Dual-Range Flywheel/Clutch Issue?

Blue Fox

Blue Fox

Forum Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
198
Location
Durango, Colorado
Car Year
2005
Car Model
Forester XT - 2" Lift
Transmission
5MT Dual-Range
Hello everyone,

I have completed the SF Dual-Range into my 2005 Forester XT. The transmission is working well, however I have an issue with what I believe is clutch engagement/disengagement, but perhaps something else?

What I have:

SF 1.44 Dual-Range
N/A US Forester Flywheel from 2005 Forester
N/A US Forester Exedy Stock Clutch

The Issue:

Driving the car needs great care to slowly release the clutch or it will clunk rather loudly (and you'll feel it). If you get under the car and someone slowly lets out the clutch, you can hear it sort of "clunk". It almost feels like the clutch is on/off instead of fluid in the pedal travel. I have bled it properly numerous times and can see it working smoothly.

Another thing that will happen (not sure if separate issue or part of the same) is when off road, even if not slipping the clutch all that often or at all, I will get a squishy clutch pedal randomly, and will have to pump it a few times to get it to come back to normal firmness. No smell of clutch burning at any time really.

And the LAST thing I've noticed is that my very loudly whining first gear seems to continue to whine faintly even when the clutch is pushed all the way in and I am still moving.

I am not sure if I have the wrong thickness of flywheel (and if so, is it too thick or not thick enough). Or is there something else going on like a faulty slave/master, or even the possibility of the front diff having a bit of slack? I'm at a loss. Any help would be appreciated.
 
The clutch you are running is probably too weak for this engine, but unlikely to be causing these problems. Have you bled the clutch? Seems as if maybe the clutch fork isn’t properly secured on the pivot point.
 
Hey blue fox, the flywheel thickness won't be doing much in terms of creating issues. There's either an issue with the clutch pressure plate, the hydraulic system or an issue with the clutch fork.

IIRC there are two mount points for the clutch fork pivot point, which one was used?

Any marks on the clutch fork prior to instillation?

Is there a difference in the clutch master cylinder compared to the NA version, assuming you're using the NA slave cylinder?

Was the throw out bearing clipped in properly?

That first gear noise - are you sure it's the gear and not the diff or the input shaft bearing?

As for the low range, do you know what ratio you have in there? I'm pretty sure the SF only came with the better 1.477:1 ratio. You really can't compare a Subaru to a larger 4wd. - they have insane low range ratios like close to two to one and after market unts above this.

Cheers

Bennie
 
Rally said:
The clutch you are running is probably too weak for this engine, but unlikely to be causing these problems. Have you bled the clutch? Seems as if maybe the clutch fork isn’t properly secured on the pivot point.
Click to expand...

Yep, the slave cylinder was swapped (as it was completely different), so it was all bled, and then bled again when the issues started. No change in problems.

I do know that the clutch is weak for the engine, which is what I wanted being that the DR is much weaker gearbox than the stock turbo box, therefore I'd rather the clutch go up in smoke than break the transmission. So far though, the clutch is holding up much better than I thought it would with the turbo.
 
[MENTION=145]El_Freddo[/MENTION]

I'll try to answer your questions below:

IIRC there are two mount points for the clutch fork pivot point, which one was used?
There was only one on this transmission (at least that I could tell).

Any marks on the clutch fork prior to instillation?
No damage or marks noticed on the clutch fork before I installed it.

Is there a difference in the clutch master cylinder compared to the NA version, assuming you're using the NA slave cylinder?
I am using the NA slave cylinder that came with the transmission, but didn't even think about the master cylinder difference between the turbo and the NA versions. There is a part difference, and very well could be the cause.

Was the throw out bearing clipped in properly?
Yes, made sure of that.

That first gear noise - are you sure it's the gear and not the diff or the input shaft bearing?
The rather loud whining is only in 1st gear (regardless if in low or not). Sounds like reverse, which is also excessively loud and a bit chattery compared to my 5MT Turbo Outback. Reverse also pops out of gear if you go to fast, so I just hold it. I could see it being an input shaft bearing, but no other whining in any other gear.

As for the low range, do you know what ratio you have in there? I'm pretty sure the SF only came with the better 1.477:1 ratio. You really can't compare a Subaru to a larger 4wd. - they have insane low range ratios like close to two to one and after market unts above this.
This is the 1.44:1, yes. Even with the rather light gear reduction, the low range has completely transformed this far off-road. The low just allows it to crawl much better than it did before. I would just like to get the hardened gear set eventually so it's a stronger transmission.
 
Welcome to the world of dual range turbo 2.5 off road Subaru’s. There’s not that many of us with such a setup, even in Australia , let alone the US and hopefully you can sort the issues out soon. No doubt a lot of your fellow countrymen on ORS are a bit jealous! Being able to exploit the torque of the 2.5t makes for a very capable off-roader. What diff ratios are you running?
 
The problem could come from the clutch master cylinder. I had this happen to mine and resolved it by spraying some silicone in the cylinder while pushing the clutch pedal. It makes the piston seal slide smoothly. Hope it helps.
 
The clutch needs to match the gearbox remember, not the engine or the car it's in. There can be some subtle differences between flywheels in how far they sit out, same with the clutch plate. It might be you have the wrong one.

Use the Exedy clutch finder (Aus not US) & find the clutch for your dual range gearbox, then see if it matches what you used

https://www.exedy.com.au/clutch-finder
 
I don't know about the clunking, but any squishy-ness is likely a leak - air getting in the system.

Replace the slave and the line.

What's the condition of the slave you swapped in ? Maybe if it was sitting around on the box unused for a long time, its got a rust-line in the bore and that's giving you the on-off (and also squishy when stuck in) response.

