Whining & something binding - I think!

Kevin

Kevin

Administrator
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
7,151
Location
Sydney, Oz
Car Year
MY'03
Car Model
Forester
Transmission
A/T
(Also posted on sf.org)

Am I on the right track here? - MY03 XS auto

Possibly front diff problem; suspect its binding and overheating. "Something" is whining.

The car seems to have lost some power and the engine seems fine (leak-down test performed 3rd Dec and is OK). I notice I have to use more throttle to make it perform; especially up twisty hilly roads (Bells Line of Road) and on steep off-road climbs for example. I'm pretty sure it's using more fuel.

When I changed the front diff oil it looked more like engine oil i.e. smelly and dark not nice and clear like the rear diff.

I suspect heat is being transferred to the inner CV joints - there is evidence of CV grease oozing.

After the Simpson Desert crossing mid-year there was evidence of oil escaping from the filler / dip stick hole. On closer inspection I'm sure I spotted tiny flecks of metal stuck to the side of the diff housing - although I didn't notice any when changing the oil. I changed the dip stick O ring just in case and there has not been an overflow since.

The steering feels heavier - I initially thought this may have been due to the strut mods performed a few months ago - but perhaps not.

Tyre wear seems normal. I have not yet tried some tight circles in a flat car park to see what happens.

Also, assuming the diff has to come out what should be done to the rear of the engine while its accessible, i.e. rear output shaft seal - anything else?

Thanks
 
G'day Kevin,

My 03 XS also developed a speed related whine last Thursday 40 - 60 and 80 - 90 but I can't detect it if it is front - center or rear yet.
Mine happened after I got in the car Thurs. morning to go shopping and the low range lever was partially engaged (must have got hooked on Gym towel) and when I tried to reverse out it made a weird whirring noise, straight away I recognised the noise and fully dis-engaged the lever.

That afternoon on the way home from golf at Nambour I noticed the whine kick in and my heart jumped, the power seems no different it's just the noise that annoys me, I went to Brissy today and the noise only came in at the above speeds and I didn't have time to call into my service guy at Boxer Service in Brendale, would have been a good opportunity for him to hear it first hand.

We will keep our fingers and toes crossed mate. :biggrin:
 
if it's binding, you'll know it with a few tight turns on pavement. it will lock up like a 4wd will and crab walk.
 
I did some tight turns in a car park last night and this morning - no noises, no clunks, no lockups.

The whine is there all the time - not very loud and the radio covers it up.

Let's hope yours is not too serious Peter! There are very good reasons why mine would have issues and I'm prepared to "pay to play" but Peter's car has been babied compared to mine!
 
Kevin said:
I did some tight turns in a car park last night and this morning - no noises, no clunks, no lockups.

The whine is there all the time - not very loud and the radio covers it up.

Let's hope yours is not too serious Peter! There are very good reasons why mine would have issues and I'm prepared to "pay to play" but Peter's car has been babied compared to mine!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the funding offer Kev but I'll keep on babying mine thanks all the same.

:iconwink: :iconwink: :poke: :poke:

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
 
does the whining happen straight away or after a drive/when warming up?? i had a whining noise with my manual box and it was the spigot bearing. replaced it and all was good:)
 
Mine happens when hot or cold but today the noise that used to kick in from 40 to 60km/h has now gone up to 50 - 60km/h which I noticed first on the first drive this morning.
 
and mine happens straight away - I'm going to run a stall test on the weekend and see what happpens; it may be the torque converter.
 
I've never heard of a torque converter whining...

Are both of your foresters auto?

A diff whine can occur at certain speeds - my rear diff whines the loudest at 60km/h but is quiet at 100km/h. I'm not concerned as its done the very best part of 400,000km...

As for your subi's you'll need to pint point if its front or rear. Get someone to drive for you while your in the back seat, move around to try and find where the noise is coming from. It could possibly be a wheel bearing... That would be much better than a diff problem!

