Replace split Tyre

[Ratbag]

This morning, I managed to convince Michelin that they should make a "business decision" and replace one of my tyres pro-rata because of a split side wall. They reckoned it was damaged by an object on the road. To me it looked far more like the side wall de-laminated, then ruptured ...
And besides, I haven't run over anything at all, let alone something that could cause this sort of damage. If it happens again, they all come off, and I will replace them with something in 215/65 16, like Bridgestone Duelers; A/T D697 or H/T D689. This would have the added benefit of correcting my speedo ... :iconwink:.

Anyway, I now have four tyres the same on the car, so will take it for a wheel alignment tomorrow at the place that Lucas recommends.

 

[NachaLuva]

RB, if you do replace yopur tyres, dont waste your money on Bridgestone. They dont have anywhere near the grip of a Geolander, on wet or dry bitumen or gravel. Plus Yokohama have a factory puncture warranty, something it seems you could use right now lol

The very 1st thing I did when I got my Foz was remove the Crapstone Duellers. I replaced the H/Ts with A/Ts expecting there to be less grip but in fact there was more. Just goes to show how bad Crapstone is that even their H/T isnt as good as Yokohama's A/T

Testimony to this is the number of people on here who are very happy with their Geo ATs & the people who decide to try something different & regret their choice

 

[Ratbag]

NL, your experience with Bridgestone tyres is obviously very different from mine.

I had a set of GR90 on Roo1. They were terrific.
The Vic Police use these for their pursuit vehicles ... :iconwink:.

 

[NachaLuva]

RB, I'm only talking about Duellers...they are rubbish!

 

[Ratbag]

^ Which ones?

The ones that you replaced on your car?
How long ago was that?

Or all of them?

Given the reports of most people getting 40K kms out of Yoki A/Ts, I wouldn't touch them with a 40 foot barge pole.

I expect my tyres to get over 60K Kms, AND perform well in all conditions up to the point where they are about to become un-roadworthy.

When you make a blanket statement that " ... dont waste your money on Bridgestone ... ", it is a bit hard to swallow ...

For example, the Dueler A/T D697 has a ten ply side wall. This is a light truck tyre, with car handling characteristics. The "C" version has a lighter carcase, but still heavier than that in the Yoki A/Ts.

When I bought the Michelins 2 years ago, there were almost no tyres available in 215/60 16, and none in 215/65 16. Today, Bridgestone make at least 6 tyres in 215/65 16 size. ALL of them designed and then made available in the last two years.

The problem with "knowledge" of this sort is that it becomes outdated very quickly ... We all need to re-examine our "knowledge" (prejudices?) regularly for this reason.

What is the ply rating for the Yoki A/Ts again?

 

[taza]

Tyres are one of those things it's hard to review. Everyone drives differently, everyone has different vehicles and all tyres react different in the same situation.
All the major tyre makes produce good and bad tyre. I will next be going with cheaper Kuhmo tyres at $~160 each. After paying around $250 a tyre for my last 2 sets of tyres (yoki geos and Dunlop grandtreks) I feel that the higher price doesn't always make them a better tyre.

10 ply doesn't sound right. BFG's are one of the toughest and are 6 ply sideqall. 10 wpuld certainty make for a harsh ride.

FYI I got 50, 000km from my Yoki Geo AT-S without rotation and driving like a P plater (wait..... that's when I was a stupid and extremely inexperienced driver lol). Going back a few years now haha.

Toyo make good road tyres.

 

[NachaLuva]

RB, I dont want to argue. But dont say "reports of most people getting 40K kms out of Yoki A/Ts". On here its the opposite. I've done over 30,000kms & have prob 70% tread left!!!

As for "10 ply sidewall"...are you sure? My Kuhmo muddies are light truck & they have 3 ply sidewalls

Lets just agree to disagree....

 

[havachat]

RB I have got over 70,000 km out of my Yoko ATS and they are still going. As far as grip I don't think you can get a better tyre for on / off road . Excellent wet grip. These are standard 215-60-16. I have recently picked up a second hand set of 65 series so I will be interested as to what kms I get.
Everyone to their own!
Cheers

 

[Kevin]

Moved from suspension thread.

