Potential Vacuum/Air Locker for R160 - only 1 hurdle...

El_Freddo

Forum Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
2,399
Location
Bridgewater, Vic
Car Year
1988, 1990
Car Model
EJ22'd L series; Targa Brumby
Transmission
Locking FT4wd 5spd Manual, 4.111:1 diff w 1.59:1 low range & front OBX LSD ;)
G’day all,

I’ve been keen to get a rear air locker sorted for my L series subi. One way I had been looking at doing it was to fit an R180 diff and find a locker to fit the R180. ARB don’t make a locker according to their current air locker list… So I did some searching and found this mob: Jack McNamara Differential Specialists The link will take you directly to the page that describes the locker – it actually a vacuum locker but an air unit can be created instead.

I’ve emailed Jack and already had a reply. It’s do-able (YAY! Said I) BUT we’d need 500 ordered to make it happen :( The cost of the unit according to Jack is $1000 per unit which I thought was reasonable.

Only real obstacle to this is the 500 units required :( Thought I’d share anyway – or has anyone got $500,000 to blow on the purchase of the units :twisted:

I would like to get a list together of who would want one (or three) but doubt it would be worth the effort as the 500 units seem un-attainable unless the word can be put out there.

Cheers

Bennie
 
i think it would freakin awesome, much better than welding up.
but the problem is i cant fork the $1000 for a while until i get some other things set aside.

another problem is keeping the 500 people, you know when it comes time to buy so many of them are going to backout. so really you need more than 500 pledges to end up with that many come buying time
 
Totally agree with the awesomeness of this - if it would happen... $1000 is relatively cheap for a locker too. It'd be a DIY kit as the centre is replaced and the actuator fitted. So long as the actuator is located in the right place it'll fit any subi with a R160 rear diff and work fine with an AWD box as it'll be open on the black top :D

And yes, as always with a group buy, the 500 is the problem - that's a lotta people to find and organise!

There's also the potential for a front locker too, but again it'll have the same sorta problems to organise and I doubt there would be many who'd want to pull their gearbox apart to fit it... Imagine a fully locked subi! That'd be the ultimate, even if it was just for ****s and giggles :p

I'll keep hunting around until I find someone who'll do a much smaller run...

Cheers

Bennie
 
Totally agree that $1000 is a fair price, but the minimum run is a rip off.

Presumably they have access to CNC equipment, in which case it wouldn't be too difficult to 'read' the standard Subi "innards" and make whatever alterations are needed to produce the kits.

This is the advantage of cnc and other modern production techniques.

Seems to me that the 'minimum run' is just a fancy way of saying no, but leaving the door open for anyone silly enough to stump up $500G! :iconwink::iconwink:
 
I have no idea about the construction process but thought that the 500G was to cover tooling costs and make a bit on the side as well - maybe there's more of an emphisis on making a bit on the side...

I guess if we could find such a place that could do the job we'd just have to come up with a design of our own... That could be a fun process of trial and error!

And if I won it big on tatts I'd probabily be doing the silly thing!

Cheers

Bennie
 
as far as a front diff lock goes, id probably wait till the car is for completely offroading before i went through the trouble.
i have heard of several people using R160 diffs up front underneath the tranny in place of the front diff. i think you need just a little over a 10" lift to do it, but there are several out there.
 
Being a machinist,CNC and manual,I find his minimum order a little high.
I think if he's just producing the chunk (no ring or pinion),50 would probably be enough to recoup costs and make profit.

A well equipped shop would only need to make some jigs and fixtures,would already have almost all the tooling to do the job,I mean come on locking diff's are what they do.

Even at $1200/1400 it would be a deal compared to the LSD's that are out there.

Love to have one but your never gonna get 500 people to buy them all at once.
 
Saw a reference on another thread to a locker being an option on the Toyota Tercel.
Given that the 'turtles' are similar scale to Subi's, would it be feasible to retro fit? (Asked in total ignorance, they may be as different as chalk and cheese. Not even sure if the turtle has IRS or rigid axle!)
 
OK, just had a thought - it happens :biggrin: - would an electric locker be a possibility?
Are they easier to retro?
(Um.. how do they work :iconwink: anyway?!)
 
