Which oil?

Gidday Oscar & Guzzla

oscaroo said:

Yeah, I had a look at that - well, while my car is in warranty i'll follow their overkill service routine, but at the local mechanic who charges less.
My saab has an epic service interval, 2 years or 20000km. Boy am I gonna miss that!

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Is that one of the Saabs that has a Subaru boxer donk in it?

guzzla said:

You need to get out and start enjoying that Forester of yours Ratbag. :biggrin:
It'll never wear out at that rate.

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I have been planning to, but life is what happens while you are planning other things ... Planning to get away in late July or early September now.

My Forester had its 6th birthday in June and only did 18,500km this last year. Nothing like the 57,000km it did in its 2nd year. I always have got the km service interval up long before the time until this last 6 months - still have 3000km to go. I have been wondering how good it is to leave the oil in there longer than the specified time.

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Many of the up-market cars of many brands are now equipped with oil analysis gear that tells you when your oil needs changing. A guy in the USA told me that his new BMW still hasn't recommended his second oil change some 23,000 miles and 25 months out from its initial service. Others said the same sorts of things about the cars they drove that have this technology. Of course, these cars all use fully synthetic oils; as I do.

With Roo2, I observed three attributes in the oil as it aged: 1) Colour; 2) Feel; 3) Smell. All were OK at 24 months and 10,000 Kms. It was also using an unmeasurable amount of oil over that time. This indicates that the rings are terrific in both directions; valve guides ditto; there were no oil leaks: internal or external. This is predicated on there also being no water usage, and no frothing, emulsification or dilution of the sump oil by petrol - these all change the feel, colour and smell of the oil. There was no evidence of any of this occurring.

My Golf has 15,000km or 12 month service intervals and VW specify a special long life oil. It's the same 5w-30 synthetic as the Forester's but must be labeled with a 504-507 long life rating. Not that it's in the Golf for very long. It had its 1st birthday 2 days after the Forester (yeah - 2 registrations at the same time of year wasn't very smart financial planning) and did 40,500km. It goes in for its 3rd service on Thursday. VW have given it fixed price services until 90,000km too and the first 2 cost $290 each although I'm paying a bit less now taking it (and the Forester) to a trustworthy independent.

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Yeah. My 'independent' bloke won Bosch service centre every month of 2013, and for the full year, Australia wide. Ditto Shell servo of the year over the same period. I have used Ross for about 15+ years. I trust him completely and he has never tried to BS me, and has never once charged me as much as I thought he should!

These days I only ever use Shell Helix Ultra FS 5W-40 in both cars. Shell do not categorise their oils as "long life rating". I suspect that it goes with the price ... As Ross said "I only ever put this in Ferraris and the like ... , but it sure won't do your engine any harm.". It doesn't appear to ... :biggrin:.

That Shell Ultra is one of the recommended ones for VW / Audi.
Talking of going the distance between oil changes, my brother-in-law's friend with a BMW 120i had still not changed his original oil at 60,000km + because the service indicator had still not recommended it. Could ould you imagine the condition of that oil? He takes no care of his cars at all. And that was with a lot of driving around the city. Some people simply do not deserve to own something like that.

guzzla said:

That Shell Ultra is one of the recommended ones for VW / Audi.
Talking of going the distance between oil changes, my brother-in-law's friend with a BMW 120i had still not changed his original oil at 60,000km + because the service indicator had still not recommended it. Could ould you imagine the condition of that oil? He takes no care of his cars at all. And that was with a lot of driving around the city. Some people simply do not deserve to own something like that.

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Or maybe he does ... :iconwink: :lol: :rotfl:

The latest crop of Beemers (about 2005 onwards) that I have seen on the news pranged, have been spread all over the countryside. Not what I would expect from a car with their long reputation for build quality and engineering.

But you are right. Whatever the gauge says, I wouldn't leave any oil in any car for that mileage. What I am saying is that modern oils in modern engines will do their job properly for a lot longer than the car companies would have us believe. They tell us these things to allow them to engage in over-servicing, at a big cost to us and to the environment.

It is sad to see that commitment to quality go out the window (or all over the countryside ... ). It happens though.

