
-subaru never made a GT/XT forester with a d/r gear box. i've heard that the low range in the standard foresters was a dismal step down and was not worth having the low range is this true?????
-also with the turbo'd forester the bonnet scoop.... what that like with puddles/rivers? would it get flooded with water?
-and my issue with the 3.0 / 3.6L outback is that it was never released in manual.
i would much prefer a manual. what do the auto's go like off road?

i have had two L series before: one that was a dual range manual, and one that was simply auto. the manual d/r one absolutely killed it on the sand dunes, and the auto was shizzer house.
which is why im after a powerful dual range manual

planning a trip to Frazer island so will i really need the low range i think
which ever i get there will be mods 2" body lift to start, both front an rear bars. may be even a suspension lift as well (3")
there seams to be more foz modified then there are outbacks, is there a reason for this?

ive found the foresters are generally cheaper to buy then the outback but the outbacks have more k's for the same year mod.
being a subi fanatic i know the outbacks are bigger more comfy etc etc

can anyone persuade me to get a non d/r gear box or an Auto or a less power full NA forester or 2.5l outback?

the off roading ill be doing will be 95% sand so basically what do i need more?
POWER?
DUAL RANGE?
MANUAL/AUTO?

thanks everyone in advance
 
Last edited:
The dual range, while not ideal is still useful. You can change the ratio for low range but it is not a simple exercise. The bonnet scoop only cools air going into the intercooler, it is not an engine intake. The engine intake is mounted high but being a petrol engines there is obviously a limit with regards ignition. so no difference then between the turbo/non turbo really.

Kevin has had great success offroad in his auto, but my preference is for the manual. The Forester is better offroad than the Outback due to better approach and departure angles. The problem with the turbo is that it comes on boost at times when you would rather it did not, which makes it harder offroad, but better on road.

So the non turbo 4 is better offroad than the turbo, and if driven keenly can keep many turbos in sight or behind on the road. But you need to keep up momentum, unlike the turbo. With the H6, or any auto, I would consider a dedicated transmission cooler, especially if driven on sand. Not having driven on sand I do not know how they would go, but Kevin is the guru and he will have a better idea.

The amount of grunt a dual range box will handle is limited. With a gear case about the same size as a single range, things are not that big (strong) inside. If you can live with an auto and the overhangs, then the H6 might be the go, and the 3.6 apparently is appreciably torquier than the 3.0. But if I were getting one again, if it were petrol I would get a poverty pack Forester manual with dual range.
 
I have the '05 manual 2.5 Outback.

  • Primary mod required for sand driving is a SubaXtreme sump guard. This is a MUST. You will lose the plastic thing the first time you hit sand.
  • The key with all boxer engines is to keep the revs up. Subarus are no exception. (But I'm guessing you already know that.)
  • The one 'deficiency' of the Outback relative to the Forester is approach and departure angles.
  • A lift, as you propose, and a SubaXtreme front bar should take care of that.
  • Lift kits are more limited for the Outback than the Forrie, but subtle 1" + King Springs gives a total of 2" rear and 1.6" front.
  • Don't know of any after-market rear bars for the 05-09, as SubaXtreme don't make one. However, there is much of the lower part of the rear bumper which could be 'removed' (as has been done to a Forrie by one OBS member) and the towing hitch modded to attach higher.
  • HANSA make a 2" hitch mount 'rear step bar' which could give you a bit of additional rear protection without any loss of departure angle. (Apparently $199 through Autobarn.)
I recon these cars are pretty much optimum for touring / offroad - can even sleep in the car!
Of course, I guess I'm biassed. :lol:
 
electropower said:
how ever i have potential issues with both:
-subaru never made a GT/XT forester with a d/r gear box. i've heard that the low range in the standard foresters was a dismal step down and was not worth having the low range is this true?????
-also with the turbo'd forester the bonnet scoop.... what that like with puddles/rivers? would it get flooded with water?
-and my issue with the 3.0 / 3.6L outback is that it was never released in manual.
i would much prefer a manual. what do the auto's go like off road?

can anyone persuade me to get a non d/r gear box or an Auto or a less power full NA forester or 2.5l outback?

the off roading ill be doing will be 95% sand so basically what do i need more?
POWER?
DUAL RANGE?
MANUAL/AUTO?

thanks everyone in advance
Click to expand...

