98 outback fit 225/70r15 with neon rims?

[87bluebird]

I got a 98 subaru outback legacy wagon the car is worn out and has been sitting all summer. so I just ordered a bunch of new parts to get her back on the road again. All new tie rods ball joints wheel bearings brakes and I ordered new complete strut/spring assemblies for a 2005 forester to give her a mild lift. I also ordered a set of 225 70r15 general grabber at2 tires. I have been searching everywhere for information on how well they will fit. I have seen alot of people use 215 75r15 tires which is a 27.7 inch tire the 225 70r15 tires are only a 27.4 inch tire so diameter/height will fit. But what I am unsure on is width. From what I have read with legacy rims the rear tires will rub on the strut. Legacy rims have a +55mm offset. I have read that forester rims which have a +48mm offset might allow them to just barely clear it. But nothing I have read was definite. I don't have any forester rims and have already spent more than planned on parts but what I was wondering was maybe if I use dodge neon rims would that allow the 225 tires to fit? The neon rims are the same lug pattern and everything but have a +40mm offset so that's 15mm more than the stock rims that it would push the tires out away from struts. And I have a spare set of neon rims here. Has anyone ever tried this? Does anyone have any experience putting or atleast trying to put 225 70r15 tires on a 95-99 legacy or outback? Would that be enough to not rub on the struts? Also what about the fronts will they rub when I turn? And I already ordered the tires so I will make them fit even if I have to take a hammer and Sawzall to the car. lol just looking for advice on it so I know what to look for when I start working on it. hopefully the parts will be here by next week. I attached a picture of what the neon rim looks like if anyone wants to see it. And I will measure the height of the car before and after and take pictures when I do it.

 

[87bluebird]

The only one I have found running 225 70r15 tires is a legacy with outback struts and Springs and a 2 inch body lift and audi rims not sure of offset on audi rims it's on expeditionportal.com this site won't let me post pictures of it

 

[lefty]

if it's the Audi 15 like this one the offset is +38
https://offroadsubarus.com/showthread.php?t=4411&highlight=audi&page=15

can't help you with anything else sorry

 

[87bluebird]

If that's correct than that's only 2 mm more than the neon rims. But I don't have a 2 inch body lift lol do you know how much of a body lift outbacks got over a regular legacy?

 

[87bluebird]

From what I am reading the outback body lift is about 1.5 inches to 2 inches more than a legacy. So a legacy with 2 inch body lift and outback struts is about as tall as my outback is stock.

 

[87bluebird]

Got the rear struts replaced today still waiting on e-brake pads and Springs and brake calipers to get her so I can finish the back of the subaru. Before I took rear brakes off test fit a neon rim to see how well they clear the brakes there's more than an inch and a half of clearance. Didn't get to test fit the front because I was waiting till I got done changing front brakes and started raining so had to stop. I attached a pic of the rear tire to this post. Tires will be in Tuesday so won't be able to test fit them till then

 

[87bluebird]

Got one of the tires mounted on a rim today and test fitted it. the backs clear the strut by about a 1/4 inch and the spring perch by alot the front of the back tire clears the wheel well by only about a half inch but no rubbing so back will be good if I ever figure out how to get the emergency brake Springs and shoes together to finish assembling the rears. Fronts however rub by the inside back by were the lower control arm bolts it's only when I do a full lock turn but still I don't want any rubbing. So next question I am considering is using impreza wrx sti control arms. Does anyone know exactly what years have the 15mm per side wider track? If I use them to push the spindles out 15mm will I need wrx tie rods or will the stock legacy tie rods have enough adjustment in them to be able to align properly? And will using them to push the bottom of the spindle out throw of my camber? If so another thing I wanted to do is build strut bottom spacers to lift the car another 2.5 inches in front and three inches in back. if I do that and build them so they also push the top of the spindle out 15mm would that fix the camber issue of using the wide track control arms and lateral links? Last question is will that go beyond the limits of my stock cv shafts? If so we're could I look to find longer cv shafts? Did foresters or the wide track wrx sti cars have longer cv shafts?