Would be easy to pull and inspect the bore.
 
duncanm said:
I don't know about the clunking, but any squishy-ness is likely a leak - air getting in the system.

Replace the slave and the line.
Click to expand...

Yes I forgot about the flexible line. This is famous for getting a tiny pinhole leak, so small you can't see it & barely makes the hose damp so it can be difficult to detect, but enough to make the pedal spongy. Mine was bad enough that the pedal dropped straight to the floor, but when I took that spiral wrap off was barely able to feel any dampness on the hose.

I'd replace the hose, pretty cheap & very easy to do, IMO a good starting point. Make sure you use new copper washers
 
Rally said:
Welcome to the world of dual range turbo 2.5 off road Subaru’s. There’s not that many of us with such a setup, even in Australia , let alone the US and hopefully you can sort the issues out soon. No doubt a lot of your fellow countrymen on ORS are a bit jealous! Being able to exploit the torque of the 2.5t makes for a very capable off-roader. What diff ratios are you running?
Click to expand...

Thanks! Running the SF 1.44 Dual-Range with the 4.11 final drive. It has really transformed this car for sure!

jf1sf5 said:
The problem could come from the clutch master cylinder. I had this happen to mine and resolved it by spraying some silicone in the cylinder while pushing the clutch pedal. It makes the piston seal slide smoothly. Hope it helps.
Click to expand...

Now that I look into it, it's a very different part since I'm running the turbo one (and one I didn't even think of changing). So I'll be replacing it with an N/A one.

NachaLuva said:
The clutch needs to match the gearbox remember, not the engine or the car it's in. There can be some subtle differences between flywheels in how far they sit out, same with the clutch plate. It might be you have the wrong one.

Use the Exedy clutch finder (Aus not US) & find the clutch for your dual range gearbox, then see if it matches what you used

https://www.exedy.com.au/clutch-finder
Click to expand...

Thanks! Although, I have no idea which model Forester actually had the dual range for the SF model which this transmission is from. I ended up going with the standard N/A flywheel and clutch from the US N/A SF model Forester's here. Not sure if it was correct or not, couldn't find a definitive answer, but I'll play around with that site to check.
 
duncanm said:
I don't know about the clunking, but any squishy-ness is likely a leak - air getting in the system.

Replace the slave and the line.

What's the condition of the slave you swapped in ? Maybe if it was sitting around on the box unused for a long time, its got a rust-line in the bore and that's giving you the on-off (and also squishy when stuck in) response.

Would be easy to pull and inspect the bore.
Click to expand...

The slave was sitting around for a while I believe, but I inspected it before I installed it, could need replacing, which is on the list. The line is new.

NachaLuva said:
Yes I forgot about the flexible line. This is famous for getting a tiny pinhole leak, so small you can't see it & barely makes the hose damp so it can be difficult to detect, but enough to make the pedal spongy. Mine was bad enough that the pedal dropped straight to the floor, but when I took that spiral wrap off was barely able to feel any dampness on the hose.

I'd replace the hose, pretty cheap & very easy to do, IMO a good starting point. Make sure you use new copper washers
Click to expand...

The line itself is brand new, so that should be sorted.
 
I am running the clutch master off a turbo, probably a similar era WRX. Not sure as I just happened to have one lying around. Doubt there is any difference anyway. The NA one won’t fit easily as it will foul the tmic. So stick with the turbo master.
 
We have here 2 different clutch kits for the non-turbo SF5s:

225mm for the dual range SOHC
230mm for the JDM non dual-range DOHC AVCS

The JDM S/TBs and T/TBs have a 225mm but with much beefier components.

@BlueFox: How much variance does the NA market have for the clutch kits?
 
The model is SF Forester non turbo. Only the NA got the dual range
From the clutch finder site, I could only find one:
FJK-7115 or FJK-7115HD
 
Yes, that's the one. Clutch finder is broken here at the moment.

Disregard the 230mm one. The DOHC EJ205 SF5s seem to have come out in Japan only.

Bluefox, is the whining present in low or high range?
 
ABFoz said:
Yes, that's the one. Clutch finder is broken here at the moment.

Disregard the 230mm one. The DOHC EJ205 SF5s seem to have come out in Japan only.

Bluefox, is the whining present in low or high range?
Click to expand...

The whine is very present in first gear only, both high and low. Sounds the loudest when decelerating. Whines a little under acceleration, but I'd say about 80% as much. VERY loud under deceleration, but as I said, only in first.
 
ABFoz said:
We have here 2 different clutch kits for the non-turbo SF5s:

225mm for the dual range SOHC
230mm for the JDM non dual-range DOHC AVCS

The JDM S/TBs and T/TBs have a 225mm but with much beefier components.

@BlueFox: How much variance does the NA market have for the clutch kits?
Click to expand...

The variation is not really anything. All N/A Forester's here in the US used the same clutch from SF to SG, probably higher. That is why I went with the standard N/A clutch and flywheel.

Exedy KSB04 OEM Replacement & stock flywheel for N/A Forester.
 
Blue Fox said:
Exedy KSB04 OEM Replacement & stock flywheel for N/A Forester.
Click to expand...

That might work if you have a single mass flywheel. Remember this gearbox is for a 2.0L dual range NA SF Forester. The US didn't get that, it got the 2.5L single range NA Forester & all the clutch kits on the Exedy site for the 2.5L are different except for the single mass flywheel models

I googled "Exedy KSB04" & found a YouTube video of a guy unpacking the clutch kit. Apart from him taking waaayyy too long lol (why do some people take 3min to show a box full of parts?), it shows:
Clutch plate: FJD025U
Pressure plate: FJC524

On the Exedy site (part number search) these parts show fitment for the SF 2.0L NA 97-02 as well as the SG 2.5L NA 03-08

So who knows :shrug:
 
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