I know people in our club that have had excellent results with Bridgestone. Tyre compounds change over the years e.g. I gave up on Yokos after having 5 of them sidewalled, but then they changed their design and are now becoming popular again. I prefer BFG now but even then I had one set (in 3) that did not perform well - it happened to be the set that crossed the Simpson, so was it friction, a different compound perhaps, I really don't know but, yes, tyres do change over time.

 

[taza]

Got the H/T 689 RB. Blanket runs a set on his Oitback and loves then. He reckons he cant brake traction in the wet woth them.

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday Taza

Thanks (Blanket) for that feedback. It is very useful. I have thought that the A/T D697 would be too far from being a good road tyre for me (even the car version, but specially the LT version!), and was considering the H/T 689 as a good compromise.

What came out of my discussions with the Competition Tyres people yesterday is that the entire tyre market has changed dramatically over just the last couple of years. Yokohama tyres for the Oz market are now made in Thailand, not in Japan . Almost all the tyres previously made in Japan and Korea for the Oz market are now made in Thailand or China (shudder ... ).

The previously high quality tyres (such as the European made Michelins ... ) are now dependent on who is managing the factory in Thailand ...

Some of the Bridgestones I looked at yesterday now have "made in China" embossed on the tyre bead in tiny little print ... .

The A/T and H/T Duelers are now made in Thailand, not Japan.

My Problem:

If, and it's a big IF, I find myself faced with this problem again and I am somewhere in western NSW, I will not have the luxury of careful investigation. That means I will have to order the tyres from wherever and sit and wait for them to be delivered and fitted wherever that happens to be. So the time to do that investigation is now, before I leave.

Chances are that this is a once off situation with this particular tyre. The Michelin rep and outlet could just possibly be correct - that the tyre was staked when moving. Considering that the supposed staking object has penetrated the wall of the tyre right through, and has then supposedly fallen out, leaving the tyre (partly) inflated, I have quite a bit of difficulty accepting this explanation. The cut was about 35-45 mm long, through the entire tyre side wall ... . .

I am hoping this is the case (that it is a single failure of a single bad tyre). I am not the sort of person who is going to chuck away a fairly new set of tyres and plonk down about $850-1,000 for a new set on a whim! Let's hope this is the case :iconwink:, and that I have no further trouble with these tyres.

As Kevin mentioned, tyres and their often deserved reputation change all the time. In my youth, Michelins were supposed to have "weak side walls". I have driven well over half the miles I have driven in my life on Michelin tyres, and this is the first side wall failure I have encountered with them.

Chances are that the Yokis that you and others here have were made in Japan.
If you bought the exact same tyres today, they will be made in Thailand ...

Things change ...
Keeping up with the changes is the hard part!

 

[NachaLuva]

Very true. Change is the only thing that never changes! lol

 

[stilson]

Will a 65 profile tyre void your insurance?

 

[guzzla]

Interesting information Ratbag. The 2nd, 3rd & 4th sets of tyres I've run on my Forester (after those horrible Yokohama Geolandars that it came on) were Bridgestone Potenza RE001 and RE002 Adrenalins. They have a great reputation as a performance tyre with great ability in the wet. The first set were made in Japan, the second in Australia and the third in Thailand. The Japanese made were the best in the wet (absolutely incredible) and the Thai built not quite as good. However the Thai built lasted the longest -70,000km with distance to spare.

And it rather got me wondering about the country of manufacture branding too. My Golf recently got a nail through the sidewall of one of the original Michelin Energy tyres (made in Germany). I've had to replace it with a Michelin Pilot Sport 3 - by reputation a better, more performance orientated tyre - which looks very similar to the Energy. I cannot find any stamping of country of manufacture on it. Maybe it is hidden on the bead? If so, what have they got to hide?

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday ST

Will a 65 profile tyre void your insurance?

