Using recovery gear

Yes its larger as have extra hole in front but they seems like made from same steel thickness and all and its verys strong place to be as recovery points. Would be nice to have same on both sides. Some say forester 1 havr similar style those plates and they fit shackles. Or just makr those holes round to fit shackle.
And we used there some kinetic ropes 10 ,12m long and they where amazing to pull others out or me. Compare to normal recovery straps ropes where so much better and softer on cars.
 
Interesting discussion guys.

I was, and still am very concerned about using snatch recoveries on my SH Forester because it doesn't have rated recovery points. On the rear I am happy to use the tow hitch receiver with a rated pin but at the front, it's a different story. The tie down loops are just that and the tow ring that screws into the front bumper is for towing. Even though the driver's handbook uses the term 'recovery" I was not convinced so I wrote to Subaru and asked them exactly how these points should be used.

Subaru replied saying that all three points are suitable for recovery from mud and sand using towing as a recovery method. They do not, under any circumstances, recommend that a snatch recovery be attempted using these attachments. I have purchased a distribution hitch to allow both tie-down hooks to be used in an emergency but I would try everything else first.

I have raised this as an issue with SubaXtreme and suggested to them that a modified method of attaching a bull bar could incorporate proper recovery hooks. The said they would be willing to discuss it but I have not taken that step at this point.
 
Why i didint thought of that. To take another pasenger side point and put it on driver side so they both would have same holes .then they both can take shackle . maybe even make it stronger. Its very nice that we still have those bolted points not welded.
 
So kinetic / snatch rope is better then snatch strap yes?
Local guys here prefer ropes and some large ones 25mm even. But they take space like half trunk haha.
 
scalman said:
Why i didint thought of that. To take another pasenger side point and put it on driver side so they both would have same holes .then they both can take shackle . maybe even make it stronger. Its very nice that we still have those bolted points not welded.
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A good weld is stronger than a bolt in my opinion. Not that I can weld any good but.
 
Im not good welder as well , just learning and best thing to learn is by doing mistakes and then fixing them.
Bolt and weld would be best. But i doubt those point need that. If rope is too strong then something else will want to brake if you wont stop recover. Sometimes you just need to use good old shovel and jack for hour or so to recover yourself.
 
Ben Up North said:
A good weld is stronger than a bolt in my opinion. Not that I can weld any good but.
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.. the advantage with bolt-on, is if you do over-stress and bend the recovery point, you can just bolt a new one on.

A weld -- you're more likely to damage the frame.
 
Ben Up North said:
A good weld is stronger than a bolt in my opinion. Not that I can weld any good but.
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Sorry to disagree but welding has its problems. Every weld draws metal in from both sides resulting in weakening of the structure immediately next to the weld on both sides. You will find that most weld failures occur not on the weld, but on the metal next to the weld.

Bolts or rivets are inherently stronger provided the bolt has an appropriate tensile strength and is an appropriate size. Orientation to the force expected to be placed on them is also important.

Aluminum structures can be significantly stronger if joints are glued (with epoxy) and riveted than they would be if welded.


Welding is used in manufacturing (in the most part) because it is cheaper and quicker.
 
I would not trust just weld so much as bolt or 2,3 better.
Good that we still have those front recovery points on bolts.
 
Beachworm said:
You will find that most weld failures occur not on the weld, but on the metal next to the weld.
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True.
Aluminum structures can be significantly stronger if joints are glued (with epoxy) and riveted than they would be if welded.
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Well there's something I didn't know.
 
Well old planes used that for reason
vintage-steel-propeller-plane-polished-260nw-547180702.jpg

Though when i tried that with new sheet on old rusted one it didint worked.. Haha rust no holds nothing
 
True, but planes are not put together with epoxy or any other adhesive in a structural capacity (unless they are constructed of composites such as carbon fibre). Rivets are used to fix the skin of a plane to the frame when aluminium is used because aluminium is far more difficult to weld than steel. Regardless of the metal concerned, where strength and reliability is important, the quality control processes associated with welding take too much time and cost too much while at the same time, still not providing sufficient guarantee of a perfect join in an industry where safety is of prime importance. Putting a car together is a far less demanding process.
 
I would like to get that blue that they put in new cars . could be like liquid nails or liquid bolts or use both.
Recovery points must be on bolts same trailer hitch. But frame that those plates bolt on can be welded sure.
I want to make myself trailer hitch and same make it removable and as recovery point. Saw some great ideas in net , now they procces in my head
 
Beachworm said:
Interesting discussion guys.

I was, and still am very concerned about using snatch recoveries on my SH Forester because it doesn't have rated recovery points. On the rear I am happy to use the tow hitch receiver with a rated pin but at the front, it's a different story. The tie down loops are just that and the tow ring that screws into the front bumper is for towing. Even though the driver's handbook uses the term 'recovery" I was not convinced so I wrote to Subaru and asked them exactly how these points should be used.
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Good work Beachworm, glad someone decided to find out once & for all.

I'm a newbie to this site & haven't bought my chosen Forester SH yet. Currently have a troopy & some experience in recovery so be nice to me.

Now have I misread this below or am I just crazy??

Beachworm said:
Subaru replied saying that all three points are suitable for recovery from mud and sand using towing as a recovery method. They do not, under any circumstances, recommend that a snatch recovery be attempted using these attachments.
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Isn't this is totally contradictory & confusing for the inexperienced? I guess what they mean is "all three points are suitable for TOWING out of 1" deep mud or hard sand." There is no delineation between being "stuck in deep mud/sand" & being towed along in shallow mud/sand.

I guess the official description of "recovery" in the traditional motor industry, which would date back from since the Model T, is to be towed along a dirt/bitumen road & maybe pulled out of a ditch or towed along a small amount of mud/sand near a road. Eg. you drove the car off the road accidentally. It doesn't mean the more recent trend of popular 4WDing where one may be neck deep in quicksand. Eg. you intentionally drove into a mud hole to test your vehicles prowess, in soft sand miles from a road or stuck behind a small boulder in a river crossing.

Recovery in the "traditional on road motor industry" means being in the situation in the first part of the above paragraph not the second part.

Recovery in the "4WD/AWD motor industry" means a completely different thing.

You could be stuck in a mud hole with you wheels jammed behind a reverse sloping rock & "recovery" means snapping your 5000lb snatch strap & then thinking "why did that break"? Is it too old/worn or is there something else unforeseen jamming my car in? Should I try to recover it backwards? Ok, hopefully you are with several mates/cars & they have more snatch straps. You really want to be snapping your strap rather than your vehicle.

I'm learning a lot from this website. I did a 4W Driving & Recovery course with the Toyota Landcruiser Club & there was no real concern with bending your frame etc. I guess the straps would snap first.[/QUOTE]

Beachworm said:
I have purchased a distribution hitch to allow both tie-down hooks to be used in an emergency but I would try everything else first.
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What do you mean by "try everything first?" What other options are there apart from digging/Maxtrax?

I had a look at the tow points on a SH & they are tucked quite high up in the front. It would cause damage to the bumper just towing let alone a snatch recovery. Can one jam a couple of 4x2 timber blocks up above a tightened equaliser strap? Or how else do you avoid damage?

So are these towing hooks not bolted/welded onto the chassis like where you would attack a bull bar? Guess I'll find out when I buy it.

What about the screwing towing eyebolt? Isn't that screwed into a solid part of the chassis? Is there on on either side or just on the drivers side light on the XV?
 
Hello ignas,

Your confusion and consternation is well warranted though not through any fault of Subaru Australia.

The fact is that Subaru vehicles have never been designed or intended for off-road use in the manner that vehicles such as Toyota Land Cruisers have. Lacking a full chassis, the structural integrity of Subarus is compromised when they are used for negotiating rough or difficult terrain or when extrication from bogging or such like is required. I would classify them as "light off-roaders". Subaru has never claimed otherwise.

Some people, a number of them posting on this forum like to push their Subarus to and beyond the limit of what they were intended for. That is fine when they are prepared to take the risk of damage into account and live with it. Unsurprisingly, you will notice that these members usually drive older model vehicles that you can buy for next to nothing and they do their own modifications in the back shed. There are a few exceptions where some have put considerable effort into well-though-out mods but you will find that these are ones that usually tread more carefully.

Recovery itself is not the issue. It is the manner of recovery that is of concern. As you mentioned, recovery can extend from towing a vehicle on flat, solid ground when it has run out of fuel to a full-on heave-ho from a friendly Land Cruiser driver. A Subaru is likely to be seriously damaged by the latter no matter how the snatch strap is attached.

Recovery from the rear using a hitch receiver and a gentle, sympathetic snatch should always be the first option. If a rear recovery is not possible all other methods should be attempted to get the vehicle out frontwards (such as recovery tracks, jacking and packing, corduroy, winching etc.) If these are unsuccessful or not possible, it is my opinion that attaching a distribution hitch to both front tie-down-hooks (which are welded to the sub-frame in the SH) connected to a snatch strap is the least likely method to damage the structure of the vehicle when winching or snatching is necessary.

Though I have never had to resort to this method, I believe you are right in assuming that this would have some ill effect on the lower, plastic section of the front bar. It is possible that any deformation would be temporary and the bar would resume its shape after the event.

I'm glad to see someone considering an SH for off-roading. I think you will find that in its standard form it will be more capable than any previous model and a few, well-chosen and simple modifications can make it less likely to get stuck too.

Good luck with it. I'll be interested to hear and see what you get up to.
 
Now that i have proper recovery points for hi lift jack and for shackles to recover someone or be recovered if needed im very happy how it turned out and how it looks

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Now i just need some kinetic rope /strap and proper air compressor. Think i will use kinetic rope as we could get ones loval made much cheaper then straps. Yes they takes more space but in all they better then straps .
 
Good job! I like those hi-lift jack points. Sadly, where I live, certification will be needed, not to mention insurance issues.
 
Well for rear its very similar to how trailer hitch looks like. Just its have closed tubes. So if you just open ends of those tubes you could put hi lift jack there. Hmm is that illegal too? Cut holes in bumper but cover them when dont use. I could do covers in mine and noone would even know that i have those just i no need that..well for now until mot test.
 
It is not if it is certified by an authorised engineer. Now after the certification, there is also the insurance issue. Most insurance companies here won't cover major modifications and cutting a hole in the bumper is major enough for them. The cover thing is a good idea, though.
 
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