OK, just had a thought - it happens :biggrin: - would an electric locker be a possibility?
Are they easier to retro?
(Um.. how do they work :iconwink: anyway?!)

Unfortunately this whole subject falls under the "it ain't gonna happen" category.
All the E-locker/Air-locker chunks out there are WAY to big to fit in our little r160 housing.
A lunchbox locker https://www.offroaders.com/tech/Lunchbox-lockers.htm
would be the most likely candidate but still gotta get someone to make them.
Phantom grip is an option, https://www.phantomgrip.com/ I have no direct experience with them but have researched them extensively and people either swear by them or hate them. I think they probably work well at first and then slowly become less effective over time depending on how hard you are with it. (I'm still considering this as an option)
Another option would be to take the front diff from an IFS truck (Toyota,Nissan) with the correct gear ratio and mount it in the rear upside down and put a locker in it,lots of work and fabrication but is doable.

Or just Lincoln lock it (weld it up).
 
The closest lunchbox locker is Powertrax for the Suzuki Samurai.

https://www.powertrax.com/powertrax/suzukilr.pdf

Believe the Zuk has a 6.9" ring gear which is only .61" bigger then the ring gear in a r160. Might just fit in the chunk.
26 spline count and unknown size shaft,not sure what spline count we got or what size shaft.

Without one to take measurements,who knows.
 
If anyone remembers Group A racing, Dick Johnson homolgated a Ford 9" diff, possibly with alloy casing, for the Sierra. It ran IRS and there would be all sorts of trick bits for them. From memory, Ron Harrop in Melbourne designed/engineered/built it and they were then used around the world and even with 700HP they never broke. So, it just goes to show, with enough money anything is possible!
 
ANYTHING is possible with enough $$$$$$$$$$$$

That's not gonna be much help to us enthusiasts though.
 
Looking for lockers etc i came across a link to this site. I'm not quite sure what it is saying, locker and viscous are both mentioned in the translated pages. So that could mean a detroit locker, viscous LSD or some other type of LSD. Maybe someone understands the site better? Could be worth while investigating further.

Babel fish translation:
https://au.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=https%3A%2F%2Fsissk.co.jp%2Fdefulock%2Fdefulock.htm&lp=ja_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

Google translation:
https://translate.google.com/transl...sissk.co.jp/defulock/defulock.htm&sl=ja&tl=en

Original site:
https://sissk.co.jp/defulock/defulock.htm

Price is about $250 Au. So if its a detroit locker then i'm thinking Import Monster or some other importing service could get these in for about $500?
 
Last edited:
"R160 car" Is that what the Outback / Forrester is?
Presumably whichever are R160 could fit these units.

Judging from the translations, it seems that these will only fit the viscous diffs, not the 'open' or 'cable'? diffs. What could a 'cable diff' be - perhaps a mis-translation of hydraulic?

Why would this only fit as a replacement for a viscous diff? Which Subis have viscous diffs?
So who wants to be the 'test bed'?
 
R160 is the Hitachi model # of our rear diff's.

Just by looking that doesn't look like what would go in our housings but who knows.
 
Last edited:
I hate to burst your bubble guys, but it looks to me like a spool. It would just lock the diff permanently, same as welding your current diff.
 
I hate to burst your bubble guys, but it looks to me like a spool. It would just lock the diff permanently, same as welding your current diff.

No bubble anymore, just a dream :ebiggrin: I think a plated 1 way mechanical LSD is the most realistic way to go, plus a 1 way front LSD if you have $$$ to spare. Even these, though readily available and with a much bigger market than a locker are still not cheap.

What about conning Subaruby out of his detroit locker so we can have it copied, and then returned to him of course...
 
What about conning Subaruby out of his detroit locker so we can have it copied, and then returned to him of course...

Why not just get a "big 4wd" locker and have it CNC'd (I think that's what its called), then reduced in size to fit into the R160 diff casing? That'd be the best way to do it.

CNCing is the process of using a computer to map important points on the large 4wd locker until its all mapped out - at least that's what I think its called.

The problem with the auto locker is that it wouldn't be very pleasant to drive with an AWD gearbox in-front of it, unlike Subaruby's setup with a part time 4wd gearbox which doesn't give it any power when cornering on the black top...

Cheers

Bennie
 
Back
Top