Low milage good or bad?

[Barnboy]

I saw a 2004 Forester for sale locally and couldn't resist going to look as I have been thinking about an upgrade to an SG recently.

This car is like going back in time, as it is like new inside and out. All the doors open and close effortlesly, the switches are all crisp, gears tight.It has only done 49,000 miles ( 80,000km) with a full service record. I think it has been owned by an old guy that probably used it as a shopping cart. It has only been doing about 1000 miles per year for the past few years.

On the face of it it seems great, but if you look underneath you can the the whole exhaust system has suffered from lack of use and not getting hot, as this is pretty rusty. All the suspension components have a but if surface rust, once again I guess as it has been sitting around a lot, although the body is spotless. It is probably still on its first clutch , so that could be another cost to think about for the future.

People say that low milage is good, but I am a bit wary of this if it has not been run hot much and has perhaps worn it more than you would expect .

Any thoughts on this?

The garage is asking top money for it in my eyes. A slightly rougher car with twice the miles would costs about half of this.

Your comments would be much appreciated, as I really don't know what to make of it.

Cheers

Tim

 

[Ratbag]

My only real concern would be if a compression check shows that the compression is higher than spec (or far lower ... ). That would indicate serious carbon build up, and this would be all through the engine - piston crowns, rings, valve seats, valve guides, exhaust ports.

It is quite normal for a nearly 10 y.o. car's exhaust to look pretty crappy.

Check that the timing belt has been replaced at least once at this age. Even if it has been, it would now be due for it again, due to age ... If it hasn't been, factor the cost of that into your price negotiations (along with idlers, water pump, etc ... ).

Check the oil filler cap. Has it got any sludge build up at all? If it has, it could indicate that the engine needs serious flushing.

If it passes on these points, and anything else one can think of, it could well be an excellent buy (depends on asking price, of course). I bought both of ours in excellent condition, but needing some of these things doing to them. The price was on the very low side of right for cars of their mileage for both, the good deal was on condition and equipment levels.

BTW, I never replaced the clutch in Roo1, and it had 234,000 kms and 18 y.o. when I traded it on Roo2. AND I drove it like I stole it a lot of the time ...

 

[nipper]

Low milage can be bad as cars are meant to be driven. Rust or not rubber dries out moving or otherwise, so will still need a timing belt seals etc. the car will need fresh fluids.

Surface rust is not a big deal, any car this age will have that. Exhaust systems do not rot out like they used to.

The big question, how often was the oil changed and how were these miles attained. Are we talking once a week to church 20 miles away or everyday to OTB around the block. The latter being worse for the car. If the tires are original it will need tires.

Check conditions of the fluids. Look at the service records and read them before making any offer.

 

[Barnboy]

Thanks for the replies!

It has nearly had a service every year ( may be missing one i think)and one timing belt change, so Ratbag you are quite right, it will be due one soon based on age.

I think I will take it for another drive, perhaps a bit longer and give it a good going over. It has pretty new Bridgestone duellers all round, so at least that would be one less expense.

Like you say nipper , hopefully it hasn't just been driven round the corner to the shops every few days .

Cheers

Tim

 

[Ratbag]

G'day again Tim

Thanks for the replies!

It has nearly had a service every year ( may be missing one i think)and one timing belt change, so Ratbag you are quite right, it will be due one soon based on age.

The Camry that we got from SWMBO's Dad was driven like that for about 5 to 6 years. He only serviced it when it had done its 10K kms ... So the engine was pretty gudged up with emulsified oil. Ross took the top and bottom off the motor and ran cleaning brushes through all the oilways ...

I think I will take it for another drive, perhaps a bit longer and give it a good going over.

That will tell you a lot. I drove a 2004 that looked very nice, but even just a drive up the main road (80 km/h zone) told me to run a mile from it ... It had about the same amount of get up and go as my very tired, 1.8L Impreza (Roo1), that hadn't had the plugs changed for about 100+K kms. Given that Roo2 weighs about 20% more than the Impreza, but has something like 60% more torque (at lower revs) and 50% more KW, the 2004 Forester should have leapt off the mark - it didn't ...
It also consistently pulled to the left, and the wear pattern on the tyres showed that it had done so for quite a long time.

It has pretty new Bridgestone duellers all round, so at least that would be one less expense.

That's a huge financial plus. Tyres are very expensive here. Don't know about the UK. The Michelin XM2s in 215x60 16" for Roo2 cost around $750 for 4. That included re=-mounting and balancing the old Pirelli P7s on my trailer rims; and a full four wheel alignment - all my wheels were within spec, just pointing in different directions ...

Like you say nipper , hopefully it hasn't just been driven round the corner to the shops every few days .

I don't know that this is too much of a worry, unless very short trips. Roo1 used to warm up in around 500 - 800 metres. Roo2 is much the same. Unlike most cars I have owned that required at least 2-3 kms to get warm-ish. Something about the flat four engine?? Who knows.

Just watch out for a seriously under-performing engine ... Bear in mind that driving it moderately vigorously for a few thousand kms will blow a lot of garbage out of the engine, assuming it isn't stuffed, which should be fairly obvious ...

