What, Where?

Rally

Rally

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Can anyone name the building and where it is?

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No, but good try.
 
Incorrect
 
You mean this place?

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Mairie Villers Brettonneux. (Town Hall of Villers Brettoneux)
 
Excellent. Now do you know why the Australian flags are flying over the main entrance?
 
I believe it was due to one of the first battles involving tanks, and the Germans originally captured the town. The 4th and 5th AIF Battalion recaptured the town the following morning, and this is part of the way that the people of Villers Brettoneux express gratitude towards the Australians, and they still do today.
 
Almost right Aware. it was the 15th & 13th Brigades (5th Div) that liberated the town On ANZAC Day 1918 after the Germans fought off the British the day before who had been holding the town. The tanks were not really used till the Battle Of Hamel, on the 4th July that year.

Taza, this photo in the local school playground says an awful lot.
Europe2010314.jpg
 
Wow, that's awesome!

How'd you come across this Rally?

Cheers

Bennie
 
This thread stemmed from the other thread on teaching. I was certainly impressed that Aware knew the answers, but it also confirmed my thoughts that people are interested in the past if presented in the right way. This is all just the tip of the iceberg- this part of our history is of the utmost significance. As usual, books and documentaries on this topic are thin on the ground so you have to look at books. I first became aware of this back in the 1980's when I read a book that even then was very old that my dad had- titled "Digger" by John Laffin. He was a digger in the 2nd AIF, his father was in the first AIF and his mother was a nurse in the Great War. It was when he said in his book, despite all that he had been through in the Second World War, that it was worse in the First World War that I was taken back. You normally expect people to say it was worse in their day, etc, so I realised I had much to learn.

There was so little on the Great War though. Only in far more recent times have the books become available and my interest re-ignited. Three books stand out:

1) The Great War- by Les Carlyon
2) John Monash, The Outsider Who Won a War-by Roland Perry
3) Pompey Elliott-by Ross McMullin

There are a number of tour groups that specialise in First World War battle tours. As so many of us had relatives who died in the war, these groups- or some of them- can take you to the grave site of your relatives. The grave sites are beautifully kept. You can go the Australian War Memorial site (I think it is) and track down where relatives are buried, so you know where to go when you get there. There is a list at each cemetery that tells you where the grave is.

Even if you don't have relatives buried there, it is an exceptionally emotional place to go and I doubt you'd leave there without tears in your eyes and a lump in your throat. The emotions range from sadness to anger, and to pride, all in large doses. You feel a real attachment also to the citizens of northern France and of Belgium. Another feeling you get is one of shame- that while the locals have never forgotten, we have and are only now starting to remember- but all the Diggers from the war are now dead.

There were 5 Australian divisions on the Western Front. They defeated 39 German divisions, including some of the best units in the German Army. Making up 5% of the fighting force, they captured nearly a quarter of all territory, prisoners and enemy guns. With the French in mutiny, the British in disarray and even the mighty Canadians out of the fight, at one time it was the tiny AIF that was the only force fighting the Germans.

At another time, when the Germans had their huge spring offensive in 1918, they deliberately avoided the thrust against where the Australians were. Instead, the Australians were quickly moved to plug the gaps and stop the rout which crippled the British 3rd Army and all but destroyed the British 5th Army. It is said that when French refugees discovered the Australians were coming on the scene, they turned around and went back to their homes. They knew the Australians would not let them down- which was proven to be the case. Once the Australians were finally allowed to be united in a single corps, and led by Monash, they were never defeated in the war. It is something to be immensely proud of, that a country of less than 5 million not even 20 years old itself, had men of that age and younger volunteer (no conscripts) to have such an impact on the world that almost 100 years later, they are still honoured in this way, and that towns have streets and schools etc named after the men and the country that before the was, they had never even heard of.

The loss of so many men though has had a direct effect on all of us.

I reckon that is far more interesting than what was happening in Mesopotamia 3000 years ago.
 
Without quoting your entire last post Rally....
Rally said:
I reckon that is far more interesting than what was happening in Mesopotamia 3000 years ago.
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I have to agree with you here & on that mate.

We were never taught or learned anything about the wars (WW1 or WW2 etc) but I wish we were.