Cheers

Bennie
 
Mine's auto, Peter has a manual

Mine may not be diff. Last night I determined that the noise only occurs in gear 1,2,3 or D. When I coast in neutral there is no noise - so it's not drive train related.

One theory is that the torque converter is locked up; for those with auto - you know how when cruising at steady speeds the converter locks and your revs drop a little, then when the engine has to work you "feel" the converter unlock. The effect of this lock-up would be the same as if the car is always is a slightly higher gear. Hence the feeling that I've lost some power.
 
Kevin said:
One theory is that the torque converter is locked up.
Click to expand...

You'd then have fixed a revs/speed relationship in each gear and it would stall when you're stopped and in-gear.

The lockup function is controlled electronically is believe. Or do you mean that the torque convertor itself might be seized?
 
^ correct, so here's an updated definition:

"Something" is whining and the car seems to have lost some power. The whining sounds like it's coming from the centre front of the car. The noise only occurs in gear 1,2,3 or D. When I coast in neutral there is no noise.


The engine seems fine (leak-down test performed 3rd Dec and is OK) although it is using a fair amount of oil which could be attributed to the spark tube seal leak on cylinder #1 burning it off (but .5 litre to the Blue Mtns and back seems excessive). I notice I have to use more throttle to make it perform; especially up Bells Line of Road and on steep off-road climbs for example. I'm pretty sure it's using more fuel. The auto is holding lower gears longer as if under some load.

Usually when cruising at steady speeds (100 K/hr) the torque converter locks and the revs drop a little. When the engine has to work again, say approaching a hill, you can feel the converter unlock before it starts changes to lower gears. This locking / unlocking did not occur when I took the car for a test run along the M7. A speed of 100k was achieved and stayed at a steady 2500 RPM.

The effect of this lock-up would be the same as if the car is always is a slightly taller gear. Stall tests on the weekend proved OK as all tests were within tolerance, i.e. 2100-2600 RPM.

There was some evidence of CV grease oozing from LHS; it dripped onto driveway next to the A/C drain drips after a long run 2 weekends ago.

After the Simpson Desert crossing mid-year there was evidence of oil escaping from the front transfer case filler / dip stick hole (diff over-heating I guess). I changed the dip stick O ring just in case and there has not been an overflow since; but it hasn't had to work as hard either. When I changed the front diff oil after the desert crossing it looked more like engine oil i.e. smelly and dark not nice and clear like the rear diff.

Front tyre wear seems normal. Tight turns on level ground are OK.
 
My bet would be on the automatic transmission itself, given that the only time you don't get the noise is in N, when the majority of the transmission is unloaded or disengaged. Any dirt, muck or discolouration in the AT fluid? I've never played with one of the electronically controlled jobbies, but dirt or blockages in the galleries of the old Tri-matics used to play havoc with the shift points.

Jonbob
 
^ yes, I'm begining to get that impression.

The local NRMA workshop went over it and report that the diff is fine. They've swapped out all the oils and have put 20-50 in the engine to see if it quietens it downs (it does) and lessens consumption (too early to tell)

* NRMA = National Roads and Motorists Association

I'll change the thread title to reflect the latest
 
You lets see. Engine loosing power. CV joints oozing lubricant.

I think you are making the wrong assumptions here. Get yourself a vacum gauge and leanr how to read it. I think you may have a partially clogged cat.

https://www.classictruckshop.com/clubs/earlyburbs/projects/vac/uum.htm

It is not a Torque converter issue. It is not a diff issue. I was wondering about torque bind (car is almost impossible to make a tight circle with no gas applied).

What is left is very hot exhuast pipes causing the lube to leak out of the cv joints. Clogged cat is making the engine work harder and heating up the pipes.


nipper
 
That is potentially a great diagnosis; thanks - I was wondering about the cat because I experienced similar symptoms when the O2 sensor went crook. I've read elsewhere that cats are expensive to replace :-(
 
^ yes, that's where I read it - & welcome BTW
 
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