However, mechanical repairs are a known quantity. Body and interior repairs can cost an absolute bomb ...

 

[thunder039]

Roo1 used to warm up in around 500 - 800 metres. Roo2 is much the same. Unlike most cars I have owned that required at least 2-3 kms to get warm-ish. Something about the flat four engine?? Who knows.

on a cold day it can take my brumby nearly 9km on the highway to get up to temp :rotfl:

what type of driving and how was it driven is what i would be wondering.
if its been driven hard while only doing short town trips then i would say 80,000ks is a lot, compared to a car that has been driven gently on long trips that may have 100,000+ ks

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday Thunder

on a cold day it can take my brumby nearly

I'd check the thermostat, mate. Just should not take that long for an engine to get warm ...

 

[thunder039]

not worried about it, doesn't get hot so thats the main thing. when i mean cold i mean 0-4 degrees so the car is very cold. plus i only do about 4000ks a year in the ute

 

[OutbackOiler]

Mine was an 03 with 95000km on the clock when I got it late last year, so far I can't fault it and I now have 113000km on it so I think anything weak would have shown its face in that time. Mine had a full subaru history and even had the timing belt changed based upon time not mileage so I was happy with that. On the up side they usually have trouble moving low mileage older cars because people have just your concern which as in my case a managed to screw them down on price and seeing as your from the UK you would think I payed way too much because our cars are bloody expensive in comparison.

 

[NachaLuva]

IMO the low kms is great...providing the dealer comes to the party re recognizing certain things deteriorate with age regardless of kms...esp timing belts, tyres, etc & some things need regular use to keep in good condition, like A/C seals & exhaust.

If you can negotiate a fair price I say go for it...

 

[Tannin]

Don't worry about the clutch. My 2004 (MY05) Forrester has done 260,000km including lots of sand and other stuff, and still very happily on the factory clutch.

 

[Barnboy]

That is true what you said OutbackOiler. As it has been well serviced, then hopefully any issues may have shown by now. I think I will just take it for a very long test drive and be sure it performs as it should.

Good to hear about getting high milages on clutches, always thought they would be done by about 80,000 miles of normal driving. Ratbag and Tannin, that is pretty impressive on a factory clutch!

I know what you mean about UK car prices, they are very low for used cars. This foz is £3950 ( 6049 AUD), one with double the miles would be about £2200.

I will keep you posted, should be over to look at the car again on Wednesday.

Cheers for all the comments, definitely given me some good stuff to think/ look at .

Tim

 

[Barnboy]

You snooze, you lose is the moral of the story.

Left work early today to go and see the car again, only to find someone had just pulled in off the road an hour earlier seen it and bought it.

I figure if I had been that sure it was the one, then I would not have had such a long think about it.

 

[idw]

Keep looking around, imo the difference between 80-150k's on the odo is nothing but more cash in your pocket. My last car (it was a toyota i'll admit) i bought at 210k and it went to heaven at 380k and was 23 years old at the time.

Really low k's on a 10 plus year old car isn't really a good thing, everything is still 10 years old and theres a good change nothings been lubricated properly. Bearings develop flat spots when under load and not used, thats why the little old ladies suv thats only been to church wont go into 4wd and has a gearbox that wails like a banshee

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday Tim

You snooze, you lose is the moral of the story.

Bad luck, mate .

There is some truth in that.

In my (recent) experience with buying two s/h Foresters in the last 14 months, one needs to carefully specify exactly what one wants, so that you know it pretty much instantly when you see it.

IOW, be ready to pounce ... :iconwink: :lol:.

When I saw Roo2 (MY06, 2006, DR/5MT, 2.5L N/A, 101K kms) advertised (on the other side of Melbourne - about an hour's drive each way), I rang and let them know I would be there that afternoon, could they hold it for me (on trust). They agreed. I had limited time, but had a quick look and took it for a test drive. Seemed OK. Put a $50 holding deposit on it until the next day, when I could go back with grovelling clothes on. Did so. Ran all the body seams I could reach underneath, etc. Took about 2 hours. Took it for a much longer test run, including on the tollway.

Paid a full deposit subject to them fixing a few minor items. Picked it up at the end of that week.

It would appear that they needed a relatively big ticket sale, as just before Christmas, with the (financially) bleak period of January ahead of them - Yes, motor traders have to pay their bills too ... :iconwink:.

14 months later, no serious problems with the car, other than having a four wheel alignment when I got new tyres for it. The old tyres will last forever on my trailer. All 4 wheels were within spec, but all in different directions. In every other respect, like having a brand new car. I buggered the rear exhaust resonator at Bunyip SP and Noojee. Had a new one cut in at minimal expense.

With SWMBO's SH auto (Sep 2009 build, 65K kms, auto, 2.5L, N/A), I saw the advertisement appear at around 1923H on Friday night. Was on the phone to the dealer at just after 0900H on Saturday. We were the first of 3 callers by the time we got there at around 1000H. Took it for a test run - fine. Grovelled under the car, all seemed OK. Haggled them up $1000 on the trade-in for the Camry, and down $1,000 on the price of the SH XS auto. That put it within the price I was prepared to pay for a car a year older, with about 20,000 kms more on the clock.