No. It's legal under the ADRs [EDIT] I might have to re-research this ... Bugger [end edit]. Insurer is only concerned with width & aquaplane risk.

From my Batphone

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday Guzzla

Agreed.

I cannot find any stamping of country of manufacture on it. Maybe it is hidden on the bead? If so, what have they got to hide?

Quite ...

From my Batphone

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday again ST

Gidday ST

No. It's legal under the ADRs [EDIT] I might have to re-research this ... Bugger [end edit]. Insurer is only concerned with width & aquaplane risk.

From my Batphone

I checked this with my insurer today. I told them that the unladen OEM specs for the rear wheel arch to wheel centre is 440 mm +12/-24, and that my rear SLS and spring were shot, having a rear suspension height of 400 mm unladen with no spare wheel. I told them what I had done as regards changing over to the Pedders units, and that the rear ride height was now 425 mm unladen and 415 mm with my trailer attached. They were happy with this.

They also have no problems at all with my fitting 215/65 16" tyres instead of the placard size of 215/60 16" - as long as:

1) The total lift of the vehicle is not more than 50 mms;

2) The width of the tyres is not increased;

3) The rims are the OEM rims that came with the car (they will not accept the risk on non-standard, after-market rims!);

4) That the suspension is not changed in any non-standard way: e.g. they were quite happy with me replacing the OEM SLS with the Pedders variable rate assemblies on the advice of the mechanic and Pedders, but they are not happy with other kinds of modifications to the OEM suspension that doesn't basically involve replacing like with like.

AND, in the case of my fitting 1" lift blocks later on, that I:

1) notify them in writing as soon as is practical after doing it; and

2) that the increase in height resulting from both suspension parts and tyres is not more than 50 mms in total.

Seems that they understand the rules pretty well if you ask me.

The person also expressed the view that it was extremely unlikely that even the most pedantic Policeman would be concerned with tyres that were 6.5 mm in diameter larger than the allowed size. I guess the legislators have to set a limit somewhere, but the principle of de minimus non curat lex applies (literally, "the law does not concern itself with trifles").

I have made a file note of all this; signed and dated with the person's name and location.

 

[Sarge98]

Well I seem to be the odd one out, but I freaking love my Bridgestone Dueler A/T's (D697)!! I'll rave on about them, cause in my opinion they deserve it! I don't take particularly good care of them in an offroad sense - for example I often do the mundaring powerline track at 36psi - but have tried to on the bitumen (how the hell does that work, should be the other way around!) taking it slow around corners etc.

Only today, I went to the tyre shop and the guy had a look over them for me, and reckons they've still got 2/3rds in them and I'd have to agree- I've done over 50,000km nearing 60 now. Reason I went to the shop was to get a new tyre as I drove over a piece of steel today and it gashed the sidewall and took a chunk out of the tread unfortunately (it was a good hit at speed). Only other puncture I had was running over a shattered glass bottle at the tip, cause I wasn't paying attention!

Performance on the road is good in my opinion, but that could be very subjective - taking into account the rubbish sound proofing of the interior, the tyres are very quite. Braking is good, although I reckon may have decreased slightly from the pirelli's I had on stock. Paired with the AWD system of the Forester, I absolutely love driving my car on gravel roads! I would never get the H/T version, but that is based on the fact that I travel gravel/corrugated roads very often, not to mention all the offroading (powerlines track etc).

Good luck with your decision anyway! Everybody seems to rave on about the Geolander's and either never mention or negatively talk down the Duelers, so either I have no clue what the hell I am on about, or they don't know what their missing out on... :lol:

 

[Ratbag]

Thanks for an alternate view, Sarge.

I reckon that the D697 (C version) are probably a bit more off-road than I want, but the H/T 689 seems a good compromise, with a reasonably open tread for dirt and such like, but somewhat more car like in their on road handling characteristics.

The D697 (LT version) would almost certainly play havoc with the on road manners of my car, something I am not prepared to tolerate. If I lived in the bush, I would fit the D697LT in an eye blink ...