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday Blue

Just a suggestion - use paragraphs ... :biggrin:

Got one of the tires mounted on a rim today and test fitted it. the backs clear the strut by about a 1/4 inch and the spring perch by alot the front of the back tire clears the wheel well by only about a half inch but no rubbing so back will be good if I ever figure out how to get the emergency brake Springs and shoes together to finish assembling the rears.

Fronts however rub by the inside back by were the lower control arm bolts it's only when I do a full lock turn but still I don't want any rubbing.

So next question I am considering is using impreza wrx sti control arms. Does anyone know exactly what years have the 15mm per side wider track? If I use them to push the spindles out 15mm will I need wrx tie rods or will the stock legacy tie rods have enough adjustment in them to be able to align properly? And will using them to push the bottom of the spindle out throw of my camber?

If so another thing I wanted to do is build strut bottom spacers to lift the car another 2.5 inches in front and three inches in back.

if I do that and build them so they also push the top of the spindle out 15mm would that fix the camber issue of using the wide track control arms and lateral links? Last question is will that go beyond the limits of my stock cv shafts? If so we're could I look to find longer cv shafts? Did foresters or the wide track wrx sti cars have longer cv shafts?

There is a reason why strut bottom lifts are not allowed in Oz - they are far too weak. Same goes for rim spacers.
Use a commercial strut top lift and camber bolts instead.

You may well find that anything over a 2 inch lift radically changes the handling of your car for the worse.

One reason I am sticking with a 1" strut top lift is that it should have little, if any, impact on the handling of Roo2, and the car will still be within the upper limit of the OEM specs for my car's suspension height (just ... ).

 

[87bluebird]

Lol yeah i forget to separate in paragraphs sorry

Were are they illegal?

This image is the drawing of my plans of a strut bottom lift. After measuring the strut ears on my spare spindles to get maximum strength they would have to lift a minimum of 4.5 inches and would push top of spindles 3/4 of an inch out with is about 15 mm.

The green lines are a tracing of the original spindles strut mount ear. The black lined shape is the actual lift block which I would have made out of 1 inch thick solid stock. The purple lined shape is the peices of 3/16th plate that would be welded to the inch thick block and would bolt to the spindles atleast that's my plan so far.

Would that be strong enough? The factory spindles strut mount ears are a inch thick and have atleast between 5/8s and 3/4 inch of material around bolt holes I tried to go with about same kind of strength and thickness and figured 3/16ths plate on both sides would be plenty for the part that bolts to the spindle.

I was thinking strut bottom lift so I could eventually run even larger tires

Yeah it will probably hurt handling lifting that much. Probably will cause a lot of body roll but I will eventually put bigger sway bars on it which should help with that and the wider track width should help with that also

And I would either make a spacer to drop trailing arm or find a longer trailing arm and would probably do a couple inches body lift to help driveline angles

 

[Ratbag]

Lol yeah i forget to separate in paragraphs sorry

No worries ... :lol:

Were are they illegal?

Here in Australia, IIRC. Specified somewhere in VSB14 (Vehicle Safety Bulletin - part of the ADRs = Australian Design Rules).

This image is the drawing of my plans of a strut bottom lift. After measuring the strut ears on my spare spindles to get maximum strength they would have to lift a minimum of 4.5 inches and would push top of spindles 3/4 of an inch out with is about 15 mm.

The green lines are a tracing of the original spindles strut mount ear. The black lined shape is the actual lift block which I would have made out of 1 inch thick solid stock. The purple lined shape is the peices of 3/16th plate that would be welded to the inch thick block and would bolt to the spindles at least that's my plan so far. Would that be strong enough? I was thinking strut bottom lift so I could eventually run even larger tires

Only an engineer can tell you what is needed and safe. I certainly cannot.
Part of the problem is that anything done to the strut bottom exerts leverage over the entire length of the strut, which can cause it to fail catastrophically. Get good advice on this ...

Yeah it will probably hurt handling lifting that much. Probably will cause a lot of body roll but I will eventually put bigger sway bars on it which should help with that and the wider track width should help with that also

Absolutely no point making your vehicle so high that it clears everything if doing so also makes it unstable in the process. "Handling" is not just something that is impacted when travelling at speed, it is at the heart of vehicle stability under all conditions, including off-road at low speeds.

