Wheel welding!

Tannin

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
209
Location
Huon Valley Tasmania
Car Year
2007
Car Model
Forester
Transmission
Manual
One to watch out for.

On my 2004 (MY05) Forester, the stock steel wheels weld themselves to the hubs! You go to change a tyre, and you can't get the old wheel off! This has been happening for years now. I think I've finally fixed it.

What happens is that the inner part of wheel - the 30cm hole in the middle where the the end of the axle protrudes (covered, normally, by the little silver plastic cap with "Subaru" written on it) corrodes a little bit, and the end of the axle corrodes a little bit, and because it's a tight fit, they weld themselves together. You undo the wheel nuts, jack the car up, and can't budge the damn thing!

Now, imagine that you are somewhere outback with a completely trashed tyre. That could get really serious! Like life and death serious, given the wrong circumstances.

If the tyre is fully inflated, you can stand with your back to the wheel, and kick backwards like a horse, aiming at the outside of the rubber to get maximum leverage. That works in mild to moderate cases. But sometimes even that does not budge it. I have once or twice kicked the damn thing 'till I was exhausted, and I'm an adult male of reasonable build. Someone elderly, or even a slightly built woman would have basically no chance.

^ And this is with a fully-inflated tyre. With a flat tyre - and if it isn't flat, why are you changing it anyway? - it's much, much harder.

Hitting it with a rubber mallet does nothing. Not even close. And you can't use something like a mash hammer even if you have one handy 'cause it would bash up the metal of the wheel. Maybe a jemmy would do it, I haven't tried that, though I did once break the blade of a small mattock trying to uses it to lever a wheel off the Forester. I should think a crowbar would work brilliantly - but who has one of those handy in the outback just in case?

Last week I spat the dummy and went down to get my mechanic to help - not just to budge the one wheel I wanted to change on the day, but to find a permanent fix that would let me change a flat tyre on my own with just the tools I have in the car as routine. I learned several things:

1: the part that sticks is the part I described at the top of this post. Probably because that part is normally hidden by the plastic caps, I hadn't thought of that and had (wrongly) assumed it was the flat part of the steel wheel binding to the flat mounting plate (near the five studs). This is why putting a smear of grease on that flat plate did not work!

2: by lying under the car after you jack it up (put the spare tyre underneath next to you so that you stay safe if the jack should collapse!) and belting the inner rim with a dead blow hammer - and I mean belting, not little love taps - you can usually budge it.

3: another trick to try is to loosen off the wheel nuts a fair way and then drive a short distance (with care!). This mostly works, but not always.

4: Once you have the wheel off, use a scrap of sandpaper to buff off the corrosion on the axle end, and inside the hole in the wheel where they meet. Get them both nice and smooth. Then, before you replace the wheel, coat the surfaces with an anti-sticking compound.

5: Carry a dead blow hammer in the car at all times. I didn't know what this was: it turns out to be a sort of hollow mallet filled with lead shot. It lets you deliver a powerful blow without damaging the thing you hit. They are not cheap! I paid about $100 for a Stanley one. Maybe there are cheaper brands. But it's already come in handy for some other jobs, and now it lives under the floor next to the jack, ready if needed.
 
What a pia! Glad I have alloy wheels. I use a very slight smear of anti-seize grease on all wheel studs - would probably work for this issue as well. Be very careful with #3 - could snap the studs!
 
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Gidday Tannin

Clean the inner hole in the wheel very well by all means, however sanding it may well destroy the paint protecting its surface.

If you use a Scotchbrite pad on the hubs it should clean all the garbage and scunge off. Then apply a very light coat of heavy oil to it (e.g. wipe over with a bit of towelling that has some engine oil on it), and then wipe it as clean as you can. The oil will still form a molecular barrier to prevent rust. Do the same to the backing plate, BUT avoid getting oil on the wheel studs.

Do not use any form of grease or oil on the studs or wheel nuts. This can lead to serious over-tightening of the wheel nuts, with attendant metal fatigue of the studs and backing plate, and the risk of gross failure.

Rotating the tyres as per the Owner's Manual should keep the hubs free and loose enough. Repeat cleaning as necessary.

Thanks for the heads up. I will do the same with my trailer tyres/rims (Subaru 16" steelies), as they never get rotated ... :iconwink:.
 
Do not use any form of grease or oil on the studs or wheel nuts. This can lead to serious over-tightening of the wheel nuts, with attendant metal fatigue of the studs and backing plate, and the risk of gross failure.