Many previously well built, high quality goods lose it and start producing junk; and others who have previously produced junk start producing high quality, well built goods. Not just cars either, by a long chalk.

BTW, be careful about Shell's labelling. Some of their Helix range is not fully synthetic. Shell Helix Ultra oils are all fully synthetic. Shell specifically mention that Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 meets the "special" requirements of VW 502.00 505.00 - whatever the heck that means! See here:
https://www.shell.com.au/products-s...rs/find-right-car-oils/helix-ultra/ultra.html

VW aren't the only ones doing this garbage.
What's wrong with using the standard classification/s that have been in use for many, many decades?
Are these companies trying to make out that their products have "special" requirements that can only be met by having their products serviced at their dealers, and at their (inflated) prices ... ?

that 502-505 rating was from a few years ago and has been superceded by the 504-507 rating. It is supposed to cover the 12 month service interval instead of the 6 month one.

I'm with you re the pressure to stick to the manufacturer's specified servicing timetable but it has never affected me as I run up the kms too quickly but there are many others who need to get rid of what is probably perfectly acceptable oil just to keep their manufacturer's warranty.

One thing that has me wondering - my Forester had never shown any visible use of oil up to 250,000km but when I checked it at 258,500km recently I noticed it had used 0.5L so it had it's first top up. It's done another 1000km since then and hasn't used any and will be serviced in another 3000km but I don't know whether it has really used any oil since the last service as I don't remember checking on the level then. And I have become so used to not having to check it I don't really know if it is because it was not just filled to the correct level. If it has started to use a bit it doesn't really worry me as it could be expected to start sometime with the mileage it has on it. I also really don't know if it is getting to exactly same Subaru branded Castrol Edge 5w-30 full synthetic oil it was getting when serviced at Wippells Subaru. I noticed that Advanced Service Centre were using Castrol Edge Titanium but don't know the viscosity rating. A 5w-40 rating like you are using would make sense at this stage of its life

Gidday Guzzla

Probably a wise move to move it up to 10W-40 FS. It doesn't matter how good the engine design and manufacture; or how good the oil. An engine with 250+K Kms on it is not a spring chicken any more!

Interestingly, the Owner's Manual for our MY06 2006 recommends 5W-30 FS for turbo models, but only up to an absolute maximum of 40°C! From -20°C to 40+°C, 10W-30 or 10W-40 FS is recommended. I can tell you which one I would be using in your car - 10W-40 FS; without the slightest hesitation!

After all, how often does it get down to -20°C in Toowoomba these days?
I can't recall it ever getting quite as low as that in the 4 years I went to school there back in the 1950s ... :iconwink:.

Once Roo2 gets over the 200+K Kms mark, I will be putting 10W-40 FS in its engine too.

G'day again Guzzla

guzzla said:

One thing that has me wondering - my Forester had never shown any visible use of oil up to 250,000km but when I checked it at 258,500km recently I noticed it had used 0.5L so it had it's first top up. It's done another 1000km since then and hasn't used any and will be serviced in another 3000km but I don't know whether it has really used any oil since the last service as I don't remember checking on the level then. And I have become so used to not having to check it I don't really know if it is because it was not just filled to the correct level. If it has started to use a bit it doesn't really worry me as it could be expected to start sometime with the mileage it has on it. I also really don't know if it is getting to exactly same Subaru branded Castrol Edge 5w-30 full synthetic oil it was getting when serviced at Wippells Subaru. I noticed that Advanced Service Centre were using Castrol Edge Titanium but don't know the viscosity rating. A 5w-40 rating like you are using would make sense at this stage of its life

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A horrible thought has just occurred to me. Wippels may have been using 5W-40 FS, and the new people you are using may well have put the recommended oil in it - 5W-30 FS. That would account for the sudden onset of oil usage, no matter how minimal.
If it's measurable, it's not minimal in my books.

However, as you say, it may not have been filled all the way to the top either. That's a rational explanation also. It would also account for it using no oil since you last checked it.

When you have it serviced next, make sure that you specify what oil, what viscosity and what brand you want in it to the people doing the service. Ross knows what I require, and does it. It's written in his service records for both cars.

