SG bottom strut lift

[Dan-P]

After browsing the forum for I am trying to get a bit more information on the bottom strut lift that some people have fitted.
I have not seen anyone on here fit one to an SG Forester before, so have a few quick questions.
Is a bottom strut lift suitable for an SG? i.e. Will there still be enough clearance between the knuckle and the inside of the wheel/tyre?
Is there anything else that needs to be installed or adjusted at the same time? I know I will need rear trailing arm spacers but is anything else required?
After chatting to the local Subaru specialist to arrange the yearly M.O.T test we have to have here in the UK, we got chatting about Foresters in general. He mentioned while he had no experience of lifting before, his main concerns would be the front camber and the steering (I'm not sure exactly what about the steering due to the combination of a bad connection and a strong accent :lol: but I think it was something about it may have to be extended? ). Are these actual problems, and if so what can be done about these?

 

[jf1sf5]

Haven't done this but I would be careful with the struts, especially if they are KYB's as they bend quite easily. If you weld 2 nice pieces of metal and bore new holes for the camber bolts with a bit more camber, it should be fine...have a try !

 

[NachaLuva]

A bottom strut lift is very illegal in Oz, which is why I havent tried it lol. You have to weld on reinforcing plates to the knuckle, use the bottom bolt hole as the new top hole & drill a new bottom hole. There are difficulties in that as well as the strut is filled with pressurised gas...too much heat & you can guess the rest!





You can see the top hole is used to help support the plates. Note, this person used a bolt in the middle hole that is too short...the bolt must extend past the nut by a minimum of the bolts diameter, ie, if a M14, then by 14mm or more. (I believe by engineering standards its a % of the diameter, governed by loads, type of load, tensile strengths, etc, but this is a good rule of thumb).

Note also, the bottom bolt hole doesnt the same gap as the middle, so would need shims. A better way would be to weld in extra appropriately sized steel to make the inside the same thickness. Remember, the knuckle bolts clamp the knuckle...friction holds it in place, not the bolts, so this setup (as done here) would be prone to the knuckle slipping & the camber changing.

An added bonus would be when drilling the bottom hole (do this on the bench before welding) to drill it slightly offline to give a little more neg camber :biggrin:

A final note: any suspension mods, esp of this type, need to be understood & the work done of a very high standard. In most countries, a failure of this type could land you in jail if someone were to be hurt as a result. It may also be illegal in the UK as it is here. You will have to check. & remember, I am merely sharing this info with you, not recommending you do it. All responsibility is yours

 

[idw]

Besides the problems others have put up. Do you really want to have to weld up a new strut every time you bust a shock?

 

[NachaLuva]

We should add, there are alternatives. A strut top lift is common, totally legal (again check reulations in the UK) & removable, also transferable to a new strut if you bend one as idw said. If done properly, will also include camber correction front & rear plus extra caster for the front for better tracking/turn in.

 

[Dan-P]

Thanks for all the helpful info. As for the legalities here, either way would be legal (assuming properly constructed and fitted). I was concerned more for the safety and durability aspect.
Why are bottom lifts illegal in Australia then? Is the strut under more stress and force from a bottom lift rather than a top lift and more likely to break? If a top lift is generally considered safer and stronger, I would probably stick to a top lift instead.
That way would also have the advantage of being available to order from Sumo or a couple of other suppliers I believe, rather than having to have them fabricated, although I am not sure how much shipping would be.
I guess the only disadvantage of a top lift is it doesn't increase spring clearance at all, so I would probably have to source a set of 15 inch wheels that will clear the XT brakes to increase tyre choice.

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday Dan

Thanks for all the helpful info. As for the legalities here, either way would be legal (assuming properly constructed and fitted). I was concerned more for the safety and durability aspect.

So are the ADRs (Australian Design Rules).

Why are bottom lifts illegal in Australia then?

The ADRs are primarily concerned with safety and pollution. A strut bottom lift modifies an extremely important aspect of the safety of the car - the ability to keep its wheels connected to the suspension and body ... That's why they are prohibited under the ADRs.

As NL has already said, welding to a heavy duty gas strut is problematic for several reasons. One ends in a ka-boom, the other ends in the morgue. It is extremely hard to weld such a "delicate" component properly once it has been charged with gas.

Is the strut under more stress and force from a bottom lift rather than a top lift and more likely to break?

Yes. This too.

If a top lift is generally considered safer and stronger, I would probably stick to a top lift instead.

The other reason that a strut top lift is better is that it is a lift block, not welded to the strut or top hat. Therefore extremely easy to reverse.

That way would also have the advantage of being available to order from Sumo or a couple of other suppliers I believe, rather than having to have them fabricated, although I am not sure how much shipping would be.
I guess the only disadvantage of a top lift is it doesn't increase spring clearance at all, so I would probably have to source a set of 15 inch wheels that will clear the XT brakes to increase tyre choice.

I understand that some Audi 15" rims are the right wheel stud spacing (5 x 100), and pretty close to the correct offset (measurement from the wheel rim to the rear of the wheel mounting plate or centre).

Do a search for "audi rims" without the quotes here. Quite a number of members have fitted these.

 

[NachaLuva]

T
That way would also have the advantage of being available to order from Sumo or a couple of other suppliers I believe, rather than having to have them fabricated, although I am not sure how much shipping would be.

IIRC shipping to Oz is about $70, would be cheaper to the UK.

I guess the only disadvantage of a top lift is it doesn't increase spring clearance at all, so I would probably have to source a set of 15 inch wheels that will clear the XT brakes to increase tyre choice.

A strut bottom lift wont increase wheel to brake clearance either. It simply moves the whole hub assemble downwards... brakes, wheels n all.

I'd be very interested if the 15" Audi rims clear XT brakes as I would like to upgrade my SF brakes to SG XT.

The Audis to look for are Audi A3, '97-'03. They can be recognised by having round cutouts around the rim instead of square. They have a better offset (+38 instead of +48) plus the inside of the rim seems wider where the caliper sits. They're also very light forged alloy, not cast, so strong too

All the info you need is here, incl wheel nuts & hubcentric rings:
Guide to 15" Audi Rims - ORS

 

[idw]

strut bottom lift wont increase wheel to brake clearance either. It simply moves the whole hub assemble downwards... brakes, wheels n all.

I think Dan-P , went clearance for bigger rubber.

 

[Dan-P]

So it looks like the general opinion is I'd be better off going for a top lift then as it will be safer and easier to install and more durable.
Thanks for the information about the Audi alloys. I've had a read through the thread and it's definitely one option for wheels.

I think Dan-P , went clearance for bigger rubber.

Yes this is what I meant. Most of the mud tyres available in 16" appear to start just a tiny bit too big to clear the spring perch on the forester, so the choice was between a strut bottom lift and keep the 16" wheels, or a top lift and source some 15" wheels.