Not if they're torqued properly it won't. I been using a light smear of hi-temp anti-seize for 30+ years and never had any problems.
 
Gidday Kevin

Hate to disagree mate, but not only the Owner's Manuals but every workshop manual I have ever seen states that no bolts or nuts or studs should ever be lubricated, as they are designed to be torqued "dry". Same goes for the tapered wheel nut seat on the rim.

All should be thoroughly cleaned before installation (wire brush and solvent; or wiped clean, as appropriate), but never lubricated.

When lubricated, the amount of force required to reach a given "dry" torque is reduced, and this leads to continuing until the item reaches the set torque of one's tension wrench. This is high enough above the recommended "dry" torque to cause engineering concerns.

The above applies whether wheel nuts or head studs/bolts, camshaft carrier studs/nuts, main bearing bolts/nuts, etc.
 
Not if they're torqued properly it won't. I been using a light smear of hi-temp anti-seize for 30+ years and never had any problems.

I've been doing this as well for 30+ years and use a torque wrench to tighten them to spec. On a rusty hub with steel wheels I will coat the hub with a very light film of bearing grease.
 
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I too have alloys & have never had a problem (touch wood)
And yes, thanks for the heads up :)

Regards
Mr Turbo
 
Cheers boys, interesting responses. A couple of points rare worth going into further.

Clean the inner hole in the wheel very well by all means, however sanding it may well destroy the paint protecting its surface.

This is undoubtedly good advice for newish wheels, and when my mechanic told me to sand them I was doubtful (he actually used a small grinder, gave them a good going over), but these wheels are almost 10 years old and the anodised coating on the contact patch is long since compromised.

In fact, now that I think back, I never used to have this trouble back in the day. It only started to become an issue after (guess!) 100-150 thousand km and four or five years. There may or may not have been a climatic factor there too - the wet tropics can corrode most things!

So the lesson here is clean carefully (as per Ratbag's advice) on newish wheels; but where the surface is no longer intact, do whatever you have to do to clean it up, then coat it with something.

Be very careful with #3 - could snap the studs!

A good point to ponder. I can't see it being too much of a risk on thse wheels - the wheel itself can only move a very small distance because the axle-end is a close fit to the central hole. But it might make sense to loosen off only a moderate distance - two or three mm, let's say. You tend to want to do that anyway 'cause we don't want the whole damn wheel to come off once we break the stiction! I've only used this method once but I found that I could tell immediately when the stiction broke because you could hear the wheel start rattling, just as a wheel usually does if the nuts are loose. I see no reason why anyone in their right mind would want to go at any real speed doing this - especially if you already have a flat!


Finally, the great greasy nuts debate. I am watching this one with interest. I have never greased wheel nuts 'til the other day when my mechanic said it was a good idea to put just a tiny bit on. He says they often see cars come in with the studs wrecked because the bare metal-on-metal binds to itself. Common with many brands of car, he said.

Till further notice, I'm going to compromise by using a little bit of silicone spray instead.
 
my father used grease on studs for years, i never have as i dont find it necessary.
with the whole wheel getting stuck though, our magna did the same thing, i ended getting a very large pry bar to get it off
 
G'day again Tannin and All

I was taught about this in my youth by Mr Neville Keid, the workshop manager (they were called "head mechanic" in those days) at Howard's Motors in Brisbane (the then main BMC dealer for Queensland). At least in part because the family owned so many of their vehicles, Mr Keid (and all the mechanics in the shop, for that matter) took me under his wing and instructed me in the finer points of motor vehicle dismantling and mantling over a period of about 3 years. I could use the shop for anything, and other mechanics would lend me their tools (gasp!). I was also given access to the dealer service and repair manuals, special tools, etc.

Often Mr Keid would get one of the more senior mechanics to help and instruct me. Sort of an apprenticeship when I wasn't actually a real apprentice ...

They had a special washing trough full of degreaser that was used specifically for this purpose; then further troughs for successively removing the finest particles from the parts.

Mr Bruton owned the dealership, and he was equally kind to me.

A great kindness and generosity of spirit on all their parts, and I often recall their help and freely imparting of their knowledge to me with great fondness.
 
if you're going to use anything on the threads, use lanotec or similar IMO. More of a sealant than a lubricant. made from lanolin.
 
Never let anyone with a rattle gun near your wheels regardless.

+1

If you get your wheel nuts nuts done up with a rattle gun, no matter how much they assure you its set to the correct torque, dont believe them. When you get home loosen them then retighten.

I always use a little anti-seize on mine.
 
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