Rear Diff 'wiki'

Barry

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Melbourne, Vic.
Introduction:
After the great job Skender did consolidating the info about off-roading I thought it might be useful to have a similar distillation of info about rear diffs, for those who are thinking of improving their Off Road abilities.

I'd suggest that those 'in the know' post info as new posts. I'll then transfer it to Post #2, immediately below this 'intro' post, so it is right up-front.

This post would need to / should contain for each diff:

  1. OEM Model and Year:
  2. Diff ratio
  3. Whether 'open', 'LSD' or 'other'.
  4. Which other models it is compatible with.
  5. Any known limitations / 'issues'.

Post #3 can be a FAQ for principles about / differences between the various diffs.

Post #4
will contain a list of 'altered state' rear diff set ups on members cars, together with brief comments as to how successful it is and what else, other than the diff, needed to be 'altered' to make it work.
 
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OK, a few definitions, for those who am as confused as I was, and probably should still be!

TYPES of DIFFerential Drives

Open Diff
Does not permit any of power to continue to be transmitted to one of the (rear) when the other loses traction.
OEM Fitment to:

LSD:
Limited Slip Differential.
Allows for a degree of power to continue to be transmitted to one of the (rear) when the other reduced traction.
Nothing to do with either the Beatles or Timothy Leary.
OEM Fitment to:

TYPES of LSD

  • Clutch LSD
A diff that can be locked, using air or electro magnets, so that both wheels continue to recieve equal motive power. Technically possible however more difficult than for most 4x4 / AWD vehicles, due to the small dimensions of the diff. The 'Holy Grail' which some of us continue to hope for.
OEM Fitment to:

  • Viscous Coupling LSD
OEM Fitment to:
  • Helical LSD
OEM Fitment to:
Auto-locker diff

A diff which locks via centrifical force as a result of the loss of traction to one wheel, which is triggered at a set torque level.

Welded Diff:

Diff internals modded so that it is permanently locked. ONLY suitable for early Front wheel drive / part time 4x4 Subies, where the rear drive is not engaged 'on road'. If the transmission to the rear wheels is engaged on-road the diff, tyres and other transmission components will be destroyed when trying to go around corners.

OTHER DEFINITIONS

Torque vs Power:

The term 'torque' rather than 'power' is to be preferred when referring to the operation of Diffs, as it is torque distribution that the different types of differential directly manipulate. (On the other hand, power is a derived quantity, in this case a product of the torque in a shaft and its rate of rotation.)
 
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In recent years, Subaru have over their range used 2 different sized rear diffs- R160 for just about everything except for late model (02 onwards) STI's. I'm talking ADM here, as the JDM cars might be slightly different. The WRX till 2002 and Forester run viscous rear diffs- but I am not sure if the MY08 onwards WRX does. The Liberty apparently runs an open rear diff, and if that is true then non turbo Imprezas are probably the same. Not sure about the Outback. The V5 and V6 STI run viscous rear diffs, but are the 4.4 ratio- the same as the MY02 onwards WRX which are Suretrac. As for ratios, I only really know the WRX's. From 1994-2001 they were 3.9.

From MY02 WRX , they went from the viscous rear diff to Suretrac. From MY05 STI onwards, they ran helical rear diffs and these have better traction than the viscous and the Suretrac. Better again is the plated diff but these have not been offered on ADM cars but are available on the after market. In 2006 the ratios changed in line with the 2.5 litre engine to 3.9.

None of these diffs are locking diffs in the offroad sense. The STI diffs are designed to be better for high performance, not offroading per se, but they will be better than standard. There are a lot more aftermarket bits for R180 diffs but again, these parts were meant originally for high performance use.

If you wish to change the ratio of your rear diff, you will need to not only change the front diff, but take into account the drop down gear in the back of the gearbox that runs off the centre diff. As I have mentioned elsewhere, if you want to change from R160 to R180, you will need to replace the following parts: tailshaft flange or tailshaft, rear diff, rear driveshafts, rear hubs including handbrake and cable, rear discs and possibly rear calipers.

I'm not 100% certain on some of that- please correct me where appropriate.
 
I think you'll find most 94 - 96 WRX's were 4.1 box & diff & the 97 on were a 3.9 box with a 3.54 step down rear viscous diff.
Why nothing about front diffs, I recently sold my plated STI diff (new) which I was told were crap for a daily driver for $1,500 and got a helical one landed at my door from the States for $480.
 
Hi Barry - Great idea for a thread. Here are a few points for addition/clarification of post 3.


  • Strictly speaking, what is fitted to the rear of some Subarus is a 'viscous coupling LSD', not a plain 'viscous coupling'*.
  • In addition to viscous coupling LSDs, there are some other types of LSD used which should be listed as well (eg clutch, helical).
  • The subheading 'LSD' should be omitted. Instead, the different LSD types should have their own sub-headings as they each operate quite differently.
  • The term 'locker' is loosely used to refer to both the manual and auto locking diffs. These should each have their own sub-heading.
  • Accordingly, as a starting point, my suggestion for the list of sub-headings is:
    • Open diff
    • Viscous coupling LSD
    • Clutch LSD
    • Helical LSD
    • Auto-locker diff
    • Manual locking diff
    • Welded diff
  • The term 'torque' rather than 'power' should be used as it is torque distribution that the different types of differential directly manipulate. (On the other hand, power is a derived quantity, in this case a product of the torque in a shaft and its rate of rotation.)
*A 'viscous coupling' (as opposed to a 'viscous coupling LSD') is just the fluid coupling unit itself. A viscous coupling is what is placed inside a differential to link the two driveshafts to create a viscous coupling LSD. This is what is fitted to the rear of some Subarus. Viscous couplings have also been used in vehicle transmissions to create on-demand type four wheel drive systems. For example, the first generation Land Rover Freelander had a fixed coupling to the front and used a viscous coupling to create on-demand drive to the rear. As viscous couplings are not used in the rear of vehicles except as part of viscous coupling LSDs, they should be omitted from this thread and only 'viscous coupling LSDs' included.
 
I think you'll find most 94 - 96 WRX's were 4.1 box & diff & the 97 on were a 3.9 box with a 3.54 step down rear viscous diff.
Why nothing about front diffs, I recently sold my plated STI diff (new) which I was told were crap for a daily driver for $1,500 and got a helical one landed at my door from the States for $480.

Was going to comment about front diffs in post #1.
  • Am concentrating on rear diffs, because they are far less difficult to replace.
  • The ratios in any instance will be consistent with thaos for the rear - probably except where there is a 'step down' final drive gear to the rear diff. [I think?... let me know if correct please, anyone who knows?].
  • A separate thread for front diffs is an excellent idea, happy for anyone who knows about them to start same, I have prob. bitten off more than enough to chew already for the moment! :ebiggrin:
 
As far as I know, all the boxes have this gear at the back of the gearbox, but that ratio itself can vary. I know with the 6 speed boxes, the assembly itself varies between DCCD and non DCCD. The same may be true with 5 speed boxes as some JDM cars had a 5 speed DCCD and so did the 22B- some of which Subaru Australia imported but I very much doubt anyone on ORS would be sourcing them for any offroad use! Bottom line is that if you are changing diffs for a change in ratio- you must change the front diff, taking into account the step down gear.
 
You're probably right about the ratios. Good info on the first link- unfortunately my 6 speed box is not on it and I could not get the second link to work using IE or Firefox. With a 5 speed the final drive ratio will always be an issue. The 3.9 is much better for cruising, but the 4.44 certainly helps keeping it on the boil and keen to accelerate. Which is why a 6 speed might do it all better overall. We shall see.
 
Hmm, I've only ever used Firefox and never had a prob opening it for years.

EDIT.........Won't open on mine now either though it did earlier so must be a prob their end, try later.

Another edit, it just opened, this may help ???????
Model Range Trans. Code 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Rev. T .R. F. D. Center Diff. Type Front Diff. Type Notes Application Notes 6MT Transmission --


JDM Impreza WRX STi MY01-02 TY856WB1AA 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 1.062 0.842 3.545 1.000 3.900 Viscous (4kgf) Open
(also Prodrive Style & STi Limited MY02)

JDM Impreza WRX STi & STi RA MY01-02 TY856WB1CA 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 1.062 0.842 3.545 1.000 3.900 Viscous (4kgf) A.P. Suretrac
RA STi w/ 17 in. wheel (also Prodrive Style & STi Limited MY02)

JDM Impreza WRX STi RA MY01 TY856WB1BA 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 1.062 0.842 3.545 1.000 3.900 DCCD (45:55) A.P. Suretrac RA STi w/ 16 in. wheel

JDM Impreza WRX STi RA Spec C MY02 TY856WB2GA 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 1.062 0.842 3.545 1.000 3.900 Viscous (4kgf) A.P. Suretrac w/ external transmission cooler w/ 17 in. wheel (also S202)

JDM Impreza WRX STi RA Spec C MY02 TY856WB2DA 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 1.062 0.842 3.545 1.000 3.900 DCCD (45:55) A.P. Suretrac w/ external transmission cooler w/ 16 in. wheel JDM Impreza WRX STi MY03 TY856WB3AA 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 1.062 0.842 3.545 1.000 3.900 Viscous (4kgf) Open

JDM Impreza WRX STi MY03 TY856WB3KA 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 1.062 0.842 3.545 1.000 3.900 DCCD (35:65) A.P. Suretrac automatic DCCD system

JDM Impreza WRX STi Spec C MY03 TY856WB3JA 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 1.062 0.842 3.545 1.000 3.900 DCCD (35:65) A.P. Suretrac automatic DCCD on 17 in. wheel only

JDM Impreza WRX STi MY04 TY856WB4AA 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 1.062 0.842 3.545 1.000 3.900 Viscous (4kgf) Open

JDM Impreza WRX STi MY04 + V-Limited MY04 TY856WB4KA 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 1.062 0.842 3.545 1.000 3.900 DCCD (35:65) A.P. Suretrac automatic DCCD system

JDM Impreza WRX STi Spec C MY04 TY856WB4JA 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 1.062 0.842 3.545 1.000 3.900 DCCD (35:65) A.P. Suretrac automatic DCCD on 17 in. wheel only

JDM Impreza WRX STI MY05 TY856WB6CA 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 1.062 0.842 3.545 1.000 3.900 Viscous (4kgf) Open

JDM Impreza WRX STI MY05 TY856WB6CA 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 1.062 0.842 3.545 1.000 3.900 Viscous (4kgf) Open

JDM Impreza WRX STi MY05 TY856WB6KA 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 1.062 0.842 3.545 1.000 3.900 DCCD (35:65) A.P.
Suretrac automatic DCCD system

JDM Impreza WRX STi Spec C MY05 TY856WB6JA 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 1.062 0.842 3.545 1.000 3.900 DCCD (35:65) Helical LSD automatic DCCD on 17 in. wheel only

JDM Legacy S401 ?? 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 1.062 0.842 3.545 1.000 3.900 Viscous (4kgf) A.P. Suretrac


US Impreza WRX STi MY04 TY856WH3MA 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 0.971 0.756 3.545 1.000 3.900 DCCD (35:65) A.P. Suretrac automatic DCCD system

US Impreza WRX STi MY04 late TY856WH4MA 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 0.971 0.756 3.545 1.000 3.900 DCCD (35:65) A.P. Suretrac automatic DCCD system

US Impreza WRX STi MY05 TY856WW6MA 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 0.971 0.756 3.545 1.000 3.900 DCCD (35:65) Helical LSD automatic DCCD system / front axle design change


UK/Europe/NZ Impreza WRX STi MY02-04 TY856WN*** 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 0.971 0.756 3.545 1.100 3.900 Viscous (4kgf) A.P. Suretrac
Aus. Impreza WRX STi MY02-04 ?? 3.636 2.375 1.761 1.346 1.062 0.842 3.545 1.000 3.900 Viscous (4kgf) A.P. Suretrac
 
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Barry said:
Welded Diff:

Diff internals modded so that it is permanently locked. ONLY suitable for early Front wheel drive / part time 4x4 Subies, where the rear drive is not engaged 'on road'. If the transmission to the rear wheels is engaged on-road the diff, tyres and other transmission components will be destroyed when trying to go around corners.

Easy on the destruction stuff there barry! Sounds like you're a little trigger happy...

I've had a welded rear diff in my early primarily front wheel drive model subaru. Being independent suspension allows us to drop out one shaft from the rear end, thus opening up the diff.

On the occasions that I didn't do this I did not destroy CV joints, shafts or gearboxes. What happens is you will spin one wheel - generally the inside one - when you corner. At speed you do not feel this unless you're running two tyres of different diameters.

I found this setup to be VERY effective - point and shoot is the motto with this setup. I only removed it due to a trip to the snow where I needed an open diff for the slippery conditions - a welded diff would have induced a loss of traction to the rear end a lot easier than an open diff would have.

If you want to know more about running a welded rear diff and leaving the shafts in with everyday driving, ask Phizinza about it - his little MY sedan ran like this with 27 inch tyres and no issues.

Cheers

Bennie
 
In regards to the welded diff....
You won't break anything right away, it is too easy for the car to over come traction on the ground and slip a wheel first. But as time goes on the stress of running no differential fatigues the metal to the point it becomes very brittle and just snaps out of the blue.
This same thing goes for running older 4WD Subaru's in 4WD on hard surfaces. It won't just go bang the first corner you turn, but it does fatigue the gear set and eventually something will snap. I ran in 4WD in my old Brumby with the "weak" 4 speed for over 2000km on the road. We then stuck that gearbox in my brothers wagon and it got similar treatment. Then that wagon turned into the race wagon (look on youtube under my name to see how hard that car was thrashed over the 3 weekends I raced it). Finally the welded diff broke a stub in that wagon while racing. The next day I was having fun in the sand with it and blew up second gear (locked the box solid, until I done 5 or 6 5000rpm clutch drops and then second gear was no more). 2 hours later and the other rear stub broke, no noises, just fell off haha!

So what I am saying is you won't know how much it is weaking anything until the point comes where it is so fatigued it just breaks instead of slipping. They do last a very long time and a lot of punishment though! (4WD gears and welded rear diffs).


  • Clutch LSD
A diff that can be locked, using air or electro magnets, so that both wheels continue to recieve equal motive power. Technically possible however more difficult than for most 4x4 / AWD vehicles, due to the small dimensions of the diff. The 'Holy Grail' which some of us continue to hope for.
OEM Fitment to:

Auto-locker diff

A diff which locks via centrifical force as a result of the loss of traction to one wheel, which is triggered at a set torque level.



Hope you don't mind but I would like to correct you on these two.

A Clutch pack LSD uses multilayered clutches to create friction between the two output stubs. As the spider gears spin separately from the carrier (i.e you lift a wheel and the power spins just that wheel) the force of the spider gears pushing outwards (trying to come apart) pushes on the clutches and limits slippage between that spider gear and the carrier.

Auto Lockers work much like a ratchet. They really should be called auto unlockers as that is a better description of how they work. When driving in a straigh line (both left and right wheels rotating around at the same pace) the ratchet type side gears that replace your spider gears are locked. What locks these is the drive pin which usually holds two of the spider gears. This pin when driving forces the lockers driver gears into the driven gears. When you turn while the inside wheel is going slower the engine still drives that wheel, but the outside wheel of the turn wants to go faster. What happens here is the driven gear rotates just a little more then the drive pin (which is held to the carrier) causing the driver gear not to be driven by the pin but by the wheel. This allows just enough slack in the ratchet to unlock that driver gear from the driven gear and disengage that wheel from the diff momentarily. This is why when you drive around a corner in a car with an auto locker it goes "click click click" as that wheel spinning faster unlocks itself from the diff.

Hard to explain without pictures and animated diagrams but I gave it a shot!
 
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Thanks Phizinza, very pleased for your clarification, I'll make the changes in the next day or so.
I'm no 'expert', just the scribe for this thread.

All corrections from the technically expert gratefully accepted.
 
Identifying gear ratios of my rear diff...

OK, I have checked my owners manual, the Aus supplement to the manual and the electronic repair manual.
NONE of them have the specs for the ratio of my rear diff. (Well, the electronic thing has 3 different diff versions, including one LSD, but none of them specify the gearing!)

This info must be available SOMEWHERE!?
 
Standard rear diffs on Gen4 Manual N.A. 2.5 Outback?

Was told that aftermarket LSD inserts were available for the Outback rear diff, so made enquiries and received response as follows:

Hi Barry. I’m not sure what a LSD Insert is. Are you replacing an open centre diff with an LSD type? If so what style of LSD are you after Viscous or mechanical?
Your car should already have a Viscous LSD in the rear

I am totally confused bythe part I have highlighted in red. Had understood that the Gen4 Outback rear diff was open? Am I wrong abouit this?

Given that the LSD is oil filled, I had assumed that it was sealed, hence no 'breather', which are required to be extended to the interior of the car for -open?- diffs involved in water crossings???

Can someone please enlighten me?
 
If it's the same as mine, the LSD part is sealed within the diff but the rest of the diff has an oil bath and has a breather.
 
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