Improving Forester Sand Performance (MY10, XT, 5spd)

[Barrsy]

Hi All,

I am looking to get a thread focussed on the best bang for buck sand performance improving mods.

I'm running a MY10 forester XT 5spd manual and although I find this a fun car and able to most of what I want from it, I would love to get a bit more sand performance. Most of my time is either spent on the highway or picking out a nice secluded beach campsite with the camper trailer on back. With this in mind I'd prefer to keep to mods that maintain driveability rather than massive lift kits etc... As a disclaimer I don't want an auto or another car thanks.

Here's a list of potential mods, some from good / bad experiences and some from the grapevine, in a rough bang for buck order. I'd love to get some input and make improvements to this:

1.
IMPROVEMENT AREA: Tyre footprint / traction
DETAIL: Buy a compressor (or just a gauge) so you can let down the tyres
OPTION 1: Super cheap auto $50-$100
OPTION 2: ARB / Other $150+
COMMENTS: Going down to about 12PSI gets a great sand performance improvement an it's easy! Cheaper compressors work fine, but you could be there a while and if you kill it you'll be limping along until you find a petty station.

2.
IMPROVEMENT AREA: Traction Control
DETAIL: Turn off VDC on the sand as it just doesn't work here
OPTION 1: Pull out the fuse (the traction control button doesn't do it)
OPTION 2: Setup a some cable and a switch in the car to make it easir
COMMENTS: It'a 30amp fuse far left under the bonnet.

3.
IMPROVEMENT AREA: Recovery
DETAIL: Buy a snatch strap and bring a mate in another car
OPTION 1: Hardware store / supercheap $50
OPTION 2: ARB / other $50+
COMMENTS: When your stuck sometimes a mate pulling you out is the only way. A nice long strap can mean the other car has more chance of getting away from the dodgy area. You could look at a winch instead, but there aint often good options to hook up to on the sand unless you want to bury an anchor.

4.
IMPROVEMENT AREA: Recovery / Traction
DETAIL: Something to shove under the tyres to give you grip or lift you out.
OPTION 1: Maxtraxx are frickin good ~$300
OPTION 2: Whatever you can find
COMMENTS: Maxtraxx aint real cheap, but work a hell of a lot better than shoving random objects under the tyres and seem on top of other made for the job options I've seen.

5.
IMPROVEMENT AREA: Reliability / Protection
DETAIL: Some of the plastics especially under the sump are pretty average for sand.
OPTION 1: Aluminium sump guard - subaextreme ~$400?
OPTION 2: I think there's others out there
COMMENTS: Haven't replaced mine yet, but it's damaged

6.
IMPROVEMENT AREA: Reliability/ Gearing
DETAIL: Driving on sand seems to take it out of the clutch / transmission.
OPTION 1: Upgrade the clutch; Exedy ~$1300 fitted
OPTION 2: Lower the gear ratio; Scorpion low ratio gear set
COMMENTS: This has been a problem area for myself, which I believe was driven by not turning off traction control, not letting down tyre pressure enough and towing. I did my clutch at ~30000kms and upgraded to a heavier duty (WRX) clutch which is a bit of pain for pedal weight in the city. How have others found the Exedy clutch or a lower range gear set as these both sound like better options? The theory goes that multiple plate clutches give better grip for less pressure, but there doesn't seem to be any street, forester suitable versions of these?

7.
IMPROVEMENT AREA: Clearance
DETAIL: Lift the beast up a bit, a bit of clearance can help in soft, sinking sand.
OPTION 1: Subtle solutions lift kit $?
OPTION 2: King Springs $?
OPTION 3: ??
COMMENTS: No experience here. Heard lifts can accelerate wear of suspensions components due to camber change etc... Any recommendations for a little bit of lift?

8.
IMPROVEMENT AREA: Clearance / Tyre Footprint / Traction
DETAIL: Increase the tyre profile -> this will enable a bigger footprint when pressure is let down? Upgrade the 17" x 225 x 55 to 60's, 65's?
OPTION 1: Yokohoma's
OPTION 2: Potenza's & multiple others
COMMENTS: Anyone got some info on what size we can get away with with no or limited rubbing? Slight lift may help here.

9.
IMPROVEMENT AREA: Others welcome....
DETAIL:
OPTION 1:
OPTION 2:
COMMENTS:

Cheers

 

[taza]

Hi Barrsy, welcome to ORS.com There is heaps of good advice people on here that many people can give you about your vehicle and offroading.

I can help you heaps with sand driving as I live about a 30second drive from a heap of dunes and beach. I get plenty of oppertunities to get out and through the car around on there.

I will answer some of your questions by the numbers you ahve there.

1: Airing down makes a 80+% difference in sand. Unless rock hard ALWAYS air down. You might be able to push the car through some deep stuff with tight tires but there is a good chance you will get stuck aswell as putting more pressure on your whole car.
15-16psi is good to run all the time in sand, when it starts to get real soft and boggy down to 10psi is fine but be careful not to roll the tyre off the rim

3: A snatch strap is a very good idea along with a distribution strap. For a Subaru ALWAYS use a distribution strap when recovering or being recovered. As they don't have an actual chassis it can cause damage. For example I got pulled out of a bogged position because I went down a motorbike track on some dunes and got stuck for 7 hours. Then when I was being recovered by a Rodeo I didn't use a distribution strap between the two front recovery points (putting all the strain on one part of the foz) and ripped the front end of my car apart where the radiator and tow point are :sad: You don't want to do that!
You can use just the snatch strap from the rear of the car but use the tow bar, NOT the tow ball!!!

Maxtrax work very well and can save many hours of digging, especially when your alone. Here is a video of me using mine with my 2001 Forester Non Turbo Manual.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6llmuDV1G8"]Subaru Forester using Maxtrax - YouTube[/ame]

Have a look at this post of mine. The difference using them to not using them while pulling my boat out of the water on softish sand.

https://offroadsubarus.com/showpost.php?p=32170&postcount=5

They are worth the $300 I reckon. Before I had them though I used planks of wood which were effective. But they are heavy and the traction even with grooves grinded into them isn't anywhere near as good.

I find its alway good to be prepaired. Then you are you never seem to get stuck or if you do its usually a quick and easy recovery becauase you have the gear compared to not being prepared. It isn't neccessary to always have a car with you and most of the time a few hours of digging will get you out :ebiggrin:

5: A metal sumpguard is a very good idea. You can make your own but the Subaxtreme ones are great. I have one, its bent and cracked but better that than a new engine being needed if you damage something. Plus they keep a heap of the dirt out of the engine bay. The plastic one will come off if you do abit of sand driving. Also the reason I went with a Subaxtreme one is because it is airbag compliant so there are no issues there with insurance incase of an accident :iconwink:

6: Since you only have a single range gearbox in your XT you can't have the scorpion lowrange gearset. 60% reduction gearing from Hi Range. Well you could swap the box over and all the rest but its a really big and expensive job. Plus all the toque and power when your turbo spools up or if your dropping the clutch could break it. People ahev had turbos and dual rnage gearboxes together but they aren't designed for them and of course can break. But like anything if you look after it it will look after you :biggrin: This is really the last thing to consider and if you do it you would want to be holding onto the car for a while to get your monies worth/use out of it. I would be considering other mods before hand then decide if its neccessary. Most of the time hi range gearing is good enough even with my 2.0l non turbo Subie in sand

Exedy heavy duty clutchs are great, I reciently replaced mine at 148,000km in my foz due to burning it out offroad. Yes there was abit of white smoke in the process You shouldn't have to worry about another for for atleast 100,000km even with offroad work. Just remember with sand driving to get off the clutch as quickly as possible, especialy don't ride it :iconwink: But you learn after a while. try not to spin your wheels too when taking off in sand.

7: Clearance. I have 2.5 inch of clearance with my foz or about 70-75mm over stock under the WHOLE car, diffs, engine , body, etc...

I went with 1" (25mm) Subtle Solution lift blcoks and raised heavy duty springs. The other .5" is from slightly larger Geolander AT-S tyres. The clearance makes a huge difference in the sand, especially with heap rutty tracks. I am yet to be properly bogged in the sand now with my lift. 2" makes a huge difference so I would highly recommend doing some kind of lift if you are planning to do a heap of sand driving. Also as shown in my videos, once you start to dig down in the sand, ie.. me towing a boat out of the water the extra clearance helps otherwise with stock you might just belly out and be really stuck. 2" does not require any engineering certs or what not anhd insurance companieas are usually fine with it. It won't have much affect on handling or the ride either.

Just my 2 cents worth though.

8: Tyres make a huge difference. A heap of guys reckon with highway tyres are the best on sand as they spread more, don't dig in and help float. But I have found that my Yokohama Geolander AT-S tyres work about 50% better than my old Bridgestone Dueler highway tyres. But thats me. Also if you have highway tyres they won't get traction on Maxtrax or bog planks or the likes. The more tread/aggressiveness helps heaps.



Hope some of this info helps.

PS. its a good idea to add where you live and your vehicle specs on your profile

Taza

 

[Davidov]

7.
IMPROVEMENT AREA: Clearance
DETAIL: Lift the beast up a bit, a bit of clearance can help in soft, sinking sand.
OPTION 1: Subtle solutions lift kit $?
OPTION 2: King Springs $?
OPTION 3: ??
COMMENTS: No experience here. Heard lifts can accelerate wear of suspensions components due to camber change etc... Any recommendations for a little bit of lift?

There will be no issues going with 2-3" of lift. Lift is one of the most important mods you can ever do to a subaru to improve offroading performance.

1" lift blocks and raised king springs will net you a little over 2" of lift and will make an enormous change. Or 2" lift blocks and any combination of lift blocks and springs.

 

[mr turbo]

G'day Barrsy & to ORS.

I'll also try to help with answers to some of your questions.

1: Compressors
Don't get a cheap one. Spend a few extra dollars for a good one. The last thing you want is for it to break down when you need it most.

3: Recovery Gear
You will need some "D" Shackles to attach the strap to both your car & the rescue car. With the "D" Shackles make sure that they are RATED D Shackles.

5: Sump Guard
The SubaXtreme Sump Guard is probably you best bet, as they are airbag compliant. But for a cheaper alternative you could always make your own.

7: Clearance
Having a combination of both strut tops & raised springs will work well (thats what I have) This will give you about 2" of lift. And there will be little to no difference in the way your Forry handles.

8: Clearance / Tyre Footprint / Traction (Tyres)
A lot of people on here are running the Geolander AT-S tyres (myself included) & really like them.

Just my 2 cents worth & I hope it helps.

Regards
Mr Turbo

 

[Barrsy]

Great responses thanks.

I reckon I'm up for the strut tops and as the tyres will be needing a change shortly they'll get an upsize.

I also appreciate the tip of the subaextreme being airbag compliant, I might save the home made mods for when the warranty is over.

I could also see the potential in the comment of the offroad / agressive tread tyres for gripping the maxtrax, I've found my road tyres are generally fine in the sand, but I've had trouble getting them to grip onto the trax in the mud. Better solution would not to need them at all

Taza, what's the feel of the Exedy clutch like compared to stock, do you notice any extra pedal pressure? My current clutch was done in a hurry so I put my trust in the locals to sort me out and I've turned out with heavy clutch movement and some shudder.

 

[carljwnc]

Howdy and Barrsy!!!

Looks like the good advice is flowin' already, and I haven't done any sand driving myself so I'll leave it to the experts.

 

[Shiv]

An alternative to MaxTrax is the X-Trax. I bought these instead of the MaxTrax because they fold away and consume less space.

Here's a video using it on a friends car:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgXh_3fAGoA"]Subaru Outback recovery - YouTube[/ame]

 

[taza]

Shiv I have heard both good and bad about X-Trax. Have you had them scrunch up under the tyre/s and not pull you out? Ive seen on youtube where they didn't work they just folded up under the wheel. I through my Maxtrax on the roof so space isn't an issue. They are solid and seem to grip well so no complaints The X-Track do add a good 15kg though.
...and with the X-Trax you have to dig away from the wheels to get them under somewhat. With the Maxtrax I just jam them between the wheel and dirt, sometimes removing alittle bit of sand so they dont rub on the bumpers but I think the Maxtrax are easier to use.

Everyone to their own though and what ever works to get you out!

I have seen this video before, its a good demo of them being used. Reminds me of Dave my mate with a 03 OB like the one in the vid and myself with the foz. Along with the stupid things and bog situations weve been in

Taza

 

[d_generate]

Meh, bread crates are free and 4 of them give you about 1.5m of track at each of all 4 wheels, probably only weigh about 5gk all up too and fit across the cargo area taking up little room :biggrin:

 

[Shiv]

I haven't experienced that as yet, Taza. They've saved me a couple times, including once when I was by myself and really bogged in the middle of nowhere. Certainly given its flexible nature, there is that risk it could just fold up and not get you out, but for basic off-road applications, I think it'll work 9/10 times.

I think if I were too do some serious long distance travel, I'd consider getting a MaxTrax for a bit of extra insurance. Most of the trips I do are day trips with other people so the X-Trax is more for practicality and convenience.

Would be interesting to see how serious an off-roader the thread starter is to see what suits him best.

 

[taza]

I haven't experienced that as yet, Taza. They've saved me a couple times, including once when I was by myself and really bogged in the middle of nowhere. Certainly given its flexible nature, there is that risk it could just fold up and not get you out, but for basic off-road applications, I think it'll work 9/10 times.

I think if I were too do some serious long distance travel, I'd consider getting a MaxTrax for a bit of extra insurance. Most of the trips I do are day trips with other people so the X-Trax is more for practicality and convenience.

Would be interesting to see how serious an off-roader the thread starter is to see what suits him best.

Ok. Well if other people are around then its nothing to worry about if they don't work. If I had the money and was going travelling with just the one car I reckon I would have both just to be safe. Both have their advantages and disadvantages :iconwink:

Yeah this thread is coming along with some good info!

 

[Barry]

Shiv I have heard both good and bad about X-Trax. Have you had them scrunch up under the tyre/s and not pull you out? Ive seen on youtube where they didn't work they just folded up under the wheel. I through my Maxtrax on the roof so space isn't an issue. They are solid and seem to grip well so no complaints The X-Track do add a good 15kg though.
...and with the X-Trax you have to dig away from the wheels to get them under somewhat. With the Maxtrax I just jam them between the wheel and dirt, sometimes removing alittle bit of sand so they dont rub on the bumpers but I think the Maxtrax are easier to use.

Everyone to their own though and what ever works to get you out!

I have seen this video before, its a good demo of them being used. Reminds me of Dave my mate with a 03 OB like the one in the vid and myself with the foz. Along with the stupid things and bog situations weve been in

Taza

I have the Bushranger tracks, and they are certainly heavy and take upo a poop load of space in the vehicle. However, they worked fine when I bogged myself and the kids on the Merty merty track in November 2009. (If you look at the banner pic with the shovel leaning against the Outback you might be able to pick out the tracks back behind the car, which had just driven out on them. LOL )

Mine were the original design, which are only flat square bars, so I think the 'series II' version, with the lugs, should work even better.

My pref would certainly be the Max Trax, but they were a bit exe for mr at the time. BOTH options would be ideal!

 

[NachaLuva]

What about those grooved rubber mats like you get in swimming pools? You could anchor 1 end with dirty big peg so it doesnt bunch up..