• Any Subaru behind Turbo doesnt come with Dual Range because it wasnt needed, plus turbo kills low range if not treated carefully, I know a few people do have Dual Range behind turbo (aftermarket change over) and they havent blown the box yet..
• EZ30 & EZ36 (3 and 3.6 litre) didnt have manual in their release, several owners have converted to either single range manual or dual range manual and modify the loom as well..
• For me, i get really bored with automatics, and I'd rather drive manuals, Ive driven automatic subaru thru bush and goes well but manuals i find them LOT easier to handle with in bush as sometimes automatics goes stupid whereabout manuals doesnt.
• Sand Driving - Automatic does it/copes really well. But I refuse to drive my car on the beach/sandy areas - so I cant help, but offroad in bush manual is way to go.
• Outback is more comfortable to drive in than Forester. But outback & Liberty lucks lower ratio low range. Hence, you can convert the low range with L series's low range in AWD box, I have a thread coming on here soon.
Cheers
AP
 
Barry said:
I have the '05 manual 2.5 Outback.

  • Lift kits are more limited for the Outback than the Forrie, but subtle 1" + King Springs gives a total of 2" rear and 1.6" front.
Click to expand...
Not really, you can install blocks and strut lift on Outbacks even Liberty, Just as same as Forester, you even can do that on Impreza.
Cheers
AP
 
AlpineRaven said:
[/list]
Not really, you can install blocks and strut lift on Outbacks even Liberty, Just as same as Forester, you even can do that on Impreza.
Cheers
AP
Click to expand...
attachment.php
 
What I meant was that there seemed to be many more suppliers providing kits for the Forester and earlier Outback / Legacy models, L-Series, etc, than there are for the 05-09 Outback.
Yes, it is possible to do a body for the 05-09 Outback however, based on threads here and other sites, I have seen numerous posts regarding lack of timely response to queries, non-postage of kits / delays in construction of kits / kits missing the required adaptors to (e.g. steering column) to complete the lift.
Of course, if you are up for building and fitting a body lift kit yourself then I guess that is a different matter.
 
Howdy and :welcome:electropower!!!

Check the "Buying and Selling Subarus" section of the forum, you might find a couple of vehicles that interest you. :)
 
Barry said:
What I meant was that there seemed to be many more suppliers providing kits for the Forester and earlier Outback / Legacy models, L-Series, etc, than there are for the 05-09 Outback.
Yes, it is possible to do a body for the 05-09 Outback however, based on threads here and other sites, I have seen numerous posts regarding lack of timely response to queries, non-postage of kits / delays in construction of kits / kits missing the required adaptors to (e.g. steering column) to complete the lift.
Of course, if you are up for building and fitting a body lift kit yourself then I guess that is a different matter.
Click to expand...

Ah righto fair enough, yeah that is true and I've noticed its getting "harder" to find an supplier, the only one I can think of that is going is CrossBreed that is doing them.
Cheers
AP
 
Haven't read thread, but the best possible thing for sand is a powerful auto.

My XT Auto Forester with bullbar and 50mm lift, did 600km on Fraser without getting stuck. Did most tracks, and even some overgrown 'minor' tracks.
 
electropower said:
the off roading ill be doing will be 95% sand so basically what do i need more?
POWER?
DUAL RANGE?
MANUAL/AUTO?

thanks everyone in advance
Click to expand...

I agree with the above. Foz XT Auto is fantastic for sand! Troy XT towed his whooping big camper onto Fraser with his XT - witnesses didn't quite believe it and, once unhitched, the XT was a rocket ship!
 
thanks for all the comments guys much appreciated.
sounds like im up for the XT/GT or 3.0/3.6L auto NON dual range.... i just my well be convinced
what are the concerquences with a lift kit? like increase wear with cv's / drive shafts / bearings? ? ? ?

Kevin said:
Foz XT Auto is fantastic for sand! Troy XT towed his whooping big camper onto Fraser with his XT - witnesses didn't quite believe it and, once unhitched, the XT was a rocket ship!
Click to expand...

nice! how do you over come water getting in through your scoop, or is this not an issue?
what mods you got kev?

2jz929 said:
Haven't read thread, but the best possible thing for sand is a powerful auto.

My XT Auto Forester with bullbar and 50mm lift, did 600km on Fraser without getting stuck. Did most tracks, and even some overgrown 'minor' tracks.
Click to expand...

powerfull auto = xt/gt forester - 3/3.6 outback? so the low range is not worth having then? the power of the turbo is enough? what about turbo lag?

AlpineRaven said:
CrossBreed
Cheers
AP
Click to expand...

got a web site link mate?

Rally said:
The dual range, while not ideal is still useful.

With the H6, or any auto, I would consider a dedicated transmission cooler, especially if driven on sand.

The amount of grunt a dual range box will handle is limited. With a gear case about the same size as a single range, things are not that big (strong) inside. If you can live with an auto and the overhangs, then the H6 might be the go, and the 3.6 apparently is appreciably torquier than the 3.0. But if I were getting one again, if it were petrol I would get a poverty pack Forester manual with dual range.
Click to expand...

why is dual range not ideal?
do yo have a web site for this trans cooler?
i understand the physics of 'grunt', im a mechanical engineer and i appreciate the d/r box would struggle handling the power of the japanese turbo :)
why would you go for the poverty pack and whats the pit fall of your current ride?

Barry said:
I have the '05 manual 2.5 Outback.

  • Primary mod required for sand driving is a SubaXtreme sump guard. This is a MUST. You will lose the plastic thing the first time you hit sand.
  • The key with all boxer engines is to keep the revs up. Subarus are no exception. (But I'm guessing you already know that.)
  • The one 'deficiency' of the Outback relative to the Forester is approach and departure angles.
  • A lift, as you propose, and a SubaXtreme front bar should take care of that.
  • Lift kits are more limited for the Outback than the Forrie, but subtle 1" + King Springs gives a total of 2" rear and 1.6" front.
  • Don't know of any after-market rear bars for the 05-09, as SubaXtreme don't make one. However, there is much of the lower part of the rear bumper which could be 'removed' (as has been done to a Forrie by one OBS member) and the towing hitch modded to attach higher.
  • HANSA make a 2" hitch mount 'rear step bar' which could give you a bit of additional rear protection without any loss of departure angle. (Apparently $199 through Autobarn.)
I recon these cars are pretty much optimum for touring / offroad - can even sleep in the car!
Of course, I guess I'm biassed. :lol:
Click to expand...

got a web link for HANSA???
i wont fit sleeping in any wagon im around the 6.5" mark
i got a mate thats a boilly and ive got a 3D modeling program so there shall be many a custom parts :ebiggrin:

AlpineRaven said:
• Any Subaru behind Turbo doesnt come with Dual Range because it wasnt needed,
• EZ30 & EZ36 (3 and 3.6 litre) didnt have manual in their release, several owners have converted to either single range manual or dual range manual and modify the loom as well..
AP
Click to expand...

why wasnt it needed?????
got a rough cost on what the man conversion is worth?

Barry said:
What I meant was that there seemed to be many more suppliers providing kits for the Forester and earlier Outback / Legacy models, L-Series, etc, than there are for the 05-09 Outback.
Yes, it is possible to do a body for the 05-09 Outback however, based on threads here and other sites, I have seen numerous posts regarding lack of timely response to queries, non-postage of kits / delays in construction of kits / kits missing the required adaptors to (e.g. steering column) to complete the lift.
Of course, if you are up for building and fitting a body lift kit yourself then I guess that is a different matter.
Click to expand...

what are these other sites?


frogstar7055 said:
Auto with locking rear differential.
Click to expand...

what are the mods on yous mate?

carljwnc said:
Howdy and :welcome:electropower!!!

Check the "Buying and Selling Subarus" section of the forum, you might find a couple of vehicles that interest you. :)
Click to expand...

thanks for the welcome.
checked :ebiggrin:
gotta sell mine first
 
The dual range is not ideal because the low range could be lower, and should be if you have a modified car that can get into more difficult places. Cannot help with the transmission cooler, but google should help. I like the poverty packs because on my old MY05, they had plastic cladding which did not show scratches like painted parts do. It has most of the gear the upmarket stuff does shy of 6 stackers and alloy wheels, for less $$$. Problem with my current ride is ground clearance- check this link and you will see my problem .https://offroadsubarus.com/showthread.php?t=801&page=47 . I sold the MY05 because I had nowhere to put it, and having 3 cars was a tad excessive.
 
electropower said:
why wasnt it needed?????
got a rough cost on what the man conversion is worth?
Click to expand...
I dunno why it wasnt needed?

Rough cost to convert to dual range manaul.. depends where you get the box from, all the parts etc

From the wrecker I go to down here i can get a box for as low as $80 for dual range, same with L series donor box as well and pull out the 1.59:1 low range and put it in liberty box.
Cheers
AP
 
Unfortunately HANSA don't have a product site, haven't even been able to get a leaflet. I am hoping thesteo sits on top of the hitch, so I can tow as well, not just a plug instead of the hitch. (As it was in a camper trailer mag the latter wouldn't make much sense!)
google: "Hansa Universal rear step bar"
 
Hansa are are an importer- they have all sorts of products from Cibie and Night Stalker lights, through to horns, trailer light fittings; fuses, lamp holders and tools, etc. Auto accessory stores such as Repco, Auto One and Supercheap probably deal with them as their retailers, so try them.
 
i have to disagree with the power on sand theroy. it might be good on firmish sand but when you've got soft deeper sand you really need a steddy pace with high revs. fast spinnig wheels will dig you in. i reckon low range is much better suited for sand
 
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