Perhaps that is why I hated history so much (& thus failed you could say) when I was at school.
All our history classes consisted of was of early Greek & Roman times from thousands of years ago & it was soooo boring.

Regards
Mr Turbo
 
Especially for kids. That sort of history should come later in one's lives.
 
To be honest, I only knew where it was because the building in picture looked familiar. I was there in January of this year, and whilst I was in France, it was the most important thing for me to go to the Western Front. It was as you say emotional, but one thing that amazed me was that with all the books and things you read, they never explain the magnitude of the Western Front. It is not until you see it in real life, that you realise the sheer magnitude of the battles. The trip to the Western Front (and as far as Fromelles) really did put the whole war into perspective. As you drive along and see the markers placed on the road stating the front line on this date, you'd be amazed to watch it move only a few kilometres over 3-4 months. And then when you include the conditions, it really is astonishing what the soldiers, even on the other side, went through. It was -11c when Dad and I were there, and I couldn't imagine what that would be like in a trench combined with mud and snow. Those in the trenches really did it tough.

I was another student that didn't enjoy History, and it's not until now that I have done more research into both WW1 and WW2 that I have developed more of an interest in it.


Rally, have you read 'Somme Mud', by E.P.F Lynch? Essentially a journal written by an Australian Digger during the war that he wrote out properly when he got home. An excellent book to read.

Just a couple more photos from my trip this year:

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A visit to this memorial really did demonstrate the waste of life that occurred during the battle of the Somme. This was the Thiepval Memorial, dedicated to the Missing of the Somme, those men who had fallen but had no known grave. there are over 72000 names on each of the pillars around the base of the memorial.


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Not the worlds greatest photo, but this was the plaque on the outside of the school in Villers Brettoneux, which is also a very good museum to go to as well.
 
Rally said:
Almost right Aware. it was the 15th & 13th Brigades (5th Div) that liberated the town On ANZAC Day 1918 after the Germans fought off the British the day before who had been holding the town. The tanks were not really used till the Battle Of Hamel, on the 4th July that year.
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Aha. I've learnt more from this post (if you exclude the visit to the Western Front) than I ever did in a History class.
 
It is fantastic that you visited the Western Front- well done. I made a promise to myself that the best way I could honour the dead was to make people aware of what they died for, and to encourage them to visit the Western Front as well. I very much wish to go back again as my first visit was pretty rushed. When I was there in 2010, the new Fromelles cemetery was being built but almost nothing was known in Australia. Within months of my return, it had become news and it is now pleasing to see that the ANZAC ceremonies are being held at both ANZAC Cove and Villers Brettenoux. I cannot encourage more emphatically for anyone with an interest in this to do a bit of research, and go and do what Aware and I and an increasing number of Australians are doing and visit the Western Front. It will be no holiday, but it will be amongst the most fulfilling things you have ever done.
 
Very interesting. Great you know so much of our history Rally & Aware :iconwink:

Rally said:
Europe2010314.jpg
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Woohoo :monkeydance:

Rally said:
Once the Australians were finally allowed to be united in a single corps, and led by Monash, they were never defeated in the war. It is something to be immensely proud of, that a country of less than 5 million not even 20 years old itself, had men of that age and younger volunteer (no conscripts) to have such an impact on the world that almost 100 years later, they are still honoured in this way, and that towns have streets and schools etc named after the men and the country that before the was, they had never even heard of.
Click to expand...

We certainly make a great impact for such a global minnow, then and now.

It often amazes me how well we do in sports compared with countries with massive populations and budgets. The comparison between sport and war is more than trivial

I reckon that is far more interesting than what was happening in Mesopotamia 3000 years ago.
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???
 
You need to have read the teachers thread I think
 
Rally said:
You need to have read the teachers thread I think
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All very moving, Rally.

And maybe also read some bits of the Bible (this from a devout practising atheist ... ).

e.g. From memory:

"Greater love than this hath no man, than that he lay down his life for his friends"

Gospel according to St John, IIRC ...
Can't be bothered dragging out one of my Bibles to check.

Most of the stuff on the Internet appears to be from the "New English Bible" which destroys the poetry of the King James version, while adding little or nothing in return, just IMHO, of course ...

No offence intended to any who are Christians, and disagree with my views; they are just that, my views - as their views are theirs.
 
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