Unbelievable! Zero tolerance speed limit in NZ

Just don't overtake then.

The problem is the guy doing 95 where an overtake is possible/permissible may be doing 65 around bends and up hills.

When I drive roads like the Great Ocean Road I pull over when I reach other cars and look out at the view. Then there's a mad dash to get back in the car before the next piece of traffic passes and enjoy the clear section of road I have created.
 
VicRoads told me to " ... just drive anyway, as you have already served your period of suspension ... ".
You can just see the chances of successfully arguing THAT in court ...
Somewhere between nil and FA ... :( :puke:.

And you can just envisage that Vic Roads person confirming it in writing too. :madred:
 
1 kmh over is pretty ridicuilous, so is the Victorian tolerance of 2/3 kmh. You're right, it means you're spending so much time staring at the speedo you simply cant concentrate properly on the surrounding traffic.

This focus on speeding fines actually make the roads more dangerous!

What really gets my goat is when you have been waiting to overtake a very slow car on a dual laned road with double solid lines, then just as you get to the overtaking lane he suddenly speeds up to 100! :madred::yell::furious:
 
Yeah, Peter

And you can just envisage that Vic Roads person confirming it in writing too. :madred:

Not a chance in Hades, mate.

Just like trying to get an incident number out of some of the people at Telstra ... AND they look positively professional compared with the other Telcos ...

If we were to apply the same level of pedantic expectation to our political masters and their minions (police, public servants, etc ... ) that they all routinely apply to us, they would ALL be in jail.

They ALL seem to have forgotten about the three great doctrines that underlie all of our social and communal relationships:

The Doctrine of the Rule of Law;

The Doctrine of Legitimate Expectation;

The Doctrine of Natural Justice.

None of these things can be legislated as they exist outside the framework laws and of government. They pre-date the existence of such things, and form the actual and philosophical basis of instruments such as the Constitution, courts, governments and the bureaucracy (including the police and their sub-contractors ... ).
 
1 kmh over is pretty ridicuilous, so is the Victorian tolerance of 2/3 kmh. You're right, it means you're spending so much time staring at the speedo you simply cant concentrate properly on the surrounding traffic.

I hear this rubbish all the time. It's crap. What's wrong with you that you can't keep a consistent speed and only having to glance at the speedo once every minute or so? The speedo is only one of the many things that you should be checking regularly if you are being an involved, observant driver anyway. And if the limit is 100 what's wrong with travelling at 99 or 98? You don't have to always be sitting on the exact limit. The speed limit is the speed limit. Why pretend that 100 really means 103 so let's all sit on 105 because near enough is good enough?
 
And if the limit is 100 what's wrong with travelling at 99 or 98? You don't have to always be sitting on the exact limit. The speed limit is the speed limit. Why pretend that 100 really means 103 so let's all sit on 105 because near enough is good enough?

If you sit at 98 its all too easy to creep up only 5kmh on a downhill, which at 103kmh will get you a nice big fat fine. Thats not really the issue though as at this speed you'd either be on a country road or freeway/highway so cruise control would be set.

The issue is driving around the burbs at 58kmh, knowing that there is a multitude of cops/cameras waiting to get you the moment you creep up that 5kmh, which as we all know is too easy to do.

The result is we are all being trained to obsess about speed, esp at traffic lights where the majority of the cameras are, right at the very time we should be concentrating the most on whats outside the car, not a guage inside
 
The real downside is perhaps not quite as obvious. It is that we come to see both the government and the police as our enemies, and their blatant disregard for the Doctrine of the Rule of Law, and the abomination of the legislative provisions calls both LAW and laws into disrepute, along with the government and the police. This has serious long-term ramifications for the cohesion and stability of our entire community.

I don't agree with this.

This has got to be one of the most respecting countries towards the rule of law in the world. Governments are kept in check and every citizen has the right to express their opinion towards law enforcement and traffic control measures.

Let me tell you, not a lot of people die on the road here. This is vastly due to what some people here refer to as "revenue raising" activities. You know what? If I could pay an extra $200 a year to a government I don't agree with so no one in my family dies in a traffic accident, guess what? I would pay it gladly!!!

Having had close mates suffer the consequences of speeding drivers on the roads - the ones only doing 5-10% more than the speed limit, I say keep the cameras up and fine everyone doing the wrong thing!

If you don't want to help the government's revenue, you have 2 choices: drive within the limit, or don't drive. And by doing so, you'll keep yourself and everyone around you safe!