Both cars were one owner, pretty complete service histories, NOT "demonstrators" - i.e. delivered to their original owners to order with about 20 kms on the clock.

Both had several thousand bucks worth of accessories that the two different dealers were unaware of, or what those extras cost.

In both cases, my insurer valued both cars for an agreed sum of $4,000-5,000 (20-25%) more than we paid for them.

As I said before, knowing what you are looking for, and in what condition, and being ready to pounce is the secret, IMO.

Always remember the House of Lords ruling that a penny can bind a contract for a million pounds ... :biggrin:.

 

[Scooby2]

You snooze, you lose is the moral of the story.

.... and another one that comes to mind... "he who hesitates is lost"

Buggar you missed it Barnboy.

I agree with Ratbag. Be very particular about what it is you are looking for. We started not very seriously looking for an update to Scooby (1995 Liberty stock standard with no hi/lo range with 240,000 kms on the clock but still as reliable as ever). Had my heart set on most definitely a Liberty, but this time really wanted hi & lo range because Swifty (1984 Sportswagon with 400,000 kms on the clock and still as reliable as ever) had a tragedy some years back and her hi/lo range gearbox went to Subaru Heaven which reduced her to only a front wheel drive gearbox.

I had put exactly what we were looking for in a few car sales websites. We had only looked at one REALLY REALLY BAD specimen of a 2004 Subaru Liberty which was most definitely not only a flood damaged right off but also so abused and unloved that the driver's door wouldn't even close in the hole because the body was so badly warped/aligned. We came away from looking at that one, and fell back in love with our Swifty because in comparison she was a limo!

Months later I was Googling something totally unrelated I think on Gumtree... and there.. popped up out of the blue was Scooby 2 (White Manual 2000 2.5 Outback with 170,000 kms on the clock). The car sales websites had my previous search saved, and every time something that matched the original search criteria came on the market, I was notified. What that told me, is that you can look and look and look... but reality is that it took months for what matched our criteria to become available second hand. We only needed to drive it once to know it was our car. We had a towbar fitted, had an Alpine stereo with Bluetooth & Ipod connection, installed electronic rust proofing, and to us... for under $9000 we had a "new" car.

Good luck with your search for a new set of wheels Barnboy

Regards,

 

[NachaLuva]

Shame you missed it but you did the right thing not rushing into it. The dealers want you to buy TODAY!! & will use all sorts of tactics to pressure you into it whether that car is the right one for you or not.

Take your time, look around & be patient...there are plenty more well maintained, low km Subies out there if you're patient enough :iconwink:

 

[Barnboy]

I figure at least now I am a little wiser when it comes to low mileage older cars. A guy I work with was saying he has known a few cars in the past that had been parked up for a long period and then found all the o rings and seals had dried out and caused all sorts of problems. I don't think this foz fell ino this category, but something I had not thought of.

In the past I have always bought high mileage cars and then run them until they died, but as I do quite high milages every year, itis not often I keep a car longer than 3 years. This is a bit of a shame when you spend money getting it how you want it. One thing I want to do is test drive a diesel foz and see what I think. With fuel prices getting high, it kinda makes sense, although It would mean losing dual range.

I do quite like the petrol engines as they are well tried and tested. The worst thing I have heard about the diesels is crank shafts breaking on the early ones. Will be a while until I save enough pennies for one of them, but will keep a look out for others.

In the meantime my sf is still going well, but just recently started using A bit of oil. Hoping it is down to short trips over the past few months in cold weather....

Cheers for your comments!

 

[Scooby2]

Barnboy... In another life (BS... Before Subaru) I had a diesel 4wd (not a Subaru)... there are pros and cons in my opinion for petrol or diesel. Fuel economy for the size of the car and towing loads was brilliant, but service costs soon cut down the savings made on fuel.

Maybe I have just been lucky with my Subarus, because none of the 3 I have/had used a notable amount of oil..... but I have always changed the oil every 10,000kms. Old habits die hard with me.

Diesels are brilliant if they have been serviced well, but be sure to have your $s stacked on the side if you have the misfortune of something going wrong!
Regards,

 

[taza]

I bought my Forester with low km for it's age. Around 70,000+ less than most others forsale at the time. It was in immaculate condition inside and out. Serviced every now and again and had only ever been used around town, not thrashed and never been offroad.
It has massive carbon build up and really high engine compression, arodun 240-260PSI on all 4 cylinders, (good compression is around 180-210 depending on the car, motor, age, etc....
Due to just being driven around town and never been revved above 3000rpm (or rarely) this caused to piston rings to suffer from premature wear.
Anyway 18months later a new(used) motor went in my Forester, the same thing happened and now this one runs worse than the other one.

Things like CV boots, bushes and the like will perish. Just from age...

I'd be more inclined to go with a car with more km that this, something average that looks like a good buy :iconwink: