2008 SH Forester X head gaskets...

[SubyForester]

Lots of questions...
Looks like my recently acquired 2008 forester x auto (MY09) has head gasket leaks. I knew I had to do the timing belt and front control arm bushes but what a pain... wanted to spend money on suspension and lift kits. Ah well. I’m hoping to monitor the leaks and keep driving it for a bit until I get all the parts together. Budgeting up to $1k for bits/head servicing. Is this realistic? Can anyone tell me if it’s possible to change the HGs without pulling the motor out? Have seen it done engine in with an older outback. Or is it just easier to pull the motor to do it?
Anything missing from this parts list? Anything that’s extravagant?
- Full engine gasket set (with MLS head gaskets - recommended brand?)
- copper head sealant stuff - recommended or not?
- gates/dayco/aisin timing belt/tensioners/water pump kit and thermostat
- set of head bolts
- coolant
- oil and filter
- spark plugs
- assembly lube - reassembling the heads.
- Perth (Australia) based machining shop for heads - any recommendations?
- cleaning materials - mineral turps, brake cleaner, scraper.
- are any special tools required? I have an engine hoist, car ramps, jack, axle stands, standard metric and torx sockets, torque wrench, an angle gauge for the head bolts and will get a cam pulley holder tool and maybe an engine stand.

 

[SubyForester]

In case someone needs this info in the future:
I’ve been quoted AU$3400 ish to do the work as listed above - quote seems reasonable given parts/work involved. Half the cost is labour. I can save a bit on some parts so I’ll be doing it myself.

 

[ABFoz]

Hi mate, some people do Subaru head gaskets while in the vehicle but those are extremely crude ways. It's best to pull the engine out and if you know a machine shop that has done it before, you can bring the heads to them and they will know what to do.

Once the engine is out, you can replace other seals as well like the valve cover gasket, rear main seal, oil exchange plate, etc.

So, this is a 100% HG leak where oil is mixed with the coolant? Cheers.

 

[Ratbag]

Geez, mate, that's nearly as good a price as in Sydney ($2,200, all included). It appears to cost around $5,000 here in Melbourne. Most 'progressive', highest taxed state in Australia since before I was born ...

 

[SubyForester]

Thanks Abfoz, I’ve given the in-car repair idea away... I’ve got to get under there and clean the joins and then monitor to see what leaks - I maybe overreacting a bit but I don’t want to let it go too far. Plus I want to use the car for a trip in April. Passenger side head is leaking oil mainly (back of heads) but I think I can see signs of coolant weeps as well. Oil and coolant are good with no signs of mixing. Car drives ok with no overheating. What’s an oil exchange plate?

Hi mate, some people do Subaru head gaskets while in the vehicle but those are extremely crude ways. It's best to pull the engine out and if you know a machine shop that has done it before, you can bring the heads to them and they will know what to do.

Once the engine is out, you can replace other seals as well like the valve cover gasket, rear main seal, oil exchange plate, etc.

So, this is a 100% HG leak where oil is mixed with the coolant? Cheers.

 

[SubyForester]

Geez, mate, that's nearly as good a price as in Sydney ($2,200, all included). It appears to cost around $5,000 here in Melbourne. Most 'progressive', highest taxed state in Australia since before I was born ...

Yeah, the costs are quite variable then! Presumably it’s the labour rate with parts prices being (hopefully) constant. Either way I’ll be doing it myself given the cost.

 

[ABFoz]

What’s an oil exchange plate?

It's actually called oil separator plate. We call it kidney plate here, colloquially.


They usually leak because of the rubber shrinking. Some people use a genuine replacement. Some people use just a sealant. I would just use genuine as they update their sealant material once in a while. Cheers.

 

[SubyForester]

It's actually called oil separator plate. We call it kidney plate here, colloquially.
View attachment 3911

They usually leak because of the rubber shrinking. Some people use a genuine replacement. Some people use just a sealant. I would just use genuine as they update their sealant material once in a while. Cheers.

Thanks good to know, I’ll add it to the list. These motors have plenty of places to leak oil

 

[SubyForester]

Some pics of the accessible parts of the HGs. I’ve cleaned along the joins as best I can and will monitor...

 

[jf1sf5]

Is the Forester X a EJ20 or a EJ25 ?

 

[Ben Up North]

EJ25 in Australia

 

[El_Freddo]

Thanks good to know, I’ll add it to the list. These motors have plenty of places to leak oil

You obviously haven’t seen an EA82... cam boxes *cough*.

Get your parts from partsouq.com - all genuine. I’ve done it three times or more now and have not had an issue.

Parts all up including freight, new water pump and cam belt tensioner came in at $1200AU. Then on top of that is all the coolant, sealants, oils etc. I also got 5 oil filters in that order (broken into two orders to avoid GST upon arrival to Oz) for $7US each! Steal!!

If your engine has AVCS or whatever it’s called, ensure you clean the filters in the oil lines to this system. I’ve read a lot on the USMB, it always comes up.

Also remove the cam retainer plate - pain in the arse but it’s also a point for oil weeping if the sealant is still factory - which I bet it is. You should release the tension on the cam retainer bolts before you torque the head down, so you might as well pull those painful torq and Allen key headed bolts out and do the job properly.

Engine stand definitely required! Do the oil separator plate reseal either before it goes on the stand or after it comes off. Also do the rear main seal and reseal the gudgeon pin access hole cover. I used the permetex high torque grey sealant (used it for the cam retainer plate sealant too).

The oil separator plate should be metal on your engine. They did plastic units on the Gen2 EJ22 and probably EJ20 too. These would end up warping and leaking. Just use the sealant on the cleaned and prepped mating surfaces. Remember less is more with this sealant - too much and you’ll put it into the engine where you don’t want it.

If you can find a small tube of three bond definitely go that way. I found a workshop sized tube for a caulking gun for $70 from memory - too much would’ve been wasted for my use.

Good chance to upgrade the oil pump. I’m 99% sure it’s one of the smaller units at 8 or 9mm rotor thickness. Larger units can be found online or from older EJs. Probably not totally necessary but good for preventing oil starvation.

Good time to pop the sump off, clean it out and reseal it. Also inspect the oil pickup tube for signs of cracking. I don’t know if this is an issue in Oz or not, but again it’s an issue I read about on the USMB often - namely from “GD” who runs a private Subaru workshop. Very knowledgeable!

I always use methylated spirits to clean off sealing surfaces with a clean rag. It doesn’t leave any residue and you’ll know if you need to wipe it down a second time.

Pull down time is quick in general. Assembly is slow. Clean, clean, clean! Do as much before disassembly to help save some time for later.

Oil drain pans/catch pans. Have a couple on hand. Drain the oil out and as much coolant as possible. Use a pan under the engine on the stand to catch any remaining fluids that WILL come out as you work on the engine. Saves a mess on the floor!

One special tool for the oil separator plate and gudgeon pin access plate is an impact screw driver. Makes getting those Phillips headed bolts out. They’re a mongrel otherwise. If you remove the cam retainer plate you’ll need a special torx tool. I can’t remember the exact unit you want, but regular torx tools don’t work because the tips are rounded off. Use these and you’ll either break the tool or round off the bolt head. Ask me how I know... welding to the bolt was involved in getting it out!

Get a new cam wheel for the RHS - it’s plastic! If this lets go it’s bye bye valves. The metal one on the LHS will be fine.

Good time to update ALL the coolant hoses. That said I failed to think about this on the last two builds until after the engine is back in...

DIY is certainly a money saver - but time wise it can get out of hand, especially if you’ve got a young family or kids that are curious as to what you’re doing

With that said about kids and time, I’d still prefer to DIY it as I know what I’m getting. I can’t bring myself to trust a mechanic - never have and loathe the day I have to!

Cheers

Bennie

 

[El_Freddo]

PS - no HG sealant required.

 

[SubyForester]

Thanks El_Freddo, that's really useful - I'll look at the repair manual I have and figure out what tools are required. I think "torx plus" sockets are required...

Reuse the head bolts or new is the other question...

 

[ABFoz]

Thanks El_Freddo, that's really useful - I'll look at the repair manual I have and figure out what tools are required. I think "torx plus" sockets are required...

Reuse the head bolts or new is the other question...

New genuine bolts always. The tensile strength of the old ones is already compromised once they contract after removing them from the head-block system. Cheers.

 

[El_Freddo]

New genuine bolts always. The tensile strength of the old ones is already compromised once they contract after removing them from the head-block system. Cheers.

Not true. There’s a service bulletin out that says you don’t need to use new headbolts every HG swap.

Two exceptions to this: if the bolt(s) are rusty or the engine was overheated.

I’ve reused head bolts twice with success/without issue. My EJ22 is still on its original head bolts but it’s second set of HGs, all going well.

Another thing to note - there are two types of head bolts on the EJ251/253. The middle bolts are different to the outer bolts (marked by the head being painted). Torque sequence is slightly different for these centre bolts as by the FSM.

Last set of heads I had shaved coat $188 including GST.

Cheers

Bennie

 

[ABFoz]

Not true. There’s a service bulletin out that says you don’t need to use new headbolts every HG swap.

Two exceptions to this: if the bolt(s) are rusty or the engine was overheated.

I just remembered Subaru does not use torque-to-yield bolts which is why they may be able to be reused. With the non-Subarus I had worked on in a shop I used to work for, the vehicles almost always had torque-to-yield ones and we always had to replace them with new genuine ones.

Anyway, for me, it's more of a peace of mind, especially with a 2nd-hand vehicle, to replace with new head bolts. In the case of @SubyForester, he isn't sure if, at any point in time before his ownership, the car was overheated. A new set of bolts can give him some peace of mind. Cheers.