I always check the oil the next morning after servicing.
No matter who does it, accidents can and do happen ...

Back in the 1970s, I was changing the oil in the Kimberley after work and before setting off to drive from Adelaide to Brisbane when I noticed this pool of something around my work boots (it was fairly late in the evening). I had forgotten to put the sump plug back in! Fortunately I noticed it early on, as the flaming thing took 19 pints of oil (engine and gearbox used the same oil). poop happens!!

Ratbag said:

G'day again Guzzla

When you have it serviced next, make sure that you specify what oil, what viscosity and what brand you want in it to the people doing the service. Ross knows what I require, and does it. It's written in his service records for both cars.

I always check the oil the next morning after servicing.

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So do I - in fact I've sometimes lifted the bonnet in the service car park and checked before driving home. But this last time I don't remember doing it and think it might have been because I was in a different routine by having it serviced at a different place and talking to the mechanic about replacing the springs and struts.

I think I will just go and buy my own oil from Repco here in Toowoomba and get the usual 10% RACQ membership discount and maybe an extra discount if one of my ex students serves me. My handbook says the same as yours about the viscosities but I've always left it at the 5w-30 that I'm certain Wippells has been using because it has always caused no concern with using any oil. It will never be driven at -20C or even below -7C but it will be driven above 40C+. Just before New Year it was 46.5C on a return trip to Goondiwindi but that was in the Golf. btw I watched the oil temp readout in it indicate 108C in those conditions where it would normally indicate around 99C in temperatures around the low 30's and 95C when it is in the mid teens like now.

I've bought the Shell 5W-40FS for $50/5L at repco on special.

From my Batphone

Ratbag said:

Back in the 1970s, I was changing the oil in the Kimberley after work and before setting off to drive from Adelaide to Brisbane when I noticed this pool of something around my work boots (it was fairly late in the evening). I had forgotten to put the sump plug back in! Fortunately I noticed it early on, as the flaming thing took 19 pints of oil (engine and gearbox used the same oil). poop happens!!

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Or you get the other issue where the Dealership overfills the sump by more than 1L the day before you set sail from Brissy to Melbourne.

This happened to me twice at the same Dealership even after they rang me for Customer Feedback the first time and I advised them of the first instance. They rang me the second time and I told them what I thought of their Dealership.
I took my Suby down to Brendale from that day on despite it being a 1 hour drive, at least the work was done properly and was cheaper too.

subyroo said:

I took my Suby down to Brendale from that day on despite it being a 1 hour drive, at least the work was done properly and was cheaper too.

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Boxer Service at Brendale would have to be the most trustworthy and knowledgeable Subaru service providers around. If it was more convenient for me I'd be using them too. They installed the blanking plates for my secondary air pump delete. My brother has used them to service his 03 Forester and I've never heard a negative thing about them. That said, I'm thankful to have convenient access to Advanced Service Centre here and the bonus is they specialize in VW too, which suits me owning a Golf also.

btw Where can I find out how much Subaru are charging for their fixed price servicing? VW publish the 6 service costs (every 15,000km till 90,000km or 6 years) for each of their models, down to which engine and gearbox in each model range on their web site but I can't find anything on the Subaru web site.

Regarding Oils generally

Regarding Oils generally, look here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

From a reading of this article, it becomes clear that the measurements of oil viscosity are standardised at a measurement point of 100°C.
Exceeding this temperature (if you have an oil temperature gauge fitted), means that your 30 viscosity oil is no longer 30 viscosity but somewhat less.

What this means in practical terms is that your engine is no longer being adequately or properly lubricated ... This, in and of itself, is an argument for using (say) a 5W-40 oil in countries like Oz, and other parts of the world where ambient temperatures can be extremely high.

Synthetic oils are discussed here (synopsis):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil#Synthetic_oils

And here is a little more depth:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

Note particularly the "Advantages" and "Disadvantages" sections at the bottom of this last article. It would appear that there are very significant advantages for normal use (e.g. as motor oil for engines or gearbox/diff oils), with no disadvantages for motor vehicle use.

Roo2 is having its gearbox and diff oil changed in the near future. I will use FS oil. According to Ross (and the above articles), this should then last the life of the vehicle.