And I would either make a spacer to drop trailing arm or find a longer trailing arm and would probably do a couple inches body lift to help driveline angles

You need to talk to NachaLuva about these spacers and what is required. I understand that Primitive Racing and others make these lift and spacer kits in the States.

 

[87bluebird]

I don't know any engineers but I have read of people making taller strut bottom lifts with alot thinner materials than I have planned but I haven't been able to find any information on how well it worked in the long run.

And I don't want to lift it too high my goal for this car is to get about 15 inches of ground clearance below the differential. That's 8 inches over stock. forester struts give an inch of lift if I make strut bottom spacers that's 4.5 inches of lift And if I use a two or 3 inches body lift to correct driveline angles that decreases ground clearance 2 or 3 inches the 225 70 15s I just got lift it about 2 inches so that should put me at just under my 15 inch goal. And should keep the tires from rubbing at all hopefully

 

[87bluebird]

Finally got the rest of the parts and got the car almost done just got to mount the back tires and take her to get an alignment.

The drivers side front don't rub at all even on a full lock turn there is over an inch of clearance. And the passenger front tire only just barely rubbed so I am hoping after I get it aligned and get the steering centered so it turns same amount in both directions it will clear and not rub hopefully.

 

[87bluebird]

Car is on the ground and aligned. A full lock turn with the suspension compressed the tires are less than am 1/8th inch from rubbing but that is the closest that they get so forester struts and Springs and neon rims is all it takes to just barely clear 225 70r15 general grabbers

Just got to get new lug nuts, because the subaru lug nuts sink to far into the rim and the neon nuts have wrong thread pitch. New nuts should be here mid next week.

 

[Ratbag]

Glad it's worked out for you, Blue :biggrin:. Sounds like a terrific result all round.

Don't drive it far or fast until you get the correct wheel nuts for the rims and your car.

This particular issue also gets a mention in the ADRs, because it is of fundamental importance to the safety of the car.

In the USA, safety is nowhere near as big a deal as it is here, apparently.
Here, if your car fails to comply with the ADRs and other regulations made under them, it is automatically deemed unroadworthy. This voids one's comprehensive insurance as well as one's compulsory/statutory third party personal injury insurance ... .

 

[87bluebird]

Yea safety is not really enforced much around here but to the alignment shop and back was enough driving till nuts get here.
I am glad they don't rub and I think they look awesome and really fill the wheel wells out nicely. I can't wait for the nuts to get here so i can drive it more after being on the ground in the neons all summer I missed the subaru!

 

[Ratbag]

I hate to mention this, Blue, but don't be surprised if fitting the correct wheel nuts changes your alignment slightly ... .

We all know just how sensitive our Subies are to minor wheel alignment inaccuracies.

 

[87bluebird]

It's gonna need to go back on a alignment rack anyway they were to lazy to even try fighting the rusty bolts and fix the toe in the back end and they only got the front camber to .8 just barely in tolerance it's Saturday so they didn't want to work they completely refused to balance my tires and I have had the appointment with them scheduled for over a week. Never going to that shop again.

 

[Ratbag]

Hmmm. NOT a good experience ...

Try soaking the rusty nuts with penetrating oil for about a week before going to the next one!

When Roo2 and RonnyRoo needed to have the alignment checked, I had them check the frame for squareness and had all four wheels aligned on both.

Roo2 had all four wheels within spec, but all pointing in different directions! It went from handling like a canal barge to handling more like my '93 Impreza ...

After RonnyRoo chopped out the front passenger side tyre, I also had the same done to it. Changed the handling fairly obviously.

 

[87bluebird]

Bringing this post back from the dead. Drove the Subaru with the forester struts neon rims and 225 70r15 tires for almost 2 years before motor blew she was pretty rusty so stripped it and scrapped it. only issue I ever had with that setup was if I had a load in the back or hit a huge bump enough to completely bottom out the rear end the top 1/8 inch of the outside of the tread would slightly rub the lip on the inside of the wheel well at the top. Just barely and only if fully bottomed out. Used vice grips to bend the lip up slightly and that eliminated that also could have used a small strut top spacer. Fronts never rubbed no matter what I did. Off road only problem it ever had was if it got high centered. Was amazing in deep snow and mud. I miss the car and am trying to find another one. Soon as I do I will do the same modifications to it.

 

[Kevin]

Good luck with the search!