Pedro.
 
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Gidday Pedro

I agree with everything you have written - except your first sentence ...

It is an inappropriate forum to discuss the many and varied ways that all levels of government - Federal, State and Local - pervert and distort the law to their own ends. It is this that calls the Rule of Law into disrepute.

The fact that state and territory governments completely ignore the instructions of the manufacturers in their use of these devices; the lack of transparency; the failure to provide proper evidence of compliance checks of these devices; the failure to tender disputable evidence in courts; the legislating out of existence of any defence to the alleged offences - these things speak for themselves ... I could go on, and on, and on, but will not.

The same ends could be obtained by honest and honourable means, but governments around this country have chosen not to do this, because it might cost them a few dollars in court when people dispute the fines handing out on the basis of the "evidence" of these devices.

People, myself included, do not tend to dispute these things out of a perverse sense of bloody mindedness. They dispute them because they believe them to be wrong, or unjust.

One has only to look at the final outcomes of the Western Ring Road and the Karen St Nepean Highway debacles to realise that sometimes governments and their servants get things badly wrong, and to realise the dangers of legislating away defences to these charges. The government of the day had to retrospectively refund hundreds of millions of dollars in fines that they had previously demanded payment for, and received, when the courts decided that the "evidence" and compliance of the devices in question was unreliable at best and completely wrong at worst.

It is this behaviour on the part of governments to which I so strongly object, not the setting and enforcement of sensible laws in an honest and responsible manner.
 
Ratbag, you may need to do a tour of Libya, or Afghanistan, Venezuela, or my native Brazil to see what an inappropriate government looks like and how much the Australian government (Labor or Liberal) is pretty good with the rule of law. (I migrated for a reason...)

On the other hand, it's people like you that keep pushing the system to improve and be more just and fair. So keep up the good work!

Back to the cameras and tolerance around them, I just returned from a leisurely bike ride around Melbourne and witnessed some pretty average driving. There was one guy that simply drove past me and went straight through a red light! On St Kilda Road! And the best part? The "revenue raising" cameras grabbed a nice shot of the car! I couldn't help but smile.

Now, all jokes aside, a kid could've been crossing the road at the time! There were kids everywhere today!! I hope the fine this guy gets will be the one that throughs him over the points limit and his license is suspended for a while, because he does not belong on the road!

I'm a big supporter of cameras, radars, and the like. Sure, sometimes they are used to get the distracted driver (not that any of us drive in a distracted manner). But how can you be against something that saves lives?!? Can the system and the devices be improved? SURE! And they should! But until then, let the boys in blue do their job!

Pedro.
 
^ Haha. I've driven in Athens in the late 1960s, and that was bad enough!!

As for the other, thanks. I agree with Edmund Burke: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."; and Thomas Jefferson: "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance" - he was talking about vigilance regarding one's own duly elected government ...

If one is given the ability, knowledge and determination to achieve any kind of amelioration of harsh elements in our systems of government, one is derelict in one's duty not to exercise such talents as one has been given by birth, life and education.

I try to always live up to that, not so much on my own behalf, but because it might just make the mongrel/s perpetrating the injustice pause when they are thinking about trying it on with someone who appears to be essentially defenceless ...

In a letter to my state MP over 2 years ago, I correctly predicted that they would lose office over the TAFE funding cuts. I put this very plainly and strongly. It now appears to have been a major contributing factor ...

The conclusion of my 5 page letter read in part:

"Taken together, with no other considerations at all, these two issues alone can and will lose this government the next election ... "

Of course, that result is now history.

In one of my previous posts, I stated that the inaccuracy of car speedometers that is allowed under the ADRs (or whatever) is such that this factor alone argues for a far more lenient approach than is currently the case.

Considering that many accidents occur as a result of inattention, and that inattention can be (often is) a result of carefully and continually checking one's speed, instead of avoiding running over the child on the road ...

Sorry that this is a bit disjointed. I am very tired, and my brain is not working very well ATM.
 
Pezimm I agree with you about red light cameras, they have dramatically reduced the incidence of running red lights which makes the roads safer for everyone. It also makes drivers concentrate harder on the lights & whats outside the car as they approach intersections.

However, I stand by my statement that the proliferation of speed cameras makes the roads less safe by diverting attention away from the road to the speedo.

There is a reason many countries are removing speed cameras.

What should be done is more cops out on the road...a higher police presence! But this is unlikely as its a double edged sword. Less revenue from speeding fines plus higher cost of patrols.

Exactly the same for school zones. If they REALLY wanted to makes schools zones safer, every single school in the state would have flashing signs to let drivers know the lower limit applies. This wont happen for the same reason as above, less revenue from fines & cost of implementation.

Interesting to note that many schools see the flashing signs as so important to their students safety they fund their own signs! What does that say about our government.

Btw, I'm not disagreeing with you about ours being relatively good. There is still a lot of systemic corruption, the fact that ours keeps awarding itself pay rises when our PM earns more than the President of the USA or Russia or China speaks volumes :madred::yell::furious:
 
^ Red light cameras have their serious failings. More in the way they are set up, and the general synchronisation of the traffic lights at a given intersection, but there are a number of other problems as well.

Let's look at the set up of the traffic lights generally first.

I will use Nepean Highway as an example because: 1) I have been a regular user of it for over 30 years; 2) It is an 80 kmh road with many intersections with 60 kmh cross roads; 3) It is a main arterial road, carrying a very large number of cars 24/7.

The government authorities have managed to synchronise the lights for significant distances of this road between Elsternwick Junction and Mentone approximately twice in this 30+ years (once for about 6-12 months in the late 1980s, IIRC; and for about the last 12 months or so). This represents a scandalous neglect of duty IMNSHO. In Brisbane in my far-distant youth, the traffic lights in Ann St were synchronised to 28 mph, and if one travelled at this speed, one could travel from North Quay to Fortitude Valley through the city CBD without stopping. Of course, it didn't take us young hooligans long to work out that if they were synchronised at 28 mph, they were also synchronised at 56 mph ... :lildevil:. If it was possible to do this in Brisbane then, surely we can manage it now, some 50 years later! Traffic light synchronisation means that cars and heavy vehicles do not have to stop from, and re-accelerate to, high speeds regularly.

To stop from, and re-accelerate to, 80 kmh costs about $1 for an 'average' car. It is around $4 for a 5 tonne truck, and much more than this for a heavy truck (big semi-trailer, B-Double, etc). The communal cost of this stop/start regime on just the Nepean Highway is enormous. The indirect and externalised costs (pollution, maintenance, repairs) adds greatly to these direct costs.

When one has turns from an 80 kmh road into a 60 kmh road, one has to make proper allowance for the change in speed, and also for the rate of approach to the turn lights in slip lanes. The relevant intersections of cross-roads with the Nepean Highway make very little, if any allowance for these factors. The light sequences also vary from intersection to intersection, further confusing drivers travelling at high speed. This is stupid, inexcusable and disastrous in practice.

Further, when one is turning, there is a point at which one has to remove focus from the light and concentrate on the turn - vehicle in front? pedestrian crossing against the lights? on-coming traffic that is not going to stop? etc, etc. The light subtends a tiny angle at one's eyes, and is in one's peripheral vision as well. The Monash University Study at p.45 found that a survey including rally drivers only had around a cumulative 40% of drivers with a reaction time of 1.0s or less to level crossing lights at night. This dropped to around 20% to the same stimulus during daylight. This is directly analogous to reaction to traffic signals when those signals are directly in front of the driver, but not to turn signals which are not.

The mean reaction time was 1.16s with a std, dev. of 0.35s (night), and 1.77s, s.d. 0.84s (day). This argues strongly against applying a 0.5s rule to red light cameras, particularly on high speed roads (i.e. 80 kmh and above); and more particularly to turn signals off those roads onto suburban streets with a speed limit of 60 kmh.

Other government advertising (TAC, various police forces, etc) advertise that average reaction time is between 1.5s and 2s. Why then is there a relatively uniform 0.5s time applied to red light cameras? More revenue is one possible explanation ...

If the traffic light sequence has to be modified to accommodate longer periods between one direction light going to red and another direction going to green to ensure safety, so be it. Synchronising the through lights properly would make up for the small inconvenience of the latter, IMNSHO.

Just a few thoughts, FWIW ...
 
Cruise is good, but I know in my Foz the speed can vary by as much as 10kph easily, with it set. The cable-style cruise control definitely isn't as precise as more modern systems with electronic throttles.
 
^ My SG is fly by wire, and it's pretty accurate: +/- about 2 kmh dependent on uphill or down dale.

Our SH is pretty deadly accurate: +/- 1 kmh under all conditions.
 
Despite all the opinions about driving styles here, is there anyone who doesn't think these tight limits are a money grab?
 
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