Online 4x4 magazine misquoting Subies (again)...

Tweaksta

Tweaksta

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
615
Location
McMahons Point, Sydney
Car Year
2000
Transmission
5MT
One of the 4wd online mags has lumped Subarus in with all the crap AWDs - wrongly stating that our cars are capable of becoming 2wd under extreme conditions with our open centre diffs.

Have I misunderstood how our Subies work? I always thought manual turbos (and possibly others) had at least SOME drive to front and back due to there being a viscous centre diff (essentially a centre LSD).

Isn't this why the Subaru AWD system is superior to the rest?

Below is a re-type of the article's text:
(source: https://www.unsealed4x4.com.au)

Common Misconceptions:
No 7. Awd is the same as 4wd.

This is usually rolled out by those who drive AWD SUVs (not that there's anything wrong with that). In the real world, AWD may function in a similar fashion to 4wd, but unless you can lock the centre diff it'll never do the job nearly as well when the going gets rough. Sorry all you Forester guys, but there's just no getting around that fact.

AWD vehicles have an open centre diff (just like fulltime 4x4 vehicles like Range Rovers and LandCruisers), but they are unable to lock this centre diff (whereas Rangies and Cruisers can). What does this mean in the real world? Just like with unlock diffs everywhere, the rotation force put out by the engine-gearbox-transfer case will follow the path of least resistance, so despite having an AWD badge on your tailgate, there's a good chance that when you're in the rough stuff, you're actually going to be getting drive to your front or back axle only.

Is this writer an ignoramus, misinformed or just trying to bag anything that isn't a oversized 2.5 tonne smoke belcher?

Some of us have taken our Subies through situations which a larger, heavier vehicle with a locking centre failed at, and if you take a look at some of the vehicles you find way out in the centre of Australia, Subarus do actually make it to many of the place the big guys do. You don't see many of the other AWDs though. I reckon it's a bit unfair to lump us with the other AWDs. Our system is almost next level in comparison.....
 
yeah it's not an open centre, it's a viscus LSD which can provide limited drive to the front and rear at the same time. Although heaps of models run open diffs front and rear, so pretty much that is 1 wheel being driven front, 1 at the rear, so kindof a 2wd anyway.
Not all Suby's are the same of course, and you can always mod. You can custom fit a locking centre (from an old L series, but very rare and hard to find) or you can fit a DCCD centre to effectively lock it. You can also fit clutch-pack LSD diffs to the front and rear.
 
The author is a clearly publishing articles just to make a up a word count in the magazine. The other 'myths' are also unresearched rhetoric for instance, IFS is worse offroad, steel wire is stronger than synthetic rop, mud terrains are better off road, are the one about front auto lockers is just bizarre. All just his opinion and barely a fact to be seen.
 
He's an ignoramus, as you already know, Tweak.

A vLSD will never give heart-stopping grabbing the way a diff lock or mechanical LSDs will. A vLSD is far more civilised than that!

The centre one patently works, and so does the rear one in all SG Foresters and beyond.

Good point about the F & R open diffs in "real" 4wds too, Andrew. My '68 LC had open diffs, with a fully locked transfer case in the centre. This last could be both dangerous and destructive if misused ...

Horses for courses ... :poke: :cool:
 
Spot on, LV.

Like most car reviews I have read since I was about 15 y.o. - just factually incorrect!

Never allow the facts to stand in the way of their prejudices ...
 
Call me a cynic, but the way alot of articles read in most 4wd mags is to advertise accessories from sponsors. 'SUV's aren't any good, because we don't sell accessories for them'.

The centre diff in the Subaru is great and gets you to almost locked (at least in the sf), Wish I had an actual centre lock as yes they work much better when needed. Still it remains Subaru's awd is miles ahead of other softroaders, look at most( not all) Honda crvs the viscous coupling will only send 20 percent to the rear after everything is slipping. Forester still have sort comings in the drive train that leave much to be desired, limited articulation, ground clearance, flexible body, etc, but the Subaru centre vlsd's do work really well, even better if you install the heavy center

These sort of misconceptions are why people are baffled by finding Subaru's out bush, had someone in disbelief once looking at an l series adamant it was modified because it had 'two gear sticks'
 
^ Quite right, Id.

I'm under no misconceptions about my Forester. It's a 125 mph, sedan based soft-roader. That's nearly as fast as a 3.8L Mark II Jaguar, folks - and not all that much slower to get there! The XT versions are faster and accelerate faster than that supreme touring Jag. It is extremely safe to drive because of this (and prang, God forbid!).

The tip angles, handling, braking are all far more car-like than truck based vehicles.

The two-box design makes it a very practical vehicle, but not an overly large one.

On the open road, it is fast, safe and economical.

In some situations, it will easily outperform its heavier 4WD relatives. It isn't much good for towing a 2 tonne trailer though ...

Suits me ... :poke: :biggrin: :cool:.
 
Having crossed the Simpson twice, both times with friends who, cumulatively in their various Foresters have made about 20 crossings, the looks of disbelief from other 4WDs who maintain that our vehicles should not be there is amazing. They usually say nothing further when informed of the number of crossings done by these cars.
https://youtu.be/yu55S28pHQ8
https://youtu.be/EbuMQJjiyWs
Going again in July 2016 just for something different.
 
Yeah, Google constantly bombards me with 4wd articles from some unheard of online "magazines" that really say nothing about anything: I guess they are after a click count or something.

The only way to have a momentary excess power to front with crazy spin on my VTD car is if starting from a complete stop on a really slippery and steep climb that unloads the front wheels.
 
Like the rest have said, lsd center in the newer models make a world of difference in off road situations. It's the main reason I brought a subie over any thing else. Sure it may have to spin the wheels a bit to work, but for us personally it has been the difference between driving out on three wheels or track building for hours.

And besides, if you can't lock all three diffs it only AWD anyway :poke:
 
To say the XV "suffers" is pretty funny. It will fly diagonal wheels and they come to a stop while in the air. Saw it on a vid where the xv was trailing a Land rover and went everywhere the landrover did . lifted up on opposit corners. Thought " I'll try this". Did. So ridiculously easy and controlable. I think as electronic control of all difs gets better, mechanical diffs will probably go the way of mechanical ignition advance.
 
I agree, the once clear cut boundaries have blurred a great deal. Both Wranglers and Toyotas use a system analogous to Subaru's VDC as their primary traction system. Fully locked differentials on the Wrangler Rubicon come into play only over hardcore obstacles/hill climbs that would be too much for a Subie in terms of angles and clearance.

As I like saying, my angles and, to a lesser extent, clearance will stop me from getting where I would need traditional lockers.

Only a couple of SUVs in the US offer mechanical rear locker now. The Land Cruiser, for example, has none, just a central one (in the US). The Rubicon is the single vehicle that has a front one. And so on.
 
Late to the party as usual lol :iconwink:

idw said:
Call me a cynic, but the way alot of articles read in most 4wd mags is to advertise accessories from sponsors. 'SUV's aren't any good, because we don't sell accessories for them'.
Click to expand...

Haha, exactly right. I also think may 4wd owners have their egos damaged when they see a Subie that costs a fraction of their "truck" do the same or better in some cases, so they lash out lol.

had someone in disbelief once looking at an l series adamant it was modified because it had 'two gear sticks'
Click to expand...

Lol:rotfl:

gregjet said:
I think as electronic control of all difs gets better, mechanical diffs will probably go the way of mechanical ignition advance.
Click to expand...

Very likely, up to the point in the not so distant future that diffs become redundant altogether...electric motor on each wheel! :biggrin::monkeydance:
 
" electric motor on each wheel!" That's what I thought for ages. More low torque, electronic wheel spin control, electromagnetic wheel braking to control descents ( think fishing reels) NO DIFF bulge in the middle of the car to reduce clearance , no centre diff/transaxle not gearbox ( OK maybe a gearbox but that's a different matter all together and doesent have to hang down.). Not necessarily pure batteries either. Small defined rpm/torque diesel running the generator ( think diesel-electric trains. You want torque...we got it)
 
Liberty Valance - that Forester belongs to Grahame but he is not a member of this forum - he is from SE QLD :)
 
ateday said:
Just don`t go into water......
Click to expand...

Haha...bzzzzzt :rotfl:

I'm sure it will be very well sealed, esp on offroad designs

Tigger said:
Liberty Valance - that Forester belongs to Grahame but he is not a member of this forum - he is from SE QLD :)
Click to expand...

And its almost like yours! Front & rear Subaxtreme bars, raised springs & 1" spacers, basket, nice wheels....
 
Almost a spitting image of my blue/purple MY03 except I have jerry can holder on rear bar as well. And probably more small parking area dimples.
Just note their spelling of the make of our magnificent vehicles though.
Guess they don`t pay the proof readers